Yes , Mike, they should take it outside. Thanks.

Not going to engage in this debate. Dont have the time nor inclination. But just so you know, the bible is ALSO presented as literal truth to many Christians. Organized religion has a pretty poor track record through history.

Alonzo. You missed the point to argue about something that is a waste of time. The specifics of beliefs don’t matter. I was trying to point out to u that it is actions that matter. You and Miraldi should take this up between you in private as you are wasting eyeball time for everyone else at this point.

You asked:

“But frankly, why do you care? What difference does it make if someone thinks there is life on Mars?”

We’re not talking about just believing in life on Mars. Like bacteria in the surface ice or something.

We’re talking about an installation built by an alien civilization that is presently running 24/7 with live aliens in hot papa suits removing the memories of streams of earthling thetans who “report back” there when they die so that they pick up a new body on Earth with false memories of their previous lives.

It’s the prison installation that Planet Earth is part of, remember?

This is not just a belief in “life on Mars”, Mike.

Very different.

That’s what we are talking about. Let’s keep that as the specific LRH claim we are discussing.

OK?

Alanzo

Mike wrote:

“Alanzo, the problem is that logic and belief are fairly mutually exclusive. There is a lot outside the realm of the currently known physical sciences (though quantum physics is encroaching into that zone). You make the point that people can believe whatever they wish. So, why keep trying to convince people that they should NOT believe things. That they are illogical doesnt mean anything to someone that believes. It’s like trying to convince a fundamentalist Christian the world was not made in 6 days 6000 years ago.”

Great comment, Mike.

Faith was never part of the deal when we were being recruited into Scientology, remember?

Dianetics was a science, thoroughly tested on the order of the physical sciences, and Scientology was science applied to the spirit. Faith was not ever something we needed to have as Scientologists.

Most Scientologists will tell you that they do not believe in Scientology, they KNOW.

Therefore, logic should be able to be applied to Scientology by a Scientologist.

The funny thing is that, when logic and critical thinking are applied to Scientology, it falls apart.

“But there is more basis for the belief in DIanetics and Scientology as people do experience things subjectively — engrams for example. Fundamentalist Christians cannot claim they experienced the world being created in 6 days, that is PURE faith. But there is subjective personal experience to support faith in Dianetics and Scientology. So, your efforts fall on deaf ears.”

Actually, not many deaf ears at all. Over the years there have been countless Scientologists who, once they began examining the thought processes and the logic and decision-making they used to get themselves into Scientology, all realized that had they known then what they know today, they would have NEVER made the decisions they made to get their minds so entrenched in Scientology.

They realize that the information they were given to make decisions with to get more involved in Scn was either completely false, or was totally misleading.

Most Scientologists were tricked into becoming Scientologists, never having intended for any of this to have ended up like it has.

“But frankly, why do you care? What difference does it make if someone thinks there is life on Mars?”

I don’t know any Scientologists who signed up to be that stupid. All the Scientologists I know signed up to be able to use REASON and the CONTEMPLATION of OPTIMUM SURVIVAL.

Didn’t you?

What matters is what they DO.

Those affect others, by definition, and ACTIONS are susceptible to logical analysis, unlike beliefs and thoughts.

This is interesting, Mike. I’ve never looked at it this way.

How are ACTIONS susceptible to logical analysis, yet beliefs and thoughts are not?

It is my understanding that beliefs and thoughts cause actions, and that logical skills applied to beliefs and thoughts cause sustainable actions based on good decision making.

Please explain more about what you are saying. I’m interested in understanding more about your thoughts here.

How do you change peoples’ actions without changing their beliefs and thoughts?

Alanzo

There, he states the following:

“The original discovery of the image anomaly on Mars that is the focus of this project was made by Patrick Skipper and published on his web site http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com.”

The specific page n the above website that shows the NASA images and their official reference numbers is here: http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/evidence-reports/2001/029/huge_nozzle.htm ”

So again, the bottom line is that those photographs do exist – and that the perceptions of several proven remote viewers were in agreement as to further information regarding them.

To repeat, even though science can’t explain how remote viewing works, experiments using their own scientific protocol has shown that it does work – which is why even conservative groups like government agencies and police departments utilize their abilities.

Also, Al, I know you love to mock people, but it makes you look bad. In fact, it makes you look fat….headed. 😛

Alanzo, the problem is that logic and belief are fairly mutually exclusive. There is a lot outside the realm of the currently known physical sciences (though quantum physics is encroaching into that zone). You make the point that people can believe whatever they wish. So, why keep trying to convince people that they should NOT believe things. That they are illogical doesnt mean anything to someone that believes. It’s like trying to convince a fundamentalist Christian the world was not made in 6 days 6000 years ago. But there is more basis for the belief in DIanetics and Scientology as people do experience things subjectively — engrams for example. Fundamentalist Christians cannot claim they experienced the world being created in 6 days, that is PURE faith. But there is subjective personal experience to support faith in Dianetics and Scientology. So, your efforts fall on deaf ears. But frankly, why do you care? WHat difference does it make if someone thinks there is life on Mars? What matters is what they DO.

WHy not forget trying to change people’s beliefs and focus on changing actions.

Those affect others, by definition, and ACTIONS are susceptible to logical analysis, unlike beliefs and thoughts.

I think you would have more success.

Logic is used by the mind like a ladder, with one step leading to the next step, and the next, etc.

If one of the steps in the ladder of logic is false, the rest of the steps after that can lead to the wildest conclusions.

For instance:

1. All men are tall.

2. David Miscavige is a man

3. Therefore, David Miscavige is tall.

This is why it is important to question and to test the beliefs you have which act as steps in your ladder of reasoning, and which lead you to the conclusions and beliefs you hold.

The first step in accepting the Scientology worldview was presented in DMSMH: In its native state, the human mind is perfect.

The next step was: The reason our human minds are not perfect is because we have a reactive mind.

Therefore: if we erase our reactive minds, or human minds will be perfect again.

This step ladder led LRH to believing in implant stations on Mars and psychs from the planet Farsec.

If we rely on evidence to support the steps in the ladders of reasoning that we use, then we are less likely to end up on Mars.

A person can certainly believe whatever he chooses. But sooner or later, all Scientologists learn that beliefs that bankrupt you, or which end up destroying your family, or enslaving you in a fake Navy for the rest of your life, are not worth it.

Evidence.

Learn to evaluate it, and use it to support your reasoning.

Alanzo

Marildi, Sir!

Your Sea Org-style SRA has gotten my ethics in and shaped me right up.

Calling me a fundamentalist Christian for Q&Aing with the quality of the evidence that supports LRH’s claim for an implant station on Mars was total Dev-T, and I know that I am at least in Doubt, probably lower, for this overt.

Because of your handling, my ethics are totally in now and I just want to comply with no backflash and no slightest comm lag.

I watched the video you crammed me on and have fully duplicated the whole thing now.

Just for clarity though, so that I can make sure others in the group comply with you:

1. The gentleman in the video, Corey Brown, said the pictures were generated from the Mars Observer mission in 1992. The SP website Wikipedia reports that mission failed in 1993, 3 days prior to reaching orbit, with all communications lost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Observer

2. Since that mission there have been at least 20 more missions to Mars, with 3 rovers and multiple planet-wide mappings, yet Corey Brown never mentions any other physical corroboration of this photograph from any of those missions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_of_Mars

3. After Mr. Brown mentioned “military” and “government” throughout his presentation, at the very end of his video he had a disclaimer which said that none of this information was produced by any government agency. Why would Mr. Brown continually position himself with the military and the government throughout his talk if this was true?

I don’t want to look like I’m Qing & Aing here, sir, just trying to duplicate so that I can ensure others comply.

I guess what I am querying is that before we mortgage our houses and make our children sign billion year contracts here, sir, with all the missions to Mars in the last 20 years, even with 3 rovers on the planet and full high definition planet mappings, shouldn’t we have some kind of independent physical corroboration on LRH’s and Mr. Brown’s claims?

Or should we just trust our knowingness that this level of evidence is good enough to keep on believing LRH’s claim that an alien civilization runs an implant station on Mars where we all go to have our memories wiped out between lives?

So really. Is this evidence good enough to stake your mind and life on?

Don’t you respect yourself and the time you have on this planet more than this?

Isn’t life too short to waste it believing in bullshit like this, with such little evidence?

Alanzo