Why do you keep on defending him, Joe? He lied to us. Period. He lied like his feet stank. Excuses are for losers.

” “a person does not blow due Overts or Withholds. He blows only due to ARC BKs. “However, if any of this information ever became public, I would lose all control of the orgs and eventually Scientology as a whole.” Signed, LRH.”

Yes, this must be one of the most evil statements of his that I’ve ever read. When I think of all the trouble people have gotten into because of this, my mind boggles.

This quote and the one above, tell me everything I need to know about the man.

Disgusting.

So things have been getting bad in the church in recent years. Wonder if they have leveled off or if something unexpected is going to happen.

MEP, let us have it your way and decide the word, “control”, refers to influencing another person in a nefarious way. I might tell you the truth to influence you to your benefit therefore we won’t call it, “control”. Yet I might tell you the truth to influence you to your detriment and that we WILL call “control”. If I tell you a lie to conceal something embarrassing about myself resulting in no harm to you so you will like me. Should we call that “control”? In all cases I’m aiming to influence your thinking.

As per our agreed upon usage of the word, it appears my motives are what determines if there is “control”, not whether I’m speaking the truth or a lie.

My point is Hubbard made a lot of exotically worded pronouncements that SEEM like esoteric knowledge to the undiscriminating follower. His ‘revelations’ about lying and control 1. carried the IMPLIED meaning: “don’t listen to the suppressive outsiders” and, 2. served as reinforcement of the false impression Hubbard was a deep thinker who knew better than you about stuff.

I going to argue against you. When you tell the the truth and yes there are a lot of degrees. You are giving the person the information they need to make their own decision but when you lie to someone you are attempting to denying them the ability to make an informed decision thus you are trying to control them. The truth isn’t something you can use to control people. It simply is the truth. When I am honest with someone, I am not trying to control them. I am just informing them of facts which is what they need to be able to make a decision for themselves. A lie on the other hand is a tool of control. Now, obviously lying isn’t the only way to control people there is force, emotional blackmail, etc.

Old Timer
That is the best summation of what LRH was doing that I have ever read. It is the cog that you need to unlock your Scientology cell of obedience.

Damn AAA batteries! Why don’t they standardize things and make it easy? You mean, I’ve got to start it all over again, Book 1 page one? Aw well, at least I have an eternity to do it.
Sheesh! what are we talking about anyway?

Sorry! You need to start over…