Clearly not clear: “Boy there was something that wouldn’t have been allowed back when I was in….We get to discuss, dissent, rib and question each other, each other’s views and when it is handy quote lrh.”

So true! That’s one of the valuable lessons we learned – that we should speak up, and that NO ONE should have the authority to disallow discussion.

“I’m having more fun with the tech now than I ever did then.”

I can understand. In my own mind, there are at the least some parts of tech and admin that are valuable, and I see no rational reason to throw it all away. This is why discussion to sort it out is worthwhile.

And there’s a bonus – which is to learn how to discuss things calmly, honestly, and without bias or agenda. That’s the only way to have a valid discussion and come to valid conclusions. Thanks for your contribution!

?

I appreciate your valid viewpoint Marildi. And I appreciate Wynski. I even like the sparks that fly.
Boy there was something that wouldn’t have been allowed back when I was in.
The KR’s would have been flying over this back and forth, like fruit flies on last week’s peaches.
We get to discuss, dissent, rib and question each other, each other’s views and when it is handy quote lrh.
I’m having more fun with the tech now than I ever did then. And to think I thought it was a fun group and that helped stick me in.
The ex’s are a lot more fun and open with views, and what we really believe.

Yes Spike, let us connect. I hereby authorize Mike to give you my mail address-

Clearly not clear: “I don’t feel that my opinion and observations are empty and useless with no backing up of some quote or other about logic.”

I fully agree with you on that. However, Wynski wasn’t just giving his opinion. He made a claim about what was actually stated – and it was a false claim.

“This story I share is just to tell you that what Wynski said rattled me to the core in a very good way.”

Then I’m sincerely happy for you, and I don’t doubt what you say about your experience.

Based on my own experience, not all Sups and other staff handled students the way you described. I have experienced both good and bad handling, depending on the org and even individual staff members. My experience tells me that that what happened to you was the same kind of misapplication and alteration of the actual materials as what Wynski was doing, even if it was unknowingly and based on the misunderstanding of others.

Marildi, the reason what Wynski wrote was a mental sanity bath came from my empirical observations in retrospect to my time in the cult.
The most insanity producing moments occurred when studying the tech and policy. If I pointed out a logical fallacy to my mind in something I read, the sup said I had an MU, skipped gradient or had lack of mass. Or I had other fish to fry, or that I was weirdly fixating and complexifying something so simple. If I persisted, I was deemed ‘critical’ and went to Ethics.
For questioning what didn’t make sense to me. I was clearly already pretty messed up if I couldn’t see how wrong it was to have to do a lower ethics condition for asking questions.
Wanting to get through the course and wanting to have wins and learn, I turned my back on the illogic and demoed madly with my demo kit, situations where this could be true in life. I’d make shit up till it didn’t seem illogical, just a stretch.
I’d think, well lrh experienced it and understood it. So ergo I must too. He’s smarter than me and braver than me and has pierced the veil of terra incognita. So he must be right, right?
That was my experience over and over again. And it did not lead to happiness, it was the way to fantasy, uncertainty and a rock hard ‘certainty’ that lrh must be hecka smart and I must not be.
It also made it easier to make shit up in session.
For the record I studied some of his policy letters on investigation and found them complex and difficult and not helpful in sorting out problems and difficult situations.
I was in for 40 years, staff breifly. I studied a lot while in and trashed my books in an act of rage and rebellion once out.
Marildi, I know what I know and what I studied stifled my logical thinking abilities. Whether I have references or not my opinion matters to my healing from this mentally damaging experience.
I don’t have references to hand as my very expensive materials are covered in bird shit at the dump. I don’t feel that my opinion and observations are empty and useless with no backing up of some quote or other about logic.
Just like quoting the bible, you can find a quote to fit most arguments.
I don’t want to fight you.
This story I share is just to tell you that what Wynski said rattled me to the core in a very good way.
You never know what will illuminate a shadowed place you thought wasn’t there. Then someone says something, and the light shines into shadow and you see newly with a burst of happiness. At that moment you have the win of realization of truth for you. That is what Wynsky gave me.

olegerstrom, what I see are a few SMTP servers and a couple websites. I see no actual orgs. Pics of all the buildings where the orgs are including addresses. No private residences pls.

p.s. since you claim THOUSANDS of active members in Russia going up the bridge. A pic of a few hundred together should be a piece of cake. Unless you are a liar that is.

Hello olegerstrom – thanks for the info. Would like to hook up via email. If you are ok with this, perhaps Mike Rinder can put us together.

And I repeat: RONS ORG IN RUSSIA,
At this link https://ronsorg.com/register-of-members/
you can see, that there are 17 Rons Orgs in Russia, and 6 in the other former Sovjet territories. Even KAZAKHSTAN has a Rons Org.

The big thetan who got all this moving is Max Hauri of Switzerland. His home base is:
https://ronsorg.ch/en/
Russia is that country in the world, where people by the thousands blow all case and go OT.
They have no fancy buildings, and no command structure. They study the materials and grab the meter. When the case is blown, you can forget the meter, and go spiritual. Yesterday I discovered, that I have amazing clairvoyant abilities.

Nope. You are the one who has no quote to back up your false claims. Either that or you have completely twisted the meaning of what was actually said. Wouldn’t be the first time.

Now, if I were Wynski at this point I would say something like – prove what you’re saying or admit you are criminally insane. That’s Wynski logic! LOL