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	<title>
	Comments on: Flag OTC Minutes	</title>
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	<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/</link>
	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:13:58 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: MJ		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-40134</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=17042#comment-40134</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-40132&quot;&gt;deElizabethan&lt;/a&gt;.

The simplest way I can express it - DM has perverted Scientology.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-40132">deElizabethan</a>.</p>
<p>The simplest way I can express it &#8211; DM has perverted Scientology.</p>
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		<title>
		By: deElizabethan		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-40132</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deElizabethan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=17042#comment-40132</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes, Clearwater downtown is dead now as I drive it occasionally. It&#039;s like a real retreat or rather as I call it, they&#039;re in a prison .]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Clearwater downtown is dead now as I drive it occasionally. It&#8217;s like a real retreat or rather as I call it, they&#8217;re in a prison .</p>
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		<title>
		By: MJ		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39703</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2014 23:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=17042#comment-39703</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39696&quot;&gt;remoteviewed&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for that remoteviewed.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39696">remoteviewed</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for that remoteviewed.</p>
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		<title>
		By: remoteviewed		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39698</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[remoteviewed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2014 23:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=17042#comment-39698</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39339&quot;&gt;MJ&lt;/a&gt;.

Things are so different from when I first arrived in LA  at the the Old Imperial Airport and carried a Dianetics book as a recognition signal like I was part of some covert op ;)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39339">MJ</a>.</p>
<p>Things are so different from when I first arrived in LA  at the the Old Imperial Airport and carried a Dianetics book as a recognition signal like I was part of some covert op 😉</p>
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		<title>
		By: remoteviewed		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39697</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[remoteviewed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2014 23:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=17042#comment-39697</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39356&quot;&gt;The Oracle&lt;/a&gt;.

That&#039;s interesting Oracle what&#039;s the background or &quot;skinny&quot; on this Scientology calling for a hit on a cop?

Enquiring minds want to know.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39356">The Oracle</a>.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s interesting Oracle what&#8217;s the background or &#8220;skinny&#8221; on this Scientology calling for a hit on a cop?</p>
<p>Enquiring minds want to know.</p>
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		<title>
		By: remoteviewed		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39696</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[remoteviewed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2014 23:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=17042#comment-39696</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39527&quot;&gt;FOTF2012&lt;/a&gt;.

FOTF2012

Many of the talking points you&#039;ve listed as &quot;lies&quot; can be disputed.

For instance what many Geologists say happened 75 Million Years ago is solely based on theory.

Again whether there any such thing as Clear or OT Abilities first is subjective even so there is objective scientific evidence to support such a &quot;claim&quot;:

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~jutts/UttsStatPsi.pdf

http://www.dojopsi.info/stargateCIAdocs/

Hubbard already acknowledged his sources for Dianetics and later Scientology in his earlier editions of Science of Survival.

Regarding Hubbard&#039;s biography this is an hotly disputed area and actually one that has no or little bearing on the validity of the subject itself nor on its workability or possible lack of workability.

As far as I&#039;m concerned it is nothing but a straw man &quot;argument&quot;.

Also the Citizens Commission on Human Rights says right on its logo that it is &quot;sponsored by the Church of Scientology&quot; and has said so since it was first established in 1969.

Autopsy of Lisa McPherson concluded her death was due to criminal neglect and physical abuse.

The above if you ever bothered to study the subject you criticize are not part of any Scientology procedure that exists.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39527">FOTF2012</a>.</p>
<p>FOTF2012</p>
<p>Many of the talking points you&#8217;ve listed as &#8220;lies&#8221; can be disputed.</p>
<p>For instance what many Geologists say happened 75 Million Years ago is solely based on theory.</p>
<p>Again whether there any such thing as Clear or OT Abilities first is subjective even so there is objective scientific evidence to support such a &#8220;claim&#8221;:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ics.uci.edu/~jutts/UttsStatPsi.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.ics.uci.edu/~jutts/UttsStatPsi.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.dojopsi.info/stargateCIAdocs/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.dojopsi.info/stargateCIAdocs/</a></p>
<p>Hubbard already acknowledged his sources for Dianetics and later Scientology in his earlier editions of Science of Survival.</p>
<p>Regarding Hubbard&#8217;s biography this is an hotly disputed area and actually one that has no or little bearing on the validity of the subject itself nor on its workability or possible lack of workability.</p>
<p>As far as I&#8217;m concerned it is nothing but a straw man &#8220;argument&#8221;.</p>
<p>Also the Citizens Commission on Human Rights says right on its logo that it is &#8220;sponsored by the Church of Scientology&#8221; and has said so since it was first established in 1969.</p>
<p>Autopsy of Lisa McPherson concluded her death was due to criminal neglect and physical abuse.</p>
<p>The above if you ever bothered to study the subject you criticize are not part of any Scientology procedure that exists.</p>
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		<title>
		By: FOTF2012		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39527</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FOTF2012]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2014 03:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=17042#comment-39527</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39326&quot;&gt;remoteviewed&lt;/a&gt;.

Re MJ&#039;s Beatles rewrite -- that made me smile (thanks MJ). 

I had just been thinking that Scientology had let itself become the Church of Lies: 

-- Hubbard&#039;s life history (childhood, travels, military record, academic background, diploma mill PhD for awhile, number of marriages, children, etc.).  
-- The sources of Dianetics and Scientology. 
-- The claims (increased IQ, 100% standard results, OT abilities, Clear abilities, etc.) 
-- The policies (no disconnection, no fair game, etc.)
-- The circumstances of Hubbard&#039;s deterioration, mental state, and cause of death. 
-- Narconon results and links to Scientology. 
-- Applied Scholastics and links to Scientology.
-- Citizens Commission on Human Rights and links to Scientology. 
-- Criminon results and links to Scientology. 
-- Purification mechanisms and results, and lack of safety and efficacy evidence. 
-- Claims about Mars, Venus, Van Allen Belt, faster than light travel, etc. 
-- Volcanoes that did not exist 75 million years ago. 
-- Activities of Guardian&#039;s Office and the Office of Special Affairs.
-- RPF and The Hole. 
-- Adverse effects experienced by many (from McPherson to less severe). 
-- Claiming that required donations are not fees for service. 
-- SP declares. 
-- Production statistics (auditing and training replaced with materialistic aims). 
-- Priest-penitent privilege and protection of confidentiality. 

A Church that has gone this far away from its purported integrity is on the fast track to bigger and bigger trouble. 

So MJ is right on: &quot;Hey! you’ve got to hide the truth away.&quot; 

Or you could do as someone like Mark &quot;Marty&quot; Rathbun advised: tell the truth so it becomes part of your past -- and evolve!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39326">remoteviewed</a>.</p>
<p>Re MJ&#8217;s Beatles rewrite &#8212; that made me smile (thanks MJ). </p>
<p>I had just been thinking that Scientology had let itself become the Church of Lies: </p>
<p>&#8212; Hubbard&#8217;s life history (childhood, travels, military record, academic background, diploma mill PhD for awhile, number of marriages, children, etc.).<br />
&#8212; The sources of Dianetics and Scientology.<br />
&#8212; The claims (increased IQ, 100% standard results, OT abilities, Clear abilities, etc.)<br />
&#8212; The policies (no disconnection, no fair game, etc.)<br />
&#8212; The circumstances of Hubbard&#8217;s deterioration, mental state, and cause of death.<br />
&#8212; Narconon results and links to Scientology.<br />
&#8212; Applied Scholastics and links to Scientology.<br />
&#8212; Citizens Commission on Human Rights and links to Scientology.<br />
&#8212; Criminon results and links to Scientology.<br />
&#8212; Purification mechanisms and results, and lack of safety and efficacy evidence.<br />
&#8212; Claims about Mars, Venus, Van Allen Belt, faster than light travel, etc.<br />
&#8212; Volcanoes that did not exist 75 million years ago.<br />
&#8212; Activities of Guardian&#8217;s Office and the Office of Special Affairs.<br />
&#8212; RPF and The Hole.<br />
&#8212; Adverse effects experienced by many (from McPherson to less severe).<br />
&#8212; Claiming that required donations are not fees for service.<br />
&#8212; SP declares.<br />
&#8212; Production statistics (auditing and training replaced with materialistic aims).<br />
&#8212; Priest-penitent privilege and protection of confidentiality. </p>
<p>A Church that has gone this far away from its purported integrity is on the fast track to bigger and bigger trouble. </p>
<p>So MJ is right on: &#8220;Hey! you’ve got to hide the truth away.&#8221; </p>
<p>Or you could do as someone like Mark &#8220;Marty&#8221; Rathbun advised: tell the truth so it becomes part of your past &#8212; and evolve!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Marti Carlson		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39465</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marti Carlson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2014 18:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=17042#comment-39465</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was thoroughly entrenched in the Flag OT Committee a very long time, as both Dir Comm and Stats I/C.  
 
Mike noted: &quot;Their stats are clearly false — total OTC members on service went from 62 to 202 in one week, but only 31 started anything?&quot;
 
For anyone knowing the data series, a stat jump like that begs the question, &quot;What made that happen.&quot;  Here&#039;s my take from my many years experience with the group.  Annually just before LRH&#039;s birthday or Maiden Voyage celebration, there was a major push to get members to report backlogged stats that would be lumped on one week, the end result being &quot;highest evers.&quot;  Not exactly standard stat keeping.  That&#039;s a good guess at explaining the surge in the &quot;members on service&quot; jumping from 62 to 202.  
 
As Dir Comm, I had the OT Committee lists for emailing comm, i.e. the minutes, to the group.  The lists through time ranged from between 300-400 people.   So these minutes report 98% - or 202 members - on service.  So, if my math is correct, that would mean that there were only 206 on the list of members.  That&#039;s a pretty hefty decline from the 300-400 that were on the list when I was involved.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was thoroughly entrenched in the Flag OT Committee a very long time, as both Dir Comm and Stats I/C.  </p>
<p>Mike noted: &#8220;Their stats are clearly false — total OTC members on service went from 62 to 202 in one week, but only 31 started anything?&#8221;</p>
<p>For anyone knowing the data series, a stat jump like that begs the question, &#8220;What made that happen.&#8221;  Here&#8217;s my take from my many years experience with the group.  Annually just before LRH&#8217;s birthday or Maiden Voyage celebration, there was a major push to get members to report backlogged stats that would be lumped on one week, the end result being &#8220;highest evers.&#8221;  Not exactly standard stat keeping.  That&#8217;s a good guess at explaining the surge in the &#8220;members on service&#8221; jumping from 62 to 202.  </p>
<p>As Dir Comm, I had the OT Committee lists for emailing comm, i.e. the minutes, to the group.  The lists through time ranged from between 300-400 people.   So these minutes report 98% &#8211; or 202 members &#8211; on service.  So, if my math is correct, that would mean that there were only 206 on the list of members.  That&#8217;s a pretty hefty decline from the 300-400 that were on the list when I was involved.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ASHAMAN		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39461</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ASHAMAN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2014 18:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=17042#comment-39461</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39353&quot;&gt;chrismann&lt;/a&gt;.

You&#039;re right. It was only because I was away from the subject for 20 years and hungry that I was able to finish. Also, I had a bit of win after studying all that LRH (despite the edits on both books and lectures). I could see the glaring outpoints all around. It helped with my decision to leave.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39353">chrismann</a>.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right. It was only because I was away from the subject for 20 years and hungry that I was able to finish. Also, I had a bit of win after studying all that LRH (despite the edits on both books and lectures). I could see the glaring outpoints all around. It helped with my decision to leave.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Valerie		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/flag-otc-minutes/#comment-39446</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Valerie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2014 17:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=17042#comment-39446</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[SRD Jack Dirmann.  That has to really chap his ass.  The guy who recruited me for Sea Org in the 70s, the man who was married to the CO of ASHO, Irene Howey in the 70s the man who was an insider on the Reed Slatkin fraud gets to attest to the lowly SRD 40 FREAKING YEARS LATER?????????????????????????????????  How can he still be in the bubble?  That just blows my mind that he would even be willing to re re re re start his bridge to do that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SRD Jack Dirmann.  That has to really chap his ass.  The guy who recruited me for Sea Org in the 70s, the man who was married to the CO of ASHO, Irene Howey in the 70s the man who was an insider on the Reed Slatkin fraud gets to attest to the lowly SRD 40 FREAKING YEARS LATER?????????????????????????????????  How can he still be in the bubble?  That just blows my mind that he would even be willing to re re re re start his bridge to do that.</p>
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