Basketball Jane, I tried to respond to you but there was no way to hook my comment to your post, so hope you get this. I think bringing gay issues to the media is a great way to get light shined on Dm’s prison at Int and on the whole mess. I think you have the basis for a good lawsuit against him. You were RPFed in inhumane conditions BECAUSE you were gay and he was homophobic. That would be a good lawsuit and keeping DM tied up in lawsuits is the way to go. But more importantly, it will bring media attention on it and maybe even start an investigation into The Hole. Please consider a lawsuit?

Hi Natural Philosopher, ahhh, yes I remember that fantastic midnight bus ride. I wouldn’t have traded my seat on that bus ride for anything, lol. I was in the first sweep of 100 people bound for “offload” in I think late Dec 2003. Happy times, happy times, lol.

Thanks guys and gals! The support is appreciated. And I hope soon for you ScnEthics that you can come out from under. I spent a while like that. It is harder than just being out. I got my whole family out. You can too.

Very well expressed. Thank you for your contributions. Real help is always welcome and appreciated.

Narconon is a “bootstrap” program. It is viable for addicts who want to stop being addicts who don’t have medical hindrances that require medical care. Since 1966 there have been changes in the behavior of addicts with lots of new drugs finding their way into the mix. For quite some time, medical care is often needed in an addict’s initial withdrawal. This is not a Narconon service. However, medical detox is often too rapid and the addict is left mentally jonesing even if physically no longer dependent. Narconon drug-free withdrawal fits in here very well. When done compassionately, Narconon withdrawal helps a person to sleep normally, tolerate food like a regular person and have a clear enough mind to start pulling up those bootstraps.

@ scnethics @basketballjane All good points, thanks. I guess the thing that most knocks me out is how they are able to get away with the RPF and The Hole, and the gay angle seems like it would be a great way to highlight both. Just trying to see the issue through the eyes of the average guy who isn’t paying that close attention – doesn’t read these blogs, etc. The fact that The Hole / RPF exists at all is mind boggling. How does the governor of California allow such a flagrant violation of all human rights and American constitutional freedoms like this in his state? I get it if the local sherrifs etc are paid off – but everybody?

Thank you both for your replys, it’s an interesting discussion! And Scnethics: good luck and God-speed on your upcoming “break”!

@Basketballjane, @justpassingby (and others)
With new anti-gay legislation in Uganda, which could spread to other parts of the anti-gay continent of Africa, and with many churches in the US being openly homophobic, it’s not as sensational to people as it should be that yet another kooky church discriminates against and punishes people for being gay. It’s not that I don’t think it’s a good idea – I can see your point, and I think that it’s a VERY good idea for people with experiences like this to organize and try to bring the media’s attention to the issue – I just don’t see this as something that will severely damage the church. Few are joining this crappy cult, and very few sheeple will hear this story, and if they do, they’ll squash it just like they do everything else negative they stumble upon (just like I did).

Now if you have the basis for another lawsuit

@Basketballjane, I’m an under the radar anti-scientologist, still in good standing, working on a way to make a break and bring some folks along with me if I can.

Yes, I believe so. She was also related to the famous explorer, Shackleton. But did not have the same survival instincts…

@Basketballjane (&scnethics) – I’m just observing from the sidelines with no direct experience in Scientology, but it does seem like a movement of former gay church members with stories like Basketballjane’s would be a real eye-opener for a lot of people. There’s a big difference in the mind of the average American between someone voluntarily subjecting themselves to an abusive “religion” (“if that’s what they want “…”live and let live”…”all religions are nutty”…) and minorities being persecuted. The former is very hard to campaign against – after all, what could be more American than the right to throw your life away by joining an abusive cult? BUT the latteris a ready-made media friendly understandable issue – what could be more anti-American than being thrown into a concentration camp (RPF) for being gay?

This is an era when the entire culture is turning a corner on how they think about gay issues. Forget the 24 hour cable news caricature of the extreme bible-thumping, fire-breathing anti-gay bigot. Most middle-American average regular people, who maybe 10 or 20 years ago thought of gays as strange people who lived in San Francisco and New York City, have evoloved quite a bit. The gay dads on Modern Family are America’s most beloved TV couple since Lucy & Desi. America’s favorite lesbian is hosting the Oscars. The military has opened up to gays with little or no problems. Things are changing (of course there’s still prejudice, but you know what I’m saying). In general, I don’t think most people in the country are going to look favorably on forced imprisonment of homosexuals. Certainly not the media and Hollywood.

I really think this issue – gays being forced into a slave labor camp for being gay – is so stunning, so impossible to rationalize, it could be The Big Issue this movement needs.

It’s real Third Reich stuff happening right now in the USA!