Actually we support background checks, and support making govt agencies having a mandatory reporting of their records, which most states and military bodies oppose.

What we oppose is mandatory checks on private sales which would result in a defacto gun registration, which we vehemetly oppose.

The NICS system is a mandatory check that every FFL dealer must complete before a firearm transfer. States and governmental bodies are NOT required to submit their data, leaving the database incomplete.

Mandatory for us, optional for govt and military, = completely flawed system.

Do you begin to see our frustration with gun control proposals that ‘sound reasonable’ but in execution are horribly flawed?

Wynski, you are very dear to me 🙂 Again, I agree. I didn’t say that Evangelical Christians voted Trump IN. Or else, I didn’t intend to say that, and perhaps my language was unclear.

What I MEANT was that Evangelical Christians were and are his CORE base. They put him over the edge to become the Republican nominee.

They weren’t enough to get him elected once it was between him and Hillary and you’re absolutely right that many Dems REALLY didn’t like Hillary – many of them Millenials – who, when Bernie didn’t get the nomination, picked up their marbles and went home, didn’t vote.

And given how many Millenials I personally know who refused to vote and would have voted for Bernie if he had been the nominee, I would agree that he very likely would have been President if he had been the nominee. The many young kids I know (and I work with them so I know them) ADORED Bernie! Go figure 🙂

Well, for one thing, they’re up to their necks in student loan debt, starting from the age of 22. But that’s another subject.

Jenny, I just returned to the blog and read your post above and I just want to hug you right now!

Understood and agreed on all, and thank you for reminding me of what I often preach and God help me, I do mean “preach” to others:

“…its that when we stop looking at any group of people as individuals who each deserve to be treated with dignity & that each individual person and life is precious and unique …then if feels like we do the same thing Co$ does in devaluing the individual then that’s where it becomes easier to judge and dismiss”.

Jenny, I believe with my whole heart and soul in what you said here, and I needed it pointed out to me that my language of late has not reflected this.

I do wrestle with a kind of automatic prejudice against the group amorphously called, “the Christian Right”.

It isn’t analytical. Its emotional. Long and boring story as to why. “Why” isn’t important. Its all stupid.

Analytically, I know its wrong. Analytically, I know its unfair and unhelpful and inaccurate. And stupid. Not to mention, hypocritical.

After all, I can’t go around sounding off about intolerance while reserving the right to be intolerant myself!

I can’t rant against painting groups with a broad brush and do the same thing!

So, Jenny, don’t apologize because you just helped me a lot.

You are you,a unique and caring individual, and a good kind persona and there are lots of good,kind,caring individuals in your group, and there are bad people in every group..

Thank you for reminding me of this truth.and,again, last but not least, I’m glad you’re here.

I’m leaning more towards Dippinshitter MacCrappy making a large, possibly secret, donation to Trump to make the situation go away.

Absolutely agree. Religious people affiliated with organized religion abhor the practices of COS but believe it will be the first domino to fall, and that the anti-scientology crowd is a few ex-COS members covering a larger group of atheists and agnostics who want to take away IRS protection for every religion.

There was absolutely a buzz of fear running though this crowd with the rumor that Leah Remini was going to move to Jehovah’s Witnesses next, and I am glad that Mike Rinder put that rumor to bed.

I think Chris Shelton thinks that he is tapped out as far as COS goes, and has moved to Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons. All he is doing is diluting the message that brought him subscribers in the first place, and representing himself as an expert on critical thinking with respect to faith– he is up against youtubers who spent decades honing their expertise on this area while he spent decades in the Sea Org.

I appreciate that & no, I didn’t take it as thinking you’d said other churches don’t do good works (you’ve actually said the opposite many times about CO$ not being a “church” because they do NOT do the good things others do) I reread & realized my post sounded like I took it that way. I meant to just comment on why I get so disgusted w/their end of year push for donations while other churches/religions are helping others. (All the churches I’ve worked with use a June-June fiscal year because Christmas is such a busy outreach time.)

Reading your follow-up post about relatives & experiences you’ve had helps me also see what you’ve experienced & yeah, sadly I’ve met a Some Christians that don’t want to open that can of worms – usually the ones that follow the celebrity pastors who do much of the same personal enrichment crap that DM does.

Thankfully I’ve been at churches with pastors like the one in Clearwater that Mike’s become friends with who will openly speak out against CO$ (ours even mentioned it in a sermon & how we should all be loud & help work against any cult or organization abusing people, esp in the name of religion) and other abusive cults and aren’t closed minded & bigoted as, sadly, some of the loudest ones out there are the ones who twist the Bible & what the message is supposed to be to support their own twisted prejudices & few things bother me, as a Christian, than people like that (Pat Robertson anyone?!?! Vomit!) and for people like that, I truly apologize!

Just please know that though a lot of “us” do & say things that are the opposite of love & grace, most of us aren’t like that. I’m willing to do ANYthing to see these guys lose their tax-exempt status & wouldn’t support or submit to any pastor or leadership that would fear speaking out or hide while something like the CO$ exists simply to protect their own interests! And I’m sincerely sorry for all those that use the excuse of being a Christian to hide or avoid addressing this horrible abuse head-on. That’s not the Jesus I’ve learned about – He was flipping over tables in the temple of people taking advantage of people & spoke out against the leaders of his own religions at the time (Judaism – the Pharisees) who were being legalistic & classifying the poor, the sick, etc. as unclean or less… so when I hear of people using that as an EXCUSE for anyone to be abused, taken advantage of, lied to, etc… it disgusts me in a way I don’t have words to express… I’m SO sorry! I just do hear a lot of people grouping all Christians together, just like they do with Muslims, Scientologists, etc… and if there’s anything I’ve learned here & at Tony’s blog, it’s that when we stop looking at any group of people as individuals who each deserve to be treated with dignity & that each individual person & life is precious and unique… then it feels like we do the same thing CO$ does in devaluing the individual then that’s where it becomes easier to judge & dismiss.

I absolutely respect (so much) what you’ve been through, how you feel for people still suffering from the mind-f%*k and especially how you speak out about it all! So that’s where I get bummed because I totally get why anyone who’s experienced CO$ would be disgusted by organized religion in general! My faith is everything to me, but I respect everyone’s right to believe (or not) and truly HATE the abuses & DO want to help.

I just feel sometimes the anger & disgust people feel towards their CO$ experiences cause the assumption that anyone involved in religion of any kind is deluded, brainwashed or unwilling/unable to speak out when we see something wrong. I just know that’s not my reality or the reality of most people I know.
(Sorry for the rant/novel!)

Aqua, Trump wasn’t voted in by Evangelical Christians. The tipping point demographic wise were Democrats who crossed over (or stayed home) in states that have been Dem (Wisconsin & Florida for instance). Due to disappointment with the prior 8 years. Also those Dems who REALLY didn’t like Hillary. If Bernie had been the nominee he probably would have won. So, it wasn’t the Evangelical Christians as they would not have voted Dem no matter who ran.