FP, your argument is very weak.

You’re responding to what I’ve listed as LRH’s crimes with “whataboutism”, i.e., “what about” psychiatry and all its crimes, what about all the harm the pharmaceutical industry has done,

Sure, there are tremendous crimes emanating from those quarters. No argument there. But to use someone or some other organizations crimes as a response to my questions to you about LRH’s actual crimes is a deflection because LRH’s crimes are his crimes, and psychiatry’s crimes are its crimes, and my crimes are mine, and yours are yours, etc. etc.

“Whataboutism” resolves nothing and is a deflection and a non confront and as such is unworthy of you, IMO.

I’m a Data Series Evaluator, Foolproof. I loved that course. Took to it like a duck to water. Every day I try to use what I learned in that course, mostly because I love that data and its fun for me – analyzing data, separating fact from opinion, pulling threads, finding Why’s – its fun for me and it’s also pretty helpful in life.

LRH did what he did, good and bad. Consider this: if one is unwilling or unable to confront outpoints – for whatever reasons – if one refuses to deal with outpoints which are staring one in the face, then, long story short, one will never, ever achieve an Ideal Scene. And that’s LRH, Foolproof. Think about it.

Aqua, if you consider those things you listed as crimes and if that is all you can come up with for 70 odd years of Scientology and Hubbard’s existence then I think you should take a look at a few crime series on TV followed by researching how many people have actually been killed or ruined by psychiatry and the pharmaceutical industry – Scientology’s main enemies.No doubt Wynski will now splurge forth with another long list of similar nonsense, but I mean really Aqua – “crimes”? You’ve been reading too much nonsense on here where everything (piffling) and “bad” is blown up out all proportion. Next it will be “LRH kicked a dog when he was 12!” (shocked and stunned gasps from the audience). Or how about “LRH pulled a girl’s hair at school!”? Shocking!

Sorry to be so blunt, but well…

Thanks, Wynski, but your remark to me about FP didn’t come across as critical of Me at all. Of FP, um, yeah 🙂 but not of me.

In fact, your remark served as a trigger warning to me that FP’s sudden reappearance was going to incite our blog version of “Shootout At The OK Corral”, or “High Noon” which was my cue to channel my inner Grace Kelly and just let The Men shoot it out 🙂

My response to you about FP ended up being longer than first intended.. Somehow it morphed into a treatise wherein I was explaining certain things to you – thoughts I’d never written down before, and because I was still formulating them I was explaining them to you and explaining them to myself at the same time.

Are you the best, or what? 🙂

Thanks for your detailed and considered reply, FP. I was curious about you. Thanks for confirming you’re not OSA. Understood on all you’ve shared. Couple of things, though: I was not expressing fear of you in my post. As I explained to Wynski, I merely wanted to confine our comm at that time to my specific question You see, I used to believe that LRH’s toxic policies (Disconnection, Fair Game, Attack Never Defend”) had nothing to do with me or the LRH tech that benefited me a great deal when I was in. Today, my thinking has evolved to where I consider those policies to have been like someone injecting a few cancer cells into a healthy organism. The disease takes time to manifest. What was toxic in Scientology so many years ago was in germinal form and not apparent to many of us. The same man who formulated the workable stuff also succumbed to violating his own workable precepts by formulating and enforcing cruel policies ostensibly to protect him and Scientology. As for “Always Attack, Never Defend”, that modus operendi works ONLY when the person or organization being attacked has clean hands. When the “attackee” is innocent. The Church of Scientology has long had dirty hands, going back before Miscavige. As for LRH’s crimes, off the top of my head, there was the persecution of Paulette Cooper and trying to frame her, there was Operation Snow White wherein GO members were jailed including Mary Sue, and then , in my opinion, his worst crime, the one that did him in, which was letting Mary Sue take the full rap. Its just my opinion but I think that’s what did him in – denying his knowledge of Scientology’s IRS break in. These were crimes, Foolproof. That they were crimes does not take away from what he created that was good and healthy and helpful, but, these crimes, and their necessary covering ups (read: solutions) created more problems, needing more lies as solutions, creating more problems…its HIS tech you know, which played out in his own life and in his creations. Metaphorically, its the cancer cells he injected into the healthy organism which steadily grew and grew and…well, you get the idea. That’s my 2, anyway.

I hear you, Mike. FPs a healthy presence IMO too. In my neck of the woods – its not my ethnic slang, but in my neck of the woods, he’d would be called a “pot stirrer” 🙂

Thanks, Cece and Brian.

GO at this time was already rotten.

Very true. But that WAS scientology — a very important part of it, despite the efforts subsequently to claim it had nothing to do with “real” scientology. The GO was the product of Hubbard’s need to have and defeat enemies. If he actually believed what he wrote in “My Philosophy” the GO would never have exited. Now would the policies that called for Fair Game, the destruction of enemies and harassment of those who did not agree with him.

The Church and Miscavige are simply not Scientology. It’s misrepresentation. To a certain degree Scientology was taken over by who the hell I don’ know.
Scientology in the 1970 was huge and friendly (for me as a public) and I experienced a lot of wins in auditing and training. I learned to listen. Any person delivering psychotherapy should know about auditor’s code and comm cycle. And should have his TR0 in
GO at this time was already rotten.

Haha – no sorry I don’t frequent such sites as they are full of obscure psychiatric terms (and lunatics!) Just joking! And bitter – moi?