Aqua –

Spot on. A Class VIII mentioned to me, or told me, years ago that Scn was not set up to handle OT’s who rolled in. Take it or leave it, but I think his point was that you can have some guy who’s more aware, who will not get run on processes that are designed for (let’s call them) “near-OT’s”. And their auditors may not be able to handle the level of awareness to make the PC (pre-OT) feel understood, or keep up with them. The books like Advanced Procedures and Axioms, and Creation of Human Ability, plus the Scn 0-8 through 8-8008 had approaches that are not, to my knowledge, run on new PC’s. I thought what you posted was exactly sequitur to what I said, even as disorganized as mine was.

I found that admin scales are really the be-do-have of life, and integrate or relate (either way) one person’s many activities with other people’s many activities. I still say those are the most powerful collection of a dozen words or so in any language. The scale is the logic of any activity, and honest, I’m not sure LRH realized what he had, when he slapped it together, how far-reaching it is. One person I intro’d to them finally got back to me when I asked, and said words to the effect that what was on an admin scale was what she did naturally every day. So I just said, good! – that was the point I was making, and that with admin scales you can look at it all and maybe organize better, spot illogics in one’s games, understand others games better, and have more fun.

(My internet was down, so sorry for the delay posting back.)

or in Hubbard dogma, good roads and fair weather handling is what defuses SP family.

(And later I realized good roads/fair weather talk is really “do unto others, as you want them to do to you” which is ancient common sense; I’d first thought that “using the tech, and it would protect you” applies also to using good roads/fair weather on them who considered me SP and it would work to overcome their mentality.)

When I went to an anti cult conference in Hamburg in 2007, I tried chum it up with OSA people outside, they were nice back to me in conversation:

http://chuckbeatty77.webs.com/Two%20German%20DSAs,%20Hamburg,%20Apr%2007.jpg

http://chuckbeatty77.webs.com/German%20DSA%20Frank,%20Hamburg,%2007.jpg

The emotion part of human brains gets activated by sincere well meaning human interaction and that overrides rational (irrational training) thought.

🙂

Got it, Harvey. Well, since you’re going with “under”, you deserve high odds. Just know that this is a bet I would gladly lose.

Hi Nickname,

Concerning your thoughts and interesting questions, I’ll share what came to my mind. Now, I’m not OT and fairly low on the Bridge so this may well not be satisfactory for you, but its the best I’ve got.

When I did KTL I had a 2-part win that as thetans, immortal beings, each of us innately had all the power that could be needed and wanted to be, do or have anything. Each of us could decide what we wanted to be as individuals. Each of us natively had the power to be each other, groups, etc. Each of us could also change anything and/or disappear anything and then create it or them again. And last but not least, each of us has always lived and would always live, in bodies, or without bodies. Immortality has no end, and as such, its has no beginning. Just another way of saying “infinity”. This was part 1 of this win.

Now, experiencing this, you’d think I would have felt wonderful, gloriously uplifted, etc. But what I experienced was alarm! My first reaction was a protest: “No! How boring! An eternity of this would be AWFUL! I wouldn’t want everything to be so EASY – for ETERNITY…Why, I’d go out of my mind!”

And, with these thoughts came part 2 of the win, that, if I knew I had all this power, all this perfection, if really knew that I knew everything and was actually proving it to myself and others and watching others prove that they also knew everything and also had total power and perfection the boredom would be exscrutiating and I’d have to do something, somehow, if only pretend, that I didn’t know everything, couldn’t as is everything, create anything whenever I wanted…you get the idea. I’d have to create some disabilities in myself and/or others, just to make things interesting.

So, part 2 was that I create games, we each of us create games which have as their component parts knowingness and unknowingness, freedoms and barriers, abilities and disabilities, goals and purposes, and this is what living life is.

I think that as thetans there is “I” and there is “we” depending upon the viewpoint looked from at any given time. I do believe we can be the dynamics and that its a matter of decision. It makes sense to me, but its way easier said than done. Having bodies can make it extremely difficult to be others because obviously one body is not another body and they’re separate, and if pain and emotions make you forget that you’re not this body, you just have it, then it can be and frequently is very confusing.

Well, I suspect I’ve gone far afield and at this point have no idea if this even pertains, let alone answers what you have shared, so I’d better stopI 🙂

Damn right it is!

You and me both, brother, you and me both. I tell my wife our mirrors are defective! That can’t possibly be my face!

Thanks for your reply Aquamarine. So you’re obviously going with the over…..me, I think I’ll take the under, but what do I know I’m just an inveterate gambler.

Aqua –

I could edit this, and make it a lot more readable, but I thought I’d just leave the train of thought first draft, so you can see that.

Ultimately and really, everyone imprisons themselves. People have published books and gone on lecture tours on the general subject of Positive Thinking (seeing opportunity, being constructive, etc.). The R6 Bank sits there (dichotomies) and pushes back. So auditing looks for the reasons underpinning that. [“What is ‘that’?”, is a big question with many-sided answers, e.g. Scn rudiments.] If the decision TO BE is forever, then does it follow that the notion and practicality of “WE” also is forever?

Maybe you (or someone) can explain the part other than oneself alone. Others do exist. I honestly get confused on this. Practically, I ignore it in everyday life. I can meet my responsibilities, with the annoying limitations that bodies begin a decay after about the age of 24-28, and get what we call “old”. Backs curve, hair goes white, skin wrinkles, healing slows, and eventually, the biological system fails. We call it “death” and take it for granted, or for inevitable, but I’m not sure anyone really understands why cells don’t reproduce with the same energy and strength (or even more, gaining from experience). Other civilizations had non-decaying bodies (hundreds of years at least), but those can be blown up in wars. Wars, one of thetakind’s perennial “fun things to do.”

And in a broader sense, isn’t decay of the being an analogy of decay of a body? A body’s cells break down eventually, but in a being, it is “morality” which breaks down. And doesn’t that impact and influence others, so that eventually you get a deterioration of what Scn calls a Fourth Dynamic, or perhaps even the Seventh Dynamic, and perhaps even belief in God, and belief in oneself? So that “organism” of thetakind begins to deteriorate. The thought of it all – the considerations, the perceptions and the freshness and joy and aspirations – grows “senile”. And Rod Serling made a Twilight Zone movie about an old folks home and old folks turning into kids again. Would that it were that easy, to just “believe” and have it happen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzEP_kGY-Rk

What I’m confused about is whether each of exists as “a single being under God”, as it were, destined to go alone, or whether each of us exists as part of “thetakind under God”, as it were, somehow inextricably in contact and “linked” in some manner. For example: if the decision TO BE is forever, then does it follow that the notion and practicality of “WE” also is forever? Is it just O/W and M/W/H that would make me question this? Or is it above that and into the questions of assuming responsibility as an individual? As opposed to mere agreements?

A being gets so wrapped up in being a body …. The solution for the Co$ people and for the “non-believers” is simply body death. That will occur (based on all prior evidence). So the beings will “escape” their self-imposed “Prison of Reality of Body” that way, eventually. But the thing is a being doesn’t want to. Doesn’t want to “die”. I tried posting about how a being spends most of his time and energy taking care of a body in this “game” we have going with bodies, and nobody reading cared to make a comment one way or the other, which tells me there is very broad unreality on the fact that an immortal being is in fact enslaved to this game of bodies.

The rest of Eternity is a long time, by my reckoning. But even there, you have a being thinking in terms of time and of agreements. the “WE” of it all.

My solution so far is to look at the EP of original OT VII as an ability to move into and out of any reality at will. But … one must find one’s own solution to “Where do I/we go from here?” Scn takes you there, but it doesn’t tell you what to do. That would be Ethics, and Scn didn’t mess with that, didn’t mess with a being’s self-determinism. Scns apparently wish it did, and make up things to the effect that it does. But the fact is, it doesn’t. And there is the prison (or freedom) made by oneself.

So … we live in a Twilight Zone. There’s God. There’s Creation. There’s individuals. There’s “we”. And the only parts we have explained after a long, long time and billions of man-hours thinking about it, is what a being is, and how it works or functions. We are at a train stop in a town called “Creation,” and we can make what we want of it. Kick the can, or pass the buck. And should one or some of us decide to catch the next train, what lies up ahead? Another sign post reading “Creation”? I think that is individual, no longer “we”. One can influence another, communicate with another, but it is up to the other to create that communication and receive it. More than that, it is up to the individual to create a communication to begin with, to have a thought to communicate. And that is clearly individual.

Random thoughts, left in a package at a station.