Aqua, I indeed hear what you are saying. I’m certainly no guru on human behavior. I don’t think anyone with bad intentions can be though, as they are nothing more than dictators or despots. I am always relieved to meet people who are not intent on controlling others with nefarious intentions or are stupid and don’t realize they are hurting people. It’s hard to put it into terms but there’s a job we all must do at times imo, and that is stand up to the bully and defang them. Not everyone can do that, so we rely on the ones that can, or suffer if nothing is done.
I agree that “absolutes” are unattainable but at least we can strive to curb the behavior of those that, through time, can be seen to harm and destroy people’s lives, such as the CofS.
We are the good people that can reflect on our behavior and try to see the sense in ourselves & others. Good answers & solutions are hard to come by, they are perpetually slippery but always worth the effort when you grab one.
Beth Horvath wrote this:
“My poetry is about life.
The funny side and the sad side.
The good times and bad. It is about love and loss. Man’s inhumanity to man.
The human spirit’s triumph over adversity.
The characters that make us laugh and the ones that make us cry.
Places in the heart – from the Aussie bush to the bright lights of Paris.
Lives well-lived and lives wasted.
C’est La Vie, Mon Ami, C’est La Vie.”

We’ve waited nearly TWO millennia for this Jesus Christ guy to return and he hasn’t done so. Let’s face it, we’re on our own.

My first regular job in the private sector (I had two consecutive paper routes and a municipally funded position) was a part time janitorial position at two candy shops in Downtown Minneapolis. Both shops had glass display cases. Two glass doors. And were faced in white glass. (Some people may know what chain I’m writing about.) LRH had a distinct method of cleaning glass which was NEVER used.

Well, in fairness, I never claimed my proffered solutions to be FULLY adequate, nor ALL encompassing 🙂 I don’t think one needs to operate in absolutes. I think even attempting to deal in absolutes is impractical and of itself a kind of non-confront. In other words if something, some strategy or policy isn’t guaranteed to ALWAYS create a good effect, then don’t use it.

The way I think is If some pre-set plan or way of doing something or policy is MOSTLY workable, MOSTLY helpful; if it delivers a good result or effect most of the time – a big “if” – then I would adapt it as policy, I would rely on it as a guideline , because its been proven in the laboratory of life to be workable and helpful. I would not expect it to necessarily work or be helpful ALWAYS, would not rely on it to never fail EVER in every instance, with everyone. Does that make sense or indicate to you? I’m interested in your feedback, thanks.

I don’t believe there’ll ever be a fully adequate, all encompassing solution. What you suggest is logical, but diplomacy and good ideas often falls well short with non application, although generally given lip service. It only works on those who are prepared to change. However, we can always strive towards exposing those responsible and it gives an opportunity for a better system to evolve.
From my experience in life, ‘school yard bullies’ will always exist in one form or another and running to the school administration seldom meets with a satisfactory or lasting results, time marches on too quickly and legalities costs a fortune. Especially to curb the activities of the clever, sadistic ones who learn get their jollies off by evading punishment just as much as satisfying their warped & cruel behavior. It’s like a drug to them.
Plan B, although frowned upon, is immediately effective in the majority of situations. However, not everyone can defend themselves or are stopped from doing so, or has a big brother, and even less, one in uniform.
Then we grow up, look around and wonder, WTF!

PS: And the fact that I’m highly amused while writing this would make BOTH groups DEEPLY pity me even more than they already do! Because that is how FAR, FAR below awareness I am!

The irony is they pity US. They believe we’re doomed, or, more accurately, are in desperate need of recovery, dire need of having our overts and witholds “pulled” so that we can once more be part of their group again. They believe that the only reason – the ONLY reason! – for me and people like me, for ANYONE no longer being Scientologists in good standing is due to own overts and witholds, against Scientology specifically and/or O/Ws on whomever and/or whatever in general.

THAT is what they believe with all their hearts and souls. The concept of Scientology itself, the Church itself, or David Miscavige, or L. Ron Hubbard, being, or at any time having been, out ethics is completely, utterly anathema to them …dangerous…counter-intentioned…unthinkable!

I going to draw a parallel between Scientologists “in good standing” and my fundamenalist Born Again Christian cousins in Georgia.

Both pity me.

The former pity me because they KNOW that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for me to have left Scientology if I didn’t have SERIOUS overts against Scientology that I am witholding. There is no middle ground. Scientology NEVER does anything wrong. Never makes any; mistakes or does anything wrong or cruel, etc., etc., resulting in people leaving. Never, ever! And so they KNOW why I left and they pity me because I am, they fervently believe, carrying this enormous BURDEN of O/Ws that will cost me my “eternity”. There is no future for me , no future lifetimes for me that will be bright or happy. Its all dark, twisted, complicated, muddy, dirty…for eternity! Possibly someone will “pick me up” in Scientology NEXT LIFETIME or in some future lifetime or maybe even in this lifetime still, but unless or until someone does, I’m degraded and getting worse and nothing will ever be good for me…get the idea?

Ok, that’s your Fundamentalist Scientologist.

Now, as regards my cousins in Georgia who are fervent Born Agains, its FAR simpler: It doesn’t matter WHAT I’ve done. Murder, mayhem, robbery – whatever, doesn’t matter.
THEY pity me because I have not accepted Jesus Christ as my SAVIOR by becoming a Born Again Christian. end of story!

Because This means I’m going to Hell when I die.

This means I’m going to burn forever in Hell, wherever Hell is – underneath the ground someplace, I don’t know, and it doesn’t matter! Never mind WHERE Hell is insofar as my refusal to become Born Again! Never mind! Where it is is totally irrelevant! Its SOMEplace, its awful, and I’m going there! And so they pity me 🙂

One might well ask: could anyone with half a brain even make this shit up? Honestly? FYI, I’m laughing as I write this.

Yawn, I’d add that that in utilizing tools of any kind, there can be no separation between the ability to use tools well, and one’s purposes in using them.

“Just how does one put lasting justice in on the criminally insane, or stop a good or benign idea from becoming a weapon?”

Great questions.

My no fake modest solutions would be as follows:
* Isolate the former from society for the rest of their lives
* Educate people widely and intensely so that they understand that we have TOOLS at our disposal which can be utilized for doing good or doing evil, and that good results or bad results depend such education and our purposes in using said tools.

Trying to please an ungrateful master or believing the lies that are used to trick and incarcerate one’s body & soul are one of mankind’s most ugliest consequences.
On the other hand, the inability to truly grasp the magnitude of mans inhumanity to man is the best defense for those that create such terrible atrocities, it’s unconfrontable.
Just how does one put lasting justice in on the criminally insane or stop a good or benign idea from becoming a weapon?