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	Comments on: Germany on Scientology	</title>
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	<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/</link>
	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
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		<title>
		By: Mick Wenlock		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400678</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mick Wenlock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2021 20:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2611053#comment-400678</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400164&quot;&gt;PeaceMaker&lt;/a&gt;.

My info is , thankfully, well out of date of course. It really is hard to estimate the actual size of any org&#039;s &quot;field&quot; really is. Probably the best rule of thumb would be the attendance at the org&#039;s March 13th Event. That doesn&#039;t give an &quot;active&quot; membership but would give an approximation of those who consider themselves as &quot;in&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400164">PeaceMaker</a>.</p>
<p>My info is , thankfully, well out of date of course. It really is hard to estimate the actual size of any org&#8217;s &#8220;field&#8221; really is. Probably the best rule of thumb would be the attendance at the org&#8217;s March 13th Event. That doesn&#8217;t give an &#8220;active&#8221; membership but would give an approximation of those who consider themselves as &#8220;in&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mark Kamran		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400369</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Kamran]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2021 04:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2611053#comment-400369</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Good to see that Germans are not blinded by the loop holes of First amendment as in USA. 
May be it is because as they do not follow Common Law and not carried away with  what happening in other English speaking countries in the name Religious Freedom.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good to see that Germans are not blinded by the loop holes of First amendment as in USA.<br />
May be it is because as they do not follow Common Law and not carried away with  what happening in other English speaking countries in the name Religious Freedom.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Todd Cray		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400336</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Todd Cray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2021 00:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2611053#comment-400336</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400176&quot;&gt;AnEx&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for the tip. My days in Germany, &quot;Tatort&quot; was the thing. I know...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400176">AnEx</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for the tip. My days in Germany, &#8220;Tatort&#8221; was the thing. I know&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Real		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400277</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Real]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2021 17:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2611053#comment-400277</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400197&quot;&gt;Ruby&lt;/a&gt;.

No Ruby, most orgs have no where NEAR 25-75 staff.  Only SO orgs.  Class V orgs have MAYBE a couple handfuls of staff.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400197">Ruby</a>.</p>
<p>No Ruby, most orgs have no where NEAR 25-75 staff.  Only SO orgs.  Class V orgs have MAYBE a couple handfuls of staff.</p>
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		<title>
		By: NNGrad		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400215</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NNGrad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2021 05:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2611053#comment-400215</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400164&quot;&gt;PeaceMaker&lt;/a&gt;.

The number is estimated from a blown staff who managed the Central Files or heard about that number of files in that place, most of them maybe just bought a book 30 years ago and pased away, Germans are less fools than Italians but 3500 is better than 1500 for their matters.

Anyway, at this moment i supposed there are maybe only 300 DM followers]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400164">PeaceMaker</a>.</p>
<p>The number is estimated from a blown staff who managed the Central Files or heard about that number of files in that place, most of them maybe just bought a book 30 years ago and pased away, Germans are less fools than Italians but 3500 is better than 1500 for their matters.</p>
<p>Anyway, at this moment i supposed there are maybe only 300 DM followers</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ruby		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400197</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ruby]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2021 02:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2611053#comment-400197</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[500 per org? Mike, you are way too generous! Most orgs have between 25-75 staff, and at most a couple hundred active scientologists. At most! More likely less than a hundred, and most of those are on extension courses or very part time schedules. 
Altho, Flag has more staff and more public, but still not up to impressive numbers. And the other SO staff in LA and other continents are simply captive members. 
The orgs are at, in my opinion, the irreducible minimum for both staff and public. 
Congratulations Defendant Captain David Miscavige. You&#039;ve achieved the status of irreducible minimum for the cherch.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>500 per org? Mike, you are way too generous! Most orgs have between 25-75 staff, and at most a couple hundred active scientologists. At most! More likely less than a hundred, and most of those are on extension courses or very part time schedules.<br />
Altho, Flag has more staff and more public, but still not up to impressive numbers. And the other SO staff in LA and other continents are simply captive members.<br />
The orgs are at, in my opinion, the irreducible minimum for both staff and public.<br />
Congratulations Defendant Captain David Miscavige. You&#8217;ve achieved the status of irreducible minimum for the cherch.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mick Roberts		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400191</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mick Roberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2021 01:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2611053#comment-400191</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;People who do not belong to the “Clears” should be denied basic rights and human dignity.&quot;

Well, that pretty much sums up the mindset of Scientology.  Excellent summation Germany.  Scientology&#039;s denial of &quot;basic rights&quot; and &quot;human dignity&quot; (even with their own members, including children) is the main reason people speak out against them.  It has nothing to do with any sort of self-described &quot;attack on religion&quot;.  They can believe whatever the hell they want to believe, but when they act outside of the law and with a total disregard for fundamental human rights, covering up abuses committed in its name, amongst many other despicable practices, that&#039;s the reason they are deservedly looked down upon with such disdain by the general public.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;People who do not belong to the “Clears” should be denied basic rights and human dignity.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, that pretty much sums up the mindset of Scientology.  Excellent summation Germany.  Scientology&#8217;s denial of &#8220;basic rights&#8221; and &#8220;human dignity&#8221; (even with their own members, including children) is the main reason people speak out against them.  It has nothing to do with any sort of self-described &#8220;attack on religion&#8221;.  They can believe whatever the hell they want to believe, but when they act outside of the law and with a total disregard for fundamental human rights, covering up abuses committed in its name, amongst many other despicable practices, that&#8217;s the reason they are deservedly looked down upon with such disdain by the general public.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Todd Cray		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400183</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Todd Cray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2021 22:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2611053#comment-400183</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[US scientologists like to brag about how they are an internationally recognized &quot;religion.&quot; This boast is usually based on being a tax-exempt organization in the US. It is debatable whether this amounts to being the &quot;government-approved religion&quot; they claim to be; let&#039;s not forget that the Constitution expressly forbids gov&#039;t from endorsing religions or &quot;religions&quot; (wink, wink). Still, the international recognition is clearly a mirage.

By and large, Europe has been making me proud. Germany has been unequivocally clear about the fact that they have the cult&#039;s number. In France--famously the place of Hubbard&#039;s second criminal conviction--the cult is one scandal away from prohibition. Holland failed to convict them, but the trial itself should have gone a long ways toward educating and warning off the public. Although they claim &quot;religious recognition&quot; in England this is clearly untrue (other than repeal of the archaic law that one must get married in a traditional place of worship--a dispute that has very little if anything to do with religion, let alone its recognition). The Irish press and public have been unrelentingly scathing in their assessment of the cult. Russia may be criticized for heavy-handedness but it&#039;s clear that they are not fooled either and are intending to protect their population. It&#039;s hard not to recognize that these are the leading countries in Europe!

Trouble seems to be brewing in Australia as well. Local laws and procedures requiring secrecy make it impossible to tell whether there is the political will to act on it but the right questions are clearly being asked. (Correct me if I&#039;m wrong but I believe that Oz has a public benefit requirement for religious exemption which makes the cult highly vulnerable.)

Overall, the international situation is highly encouraging--just not for Miscavige or anyone who wishes to perpetuate the myth of international religious recognition.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>US scientologists like to brag about how they are an internationally recognized &#8220;religion.&#8221; This boast is usually based on being a tax-exempt organization in the US. It is debatable whether this amounts to being the &#8220;government-approved religion&#8221; they claim to be; let&#8217;s not forget that the Constitution expressly forbids gov&#8217;t from endorsing religions or &#8220;religions&#8221; (wink, wink). Still, the international recognition is clearly a mirage.</p>
<p>By and large, Europe has been making me proud. Germany has been unequivocally clear about the fact that they have the cult&#8217;s number. In France&#8211;famously the place of Hubbard&#8217;s second criminal conviction&#8211;the cult is one scandal away from prohibition. Holland failed to convict them, but the trial itself should have gone a long ways toward educating and warning off the public. Although they claim &#8220;religious recognition&#8221; in England this is clearly untrue (other than repeal of the archaic law that one must get married in a traditional place of worship&#8211;a dispute that has very little if anything to do with religion, let alone its recognition). The Irish press and public have been unrelentingly scathing in their assessment of the cult. Russia may be criticized for heavy-handedness but it&#8217;s clear that they are not fooled either and are intending to protect their population. It&#8217;s hard not to recognize that these are the leading countries in Europe!</p>
<p>Trouble seems to be brewing in Australia as well. Local laws and procedures requiring secrecy make it impossible to tell whether there is the political will to act on it but the right questions are clearly being asked. (Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong but I believe that Oz has a public benefit requirement for religious exemption which makes the cult highly vulnerable.)</p>
<p>Overall, the international situation is highly encouraging&#8211;just not for Miscavige or anyone who wishes to perpetuate the myth of international religious recognition.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AnEx		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400176</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AnEx]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2021 22:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2611053#comment-400176</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[For German speaking readers of Mike&#039;s blog I&#039;d like to point you to a TV series from 2012. It&#039;s part of a German crime TV Series called SoKo Leipzig - Clear. (SoKo stands for Sonderkommission = Special Unit).  It&#039;s on YouTube here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24jHcX_OuOw

And this is what it is about:
A well liked private tutor is found - killed by a bullet. He was a member of Scientology. The Special Unit suspects the killer to be found in the ranks of anti-Scientologists. Suspects are parents who did not know to whom they had entrusted their kids. But it turns out that the tutor had been sick with cancer and had wanted to leave Scientology. The Special Unit next suspects the tutor&#039;s colleague, also a Scientologist. Suprisingly she confesses to the murder. But the Special Unit remains suspicious because her confession comes a bit too fast. In the end, it&#039;s 3 teenagers/students who killed the tutor &quot;to protect the organization&quot;.

What suprised me were the extremely smooth details with which the writer of this series has the Scientologists voice their convictions. 

While I am on the subject of TV Series: Another series from the UK, Pure from 2019, has a mention of Scientology in Season 1, Episode 5 as a brainwashing cult. Doesn&#039;t beat the kinky Scientologist in Californication, Season 1, Episode 2 (2007) where Hank asks if she&#039;s Clear yet while having sex with her.

AnEx]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For German speaking readers of Mike&#8217;s blog I&#8217;d like to point you to a TV series from 2012. It&#8217;s part of a German crime TV Series called SoKo Leipzig &#8211; Clear. (SoKo stands for Sonderkommission = Special Unit).  It&#8217;s on YouTube here:  <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24jHcX_OuOw" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24jHcX_OuOw</a></p>
<p>And this is what it is about:<br />
A well liked private tutor is found &#8211; killed by a bullet. He was a member of Scientology. The Special Unit suspects the killer to be found in the ranks of anti-Scientologists. Suspects are parents who did not know to whom they had entrusted their kids. But it turns out that the tutor had been sick with cancer and had wanted to leave Scientology. The Special Unit next suspects the tutor&#8217;s colleague, also a Scientologist. Suprisingly she confesses to the murder. But the Special Unit remains suspicious because her confession comes a bit too fast. In the end, it&#8217;s 3 teenagers/students who killed the tutor &#8220;to protect the organization&#8221;.</p>
<p>What suprised me were the extremely smooth details with which the writer of this series has the Scientologists voice their convictions. </p>
<p>While I am on the subject of TV Series: Another series from the UK, Pure from 2019, has a mention of Scientology in Season 1, Episode 5 as a brainwashing cult. Doesn&#8217;t beat the kinky Scientologist in Californication, Season 1, Episode 2 (2007) where Hank asks if she&#8217;s Clear yet while having sex with her.</p>
<p>AnEx</p>
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		<title>
		By: PeaceMaker		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400164</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PeaceMaker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2021 20:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2611053#comment-400164</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400139&quot;&gt;Jere Lull&lt;/a&gt;.

Jere, we see around 3 to 4 dozen people in the promo pictures for big events at orgs in the US, that I assume represent the truly active membership - and in the case of at least a couple of orgs I have some additional information to validate that.   Then, in one case I knew about, there were around twice as many more &#039;dilettantes&#039; who might show up for one or two of the major annual events, to socialize and see old friends.  And on top of that, there are those higher up on the bridge who are mostly involved at advanced orgs and have little or nothing to do with local orgs.

You can look at the pictures of &quot;ideal&quot; org openings in recent years in Stuttgart and Milan, and see that Scientology can still get relatively large numbers of people to turn out in Europe.  We don&#039;t know how far people have come from, but it&#039;s likely to represent a couple of hundred in each of the larger countries.

I assume that org sizes are similar in Germany so i think there might turn out to be 350 to 500 active members in the country.  My guess is that 3,500 is the count of people who hold IAS memberships, but in many cases those were life memberships pushed through hard sell, and those members haven&#039;t set foot in an org in years if not decades.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/germany-on-scientology/#comment-400139">Jere Lull</a>.</p>
<p>Jere, we see around 3 to 4 dozen people in the promo pictures for big events at orgs in the US, that I assume represent the truly active membership &#8211; and in the case of at least a couple of orgs I have some additional information to validate that.   Then, in one case I knew about, there were around twice as many more &#8216;dilettantes&#8217; who might show up for one or two of the major annual events, to socialize and see old friends.  And on top of that, there are those higher up on the bridge who are mostly involved at advanced orgs and have little or nothing to do with local orgs.</p>
<p>You can look at the pictures of &#8220;ideal&#8221; org openings in recent years in Stuttgart and Milan, and see that Scientology can still get relatively large numbers of people to turn out in Europe.  We don&#8217;t know how far people have come from, but it&#8217;s likely to represent a couple of hundred in each of the larger countries.</p>
<p>I assume that org sizes are similar in Germany so i think there might turn out to be 350 to 500 active members in the country.  My guess is that 3,500 is the count of people who hold IAS memberships, but in many cases those were life memberships pushed through hard sell, and those members haven&#8217;t set foot in an org in years if not decades.</p>
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