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	Comments on: IAS Running Amok	</title>
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	<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/</link>
	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2013 02:15:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Cece		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18909</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cece]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2013 02:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14753#comment-18909</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes Ronnie and they are not allowed to have an &#039;open mind&#039; - ref KSW
Cece]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Ronnie and they are not allowed to have an &#8216;open mind&#8217; &#8211; ref KSW<br />
Cece</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hallie Jane		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18900</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hallie Jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2013 00:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14753#comment-18900</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18879&quot;&gt;Odd Thomas&lt;/a&gt;.

I witness the  irony!  Amen and hallelujah!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18879">Odd Thomas</a>.</p>
<p>I witness the  irony!  Amen and hallelujah!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hallie Jane		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18888</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hallie Jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2013 21:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14753#comment-18888</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Love it........+1!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love it&#8230;&#8230;..+1!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Odd Thomas		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18879</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Odd Thomas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2013 20:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14753#comment-18879</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18805&quot;&gt;Ronnie Bell&lt;/a&gt;.

That&#039;s exactly it Ronnie, well said. When I was at staff at St. Hill in the 70s, there were times when everything was aligned: Purpose, policy, compassion, auditing, vision, all of it and you had a keyed out environment. Anything was possible. In my opinion, it changed when the Tech ceased being applied liberally to those staff who were outward facing. Who were interacting with actual SPs, who were intent on suppression, not just to SCN, but to betterment as a whole. These staff became less able, less perceptive to the degree they were NOT getting audited, NOT getting trained. Not receiving the relief SCN was intended to provide, though they were dedicating their lives to keeping it available. (Can I get a witness on the irony of this situation.)

LRH recommended in numerous PLs to rotate staff in certain position. Move them to back lines, audited them, care for them - then return them to post. Some of these characters - me included - had unbelievable levels of stress washing over them on a daily basis. Like barnacles adhering to the hull of a ship - it affected us, we got a little crusty. 

None of this excuses abuse or inactivity. It perhaps, sheds a little more light on how it came about.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18805">Ronnie Bell</a>.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s exactly it Ronnie, well said. When I was at staff at St. Hill in the 70s, there were times when everything was aligned: Purpose, policy, compassion, auditing, vision, all of it and you had a keyed out environment. Anything was possible. In my opinion, it changed when the Tech ceased being applied liberally to those staff who were outward facing. Who were interacting with actual SPs, who were intent on suppression, not just to SCN, but to betterment as a whole. These staff became less able, less perceptive to the degree they were NOT getting audited, NOT getting trained. Not receiving the relief SCN was intended to provide, though they were dedicating their lives to keeping it available. (Can I get a witness on the irony of this situation.)</p>
<p>LRH recommended in numerous PLs to rotate staff in certain position. Move them to back lines, audited them, care for them &#8211; then return them to post. Some of these characters &#8211; me included &#8211; had unbelievable levels of stress washing over them on a daily basis. Like barnacles adhering to the hull of a ship &#8211; it affected us, we got a little crusty. </p>
<p>None of this excuses abuse or inactivity. It perhaps, sheds a little more light on how it came about.</p>
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		<title>
		By: 1984		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18878</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[1984]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2013 20:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14753#comment-18878</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18822&quot;&gt;Joe Pendleton&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot; I thought when you knew the tech of something, you couldn’t be the effect of it &quot; - Knowing in this sense is an actual understanding of it.
Joe, what was your understanding of all this just prior to deciding to leave the church? (I am sure that it is different now.)
The process of acquiring the &quot;Clear of CofS&quot; cog (CCS cog) takes as long as it takes. (and your mileage may vary, depending on the degree of PTS ness involved.)
Yes, they are responsible. They are also out of PT.
It is indeed an interesting problem.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18822">Joe Pendleton</a>.</p>
<p>&#8221; I thought when you knew the tech of something, you couldn’t be the effect of it &#8221; &#8211; Knowing in this sense is an actual understanding of it.<br />
Joe, what was your understanding of all this just prior to deciding to leave the church? (I am sure that it is different now.)<br />
The process of acquiring the &#8220;Clear of CofS&#8221; cog (CCS cog) takes as long as it takes. (and your mileage may vary, depending on the degree of PTS ness involved.)<br />
Yes, they are responsible. They are also out of PT.<br />
It is indeed an interesting problem.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hallie Jane		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18876</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hallie Jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2013 20:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14753#comment-18876</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18805&quot;&gt;Ronnie Bell&lt;/a&gt;.

Well stated, as usual, Ronnie.  I think there are 2 main areas to this, from the public  view, or the customer experience.  One, is personal auditing.  When a person has experienced auditing with code breaks, misprogramming, inval, eval, then, the general problems, become more significant, because the whole point of the endeavor is lost.  I know people, who felt they were getting gains, so they chose not to handle 3D outpoints,  so they could continue.   
Then there&#039;s the 3D vantage point, where someone who&#039;s a veteran, ex staff, or is trained, tries to correct the scene via Qual, and finds it sleeping, whimpy, and unresponsive.   Again if this person were experiencing personal gains, they might consider this more important, or the 3D outpoint an anomaly.   Even a little bit of case gain, can keep people coming back for more, or for the potential of more, which starts the thought stopping and disinterest in looking.  It can look like the greater good........temporarily.  When the enturbulation and confusion of the reverse auditing  becomes intolerable, then, the shit hits the fan in some way. 
The RCS is now set up in such a way, that perception, awareness and cause, are antipathetic to the way the group functions.  I&#039;d call this psychotic, because it continually and with complexity, harms and destroys its own members.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18805">Ronnie Bell</a>.</p>
<p>Well stated, as usual, Ronnie.  I think there are 2 main areas to this, from the public  view, or the customer experience.  One, is personal auditing.  When a person has experienced auditing with code breaks, misprogramming, inval, eval, then, the general problems, become more significant, because the whole point of the endeavor is lost.  I know people, who felt they were getting gains, so they chose not to handle 3D outpoints,  so they could continue.<br />
Then there&#8217;s the 3D vantage point, where someone who&#8217;s a veteran, ex staff, or is trained, tries to correct the scene via Qual, and finds it sleeping, whimpy, and unresponsive.   Again if this person were experiencing personal gains, they might consider this more important, or the 3D outpoint an anomaly.   Even a little bit of case gain, can keep people coming back for more, or for the potential of more, which starts the thought stopping and disinterest in looking.  It can look like the greater good&#8230;&#8230;..temporarily.  When the enturbulation and confusion of the reverse auditing  becomes intolerable, then, the shit hits the fan in some way.<br />
The RCS is now set up in such a way, that perception, awareness and cause, are antipathetic to the way the group functions.  I&#8217;d call this psychotic, because it continually and with complexity, harms and destroys its own members.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cat Daddy		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18864</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cat Daddy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2013 19:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14753#comment-18864</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18792&quot;&gt;Cat Daddy&lt;/a&gt;.

Sorry I tought it was  younger

It all began in 1984, when the International Association of Scientologists was formed. It was a time when our religious freedom was under attack and delegates from Scientology churches in country after country gathered at Saint Hill to forge together one group in recognition of the need to unite all Scientologists as an international body. And to confirm their dedication to achieve the Aims of Scientology, those first IAS delegates formulated and signed The Pledge to Mankind to embody those goals. 

http://www.iasmembership.org/story/we-are-the-ias.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18792">Cat Daddy</a>.</p>
<p>Sorry I tought it was  younger</p>
<p>It all began in 1984, when the International Association of Scientologists was formed. It was a time when our religious freedom was under attack and delegates from Scientology churches in country after country gathered at Saint Hill to forge together one group in recognition of the need to unite all Scientologists as an international body. And to confirm their dedication to achieve the Aims of Scientology, those first IAS delegates formulated and signed The Pledge to Mankind to embody those goals. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.iasmembership.org/story/we-are-the-ias.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.iasmembership.org/story/we-are-the-ias.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Cat Daddy		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18863</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cat Daddy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2013 19:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14753#comment-18863</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18813&quot;&gt;Johnny Tank&lt;/a&gt;.

It rather opens the door to get part of your money back]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18813">Johnny Tank</a>.</p>
<p>It rather opens the door to get part of your money back</p>
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		<title>
		By: Carcha		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18838</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carcha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2013 15:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14753#comment-18838</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18805&quot;&gt;Ronnie Bell&lt;/a&gt;.

Nice piece of writing, Ronnie. A lot of thought there, and the extrapolations run. Nice.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18805">Ronnie Bell</a>.</p>
<p>Nice piece of writing, Ronnie. A lot of thought there, and the extrapolations run. Nice.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Joe Pendleton		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18822</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe Pendleton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2013 13:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14753#comment-18822</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18805&quot;&gt;Ronnie Bell&lt;/a&gt;.

Good point regarding data and knowledge Ronnie.  I certainly didn&#039;t have it for many years.

On the other hand, what good is doing the PTS/SP Course a number of times If a being cannot even RECOGNIZE suppression when it is around?  I thought when you knew the tech of something, you couldn&#039;t be the effect of it (obviously not a true datum by the way).

&quot;Can&#039;t resist&quot;?  &quot;A  leap of personal integrity and courage&quot; a &quot;choice to look&quot;?????  Ronnie, these folks are supposed to be CLEARS and OPERATING THETANS and AUDITORS!!!!!!  If they do not have the ability to have integrity and courage and they can&#039;t resist and are not able to make the conscious choice to LOOK .... then what the FUCK are they selling?  What abilities did Heber, Yager and company get out of going clear and OT and doing all the courses they did, if they are in the same fucked up condition and at effect as all the other people on the planet?????????

It all comes down to individual responsibility.  A thetan fucking KNOWS when he is in the presence of suppression and is committing gross overts.  I have lost the love and friendship of many dear to me because of the brainwashing of &quot;the church&quot; and I now refuse to absolve them of responsibility, which is really the point of the bulk of LRH&#039;s work really when you come to think of it.  Yes, I am now fucking UNREASONABLE with these alleged aware beings.  

You respect and honor people by electing and recognize them as cause.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-running-amok/#comment-18805">Ronnie Bell</a>.</p>
<p>Good point regarding data and knowledge Ronnie.  I certainly didn&#8217;t have it for many years.</p>
<p>On the other hand, what good is doing the PTS/SP Course a number of times If a being cannot even RECOGNIZE suppression when it is around?  I thought when you knew the tech of something, you couldn&#8217;t be the effect of it (obviously not a true datum by the way).</p>
<p>&#8220;Can&#8217;t resist&#8221;?  &#8220;A  leap of personal integrity and courage&#8221; a &#8220;choice to look&#8221;?????  Ronnie, these folks are supposed to be CLEARS and OPERATING THETANS and AUDITORS!!!!!!  If they do not have the ability to have integrity and courage and they can&#8217;t resist and are not able to make the conscious choice to LOOK &#8230;. then what the FUCK are they selling?  What abilities did Heber, Yager and company get out of going clear and OT and doing all the courses they did, if they are in the same fucked up condition and at effect as all the other people on the planet?????????</p>
<p>It all comes down to individual responsibility.  A thetan fucking KNOWS when he is in the presence of suppression and is committing gross overts.  I have lost the love and friendship of many dear to me because of the brainwashing of &#8220;the church&#8221; and I now refuse to absolve them of responsibility, which is really the point of the bulk of LRH&#8217;s work really when you come to think of it.  Yes, I am now fucking UNREASONABLE with these alleged aware beings.  </p>
<p>You respect and honor people by electing and recognize them as cause.</p>
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