Mirildi, you want to argue to the death don’t you? The Buddha didn’t put anything down in writing so we don’t know what he really said. Many things are attributed to him some of which defy common sense and some which may be true. The vaishnavites (Hare Krishnas) say he is an incarnation of Lord Shiva yet the Buddha denied the existence of deities so… you have free license to believe whatever furthers your aims.

My point is that claims of telekinetic abilities etc. you seemingly legitimized by quoting Hubbard’s definition of a fanciful state of consciousness (cuckoo theta clear?) are to be considered fantastical notions until authentically demonstrated.

This is notwithstanding Yogananda’s autobiography which of course I have read. I respectfully refrain from commenting on the book only to say I consider the man to have been a great mahatma. I also respectfully excuse myself from discussing this matter any further with you.

Roger: “I know of no Buddhism from the theravadin, vajrayana or zen schools that ascribe siddhi powers to Guatama Buddha.”

I’m pretty sure the Theravadins do. Perhaps Path of Buddha / George could verify that as he is a Theravadin and I believe a Pali scholar as well.

With regard to the yogi’s, I’m pretty sure Brian would have data, since Yogananda in his book “Autobiography of a Yogi” wrote about and directly witnessed siddhis. I forget if he himself had those powers.

Of course you were quoting Hubbard.

I know of no Buddhism from the theravadin, vajrayana or zen schools that ascribe siddhi powers to Guatama Buddha. The story goes when people wanted to suggest he was an incarnated deity he relied, “I am just a man”.

However, one of the Tibetan Buddhas, Aveloketeshvara, was purportedly born of a lotus leaf! The real reason the yogis maintained it was forbidden for them to demonstrate their siddhi powers is because they didn’t have them! The whole India myths of higher states of consciousness and siddhi powers was to entice the masses to follow dharma. Actual enlightenment isn’t all that sexy.

At any rate, such powers cannot be said to exist without substantiation.

But…..but that would make Theresa Heinz Kerry into a Scientologist!

OSD, I thought the 59th was that feeling you got after going over the falls and into the washing machine when the bottom is rock…

Cindy, Ann probably gave birth to Ali before the F.O. was issued. That was back in the late 80’s I believe.

If Jeff Mintz has a daughter, why weren’t he and his wife demoted to a failing Class V Org when she got pregnant? That was what was done with SO members who refused to abort. Did the daughter grow up in the Cadet Org and then join a real SO Org when she got old enough? And is she still in the SO? Anyone have information about this?

“Marildi, in response to your authoritative-sounding description of the CLEARED THETA CLEAR ( a person who can create illusions perceivable to others at will and is able to handle mest objects without mechanical means), we can confidently say there is no such thing.”

That wasn’t my description. It was Hubbard’s, from the tech dictionary. That should have been clear, as each of the definitions gave the reference.

“There is no documented case of anybody anywhere ever effecting a breech of the natural laws. Therefore, alluding to such things as factual carries a measure of responsibility famously lacking in, for instance, car salesmen and grinning red-headed spinners of tall tales.”

And don’t forget the Buddha. He himself apparently claimed to have such powers but refused to demonstrate them and discouraged others from doing so, as he considered the siddhis to be a diversion from the path to enlightenment.

More like a BM town OSD. After all, that describes better El Con’s church that dominates the place…