Really Irene? I had a close friend who left the Mormon church and nothing bad happened to him. Can you show us policies of the Mormon church that state such?

Why not ideealgoal? they are one in the same. El Ron created it in his own “image”. If you don’t know that, you don’t know how he ACTUALLY ran the “church”…

Have a look at why you continue in the church? Do you know that you could continue with Scientology outside the church?

“Nonsense; you are a young adventurous soul.”
Thank you, It’s what I am if I am not in the pressure of time. Medicine add things to you with diagnosis, body follows a downward path, I don’t know how to revert the malediction. Present depend of past action or non action, you’re always afraid to cause a wrong future. I don’t wake up free every morning.

Scientology was to some degree a cult, and became a treason in 1982 with David Miscavige. I liked some cult aspect, or let’s call it third dynamic rules. For exemple having a well tought course room with good sup, applying intelligently their hat, with positive discipline, could make happy and competent student.

In the independant field, I found it very difficult to have auditing wins. If I was not happy with auditor’s TRs there was nobody to correct it, no qual.

Scientology became a mess when qual was replaced by RTC. Between 1980 and 1982 I held the post of cramming officer. It was really a great experience. I vanished from the org in 1982, seeing clearly what was coming !

We are now really on 21 century. And like the telexes course room are no longer needed. Internet provide all, but I liked being part of a group, not a stupid follower, simply seeing that it was working well. I will study EFT, alone I will need a lot of self discipline.

The offer out of the church is huge that you sometime regret the church. Its why they stay. It’s organized. You are not exposed to contradiction. It was fine for me. But I couldn’t not see that Miscavige was a suppressive, that GAT was garbage. So I left.

At that point I am trying to improve my life. I could use audting or anything else for the matter. I am trying to improve my health, I became good with aromatherapy and so many things. But I need to become again higher than some MEST diktat.

I think one can consider Scientology as an experience, and being able to have a relative viewpoint, and still keep what is making him better.

I hear you, there is much to be gleaned out of more research done by the pioneer types. All very well and good, it’s needed and there are good souls looking for good solutions always.

In Corey Goodes defence I must say I have ploughed hundred’s of hours into verifying his data and cross checking him from other sources from multiple levels. It was tiring but worth it. His donations are not expensive. He offers ALL the transcripts of his cosmic disclosure interviews free of charge off his sphere being alliance website. So no I dont think hes even remotely doing what the church does. Pretty humble guy. I think you didnt give it a proper thorough go as with your usual style Peter. As you said it didnt ring a bell. I wont try to push you. Your party in the end old friend.

Other military whistle blowers including a 90yr old William Thomkins who worked for the US navy most of his life (since the 40’s) as design engineer has one helluva story to tell! It verifies much of Coreys data. Search for William Thomkins radio interview on youtube. Compelling? Hardly, it’s almost beyond belief! However you tell me, can it convince the once bitten, twice shy ex-Scio? Who knows. But it tells me there is plenty info the average person has not been told and it’s all coming out now. Don’t believe me. Look how NASA is even changing its tune about a great many things. Apparently life on Mars is almost a certainty haha. Not that long ago they said it was highly unlikely. What changed?

My tie in to the subject of Scientology with all this is simple. We all live in our chosen bubbles whatever they may be. There is the church bubble, the ex-church goers bubble and then there is this greater bubble or terra incognita out there which holds great promise and we should all embrace whatever else is out there, weird or not, with both hands. It’s not dangerous to look after all. So go look everyone. Let DM die on his own all by himself..the loner! We all have much more to learn.

“I understand all what you said. I took a first look EFT, well one has really to duplicate it and apply.”

Yes, it took me 3-4 weeks, 5-8 hours a day to fully get it all. It has many promises, believe me. You know how skeptical I can be with any one system.

“Like it was wtih Scientology. It was a hard work to learn how to audit starting with HSDC (Hubbard Standard Dianetics Course), use of R3R.”

Yeah, I understand. I started with plain DMSMH, and delivered more than 10,000 hours of it. Read the book 6-8x, and followed all the R&D series on BK development, SOS, Notes on the Lectures, and applied all that to my PCs. I used to crack a case under one intensive with just that. Complete changes in the OCA graphs. But was it “Standard Tech” or my own abilities as a practitioner?

“When I started with Scientology, I wanted to become a psychoanalyst. I did studied a lot of Freud, Lacan (impossible to understand anything with Lacan), Ronald Laing etc… But I didn’t see anything clear on all of it. It would only depend of the talent of practitionner to have results on a patient.”

Yes, back then it was about talent. But Freud was a great therapist. He sure had the knack. His comm cycle was very good.

“When I read Dianetics Evolution of a Science, of course it was clear that it burrowed from Freud, the reactive mind being the inconscious, etc… Dianetics for me was just an american continuation of Freudian method, as was Jung or Wilhelm Reich.”

Yes, it was copied from Freud and others after him, that worked with war veterans with reasonable success. But LRH attributed it to himself. There isn’t one single mention in DMSMH about those earlier researchers.

“There was a lot of therapy going on the early seventies as Co-Counseling, helping to release emotion. But the fact that Dianetics was a kind of evolution of psychoanalyse made it secure for me. I find that the auditor’s code was a real breackthrough as well as the comme cycle. I was quite happy with my study without even being aware at all of the cultish aspect. But in the seventies it was much less cultish (only when I met the Sea Org, I couldn’t understand why they would wear uniform, I hated this military aspect). But the tech itself, Dianetics, academy levels, I found it making much sense and very applicable.”

I do not think that the Grades are bad tech at all. I only claim that they do not bring about what their EPs says. But they are fine. Just too expensive for the wins they do produce if they are not done as a coaudited activity. $30,000 more or less, for those results are WAY too much. Studying the checksheets at home, getting help in the drills, getting a twin, and paying for C/S time, is the way to go that is cost-effective, and cheap enough for the results one will get. Otherwise is overpriced.

“Now it went wrong not because of the tech, I can say that when I received auditing by the rules and smoothly and the same when I gave auditing it went well. It only went wrong when there was deliberate and arbitrary break of the tech by crazy CS obeying to the Gardian Office, OSA or their own paranoid nature or autoritarian aberration. With RTC and COB that was the end of any sanity in the church, all of the orders were mainly out tech.”

I agree that the Tech of the Grades and DNs applied by auditors who know how to use their brains – which are VERY few indeed – do not bring about any damages, and can bring about good wins. I personally would not waste more time with Scn tech when there are methods far superior to it. But I wouldn’t necessarily mind others doing it PROVIDED that absolutely no authoritarianism and bs cultic attitude does not enter into the scene.

“There was many things I wanted to say but I forgot some, I am getting old and I am not as bright as I was.”

Nonsense; you are a young adventurous soul.

“Hubbard was on the same way, the ‘total freedom’ idea could have been proven wrong if the state of Hubbard near the end of his life was divulgued, so they had to invent that he was scouting another universe, when he actually died miserably like most of the human being. It just made in perspective his writing not being so absolute.”

Yeah, it was not absolute by a long, long, long ways. LRH was never a true humanitarian. Only a true humanitarian is capable of staying honest all the way.

“You see, it’s not black and white, cultish or not cultish. To make wins, people have to believe. They cannot be open minded. It’s like method Coué, positive thinking. The postulate shared by the all the group that a PC must always being audited to FN Cog VGIs, not before, not beyond was making the certainty of case gains.”

I can understand that, but study EFT from Gary Craig, and see for yourself how he did not even “protected” his research, but on the contrary, encouraged others to improve it, and accepted hundreds of suggestions along the way, fully validating those contributions. And he set up a website where any trained person can learn the techniques FREE, and apply them to himself/herself. He is like 78 now, and looks more alive than a 30 year man!!! And he is incredible uptone and professional. Now, THAT is a true researcher. See the differences?

I mean, EFT didn’t get “lost” due to alterations. Some people did altered it in the direction of less effectiveness, and what Gary did, was to set up a website to make sure that others could learn it the right way. No legal threats, no copy-righting and trade-marking anything, no legal suits of any kind; nothing like that. THAT is what LRH should have done himself, if he would have TRULY cared about others.

“Without a group and some strong belief, improvement is more difficult to obtain and to keep. Scientology was right when it stayed on this path. But with the intervention of individuals with deviant intention (money, power) all went to hell, and it is very sad.”

Scn was already destined to fail since 1954, my friend. A group tends to become cultish about knowledge. Therapy should be an individual thing, not a group thing. EFT developed w/out no organization whatsoever. And its users and practitioners are in the thousands, a lot more than there are Scientology practitioners. NO Organization was ever needed; no “Planetary Clearing” was ever needed; no SO was ever needed; no copy-rights and trade-marks was ever needed; no KSW #1 was ever needed; no concept of ONE “Standard Tech” was ever needed; no EPs was ever needed’ no hype was ever needed.

What was really needed and wanted, was a workable therapy capable of bringing about REAL wins related to the life that one was living. And it such a therapy would have worked enough to make others more able and happier; that would have been ENOUGH. Anything besides that, was only in the direction of creating a cult. Scn was a cult since 1954, not after the ‘60s or late ‘70s as many allege. 1954 was the year when LRH change