“Yes I have your mail, and you have mine. We could continue our interesting conversation.”

Great! Yes, we will!

Yes I have your mail, and you have mine. We could continue our interesting conversation.
And thanks to Mike for reading and publishing.

“Yes, I got you ThetaClear, you’re quite convincing. But there are some part of scientology that I own really, like my own thought. It doesn’t happened with scientology only but with some other philosopher or writer, a sense of complete duplication let’s say.”

I understand you, FG; I really do. I am very much like you, actually. There is no need to throw away what works for us. Why should we, you know? Knowledge doesn’t belong to LRH nor to anybody else. Knowledge – workable knowledge – is there waiting for whoever is ready to make good use of it.

“Maybe it’s part of a kind of cultist hypnotism. But the phenomena occur with anything really, and is not particular to cult.”

It is not. You are just using what works for you. That’s perfectly fine.

“With the time I spent to study scientology, of course to some degree I have it inside of me. But I never agreed with some of the bullshit ethics policies.”

I also have a lot from Scn as part of me. The ones who know about my “bitter criticism” towards Scn and LRH, would never suspect how much from Scn I still use in my life. What works, doesn’t have anything to do with its originator or discoverer. One doesn’t immediately stop using the concepts of electromagnetism, for example, just because one finds out that Maxwell was a criminal (he was not; I am only offering an example). If the concepts work, then it is logical to use them, and rejecting those workable concepts based on emotions is a logical fallacy (something illogical).

“About class VIII “resistive cases” many are former practice type. Doesn’t mean that those practice were mainly wrong but to some degree they stuck the PC in it. Like drugs where one can be stuck on an exteriorization under LSD, which needs to be rehabbed and run out. It makes sense. I really kind of cognited on this. Mainly practices earlier to scientology maybe worked but overran the person. A by passed win resulting to invalidation. Probably some have by passed the state of Buddha.”

I understand that, and can even agree with it, but LRH’s main reason for that was based on his fixated belief that those practices were unworkable and booby-trapped. You are interpreting it in a correct way, in that one might be – for example – stuck on a past win, or on a past failed purpose, etc; but that was not necessarily LRH’s reasons for that CL. He actually thought that those practices were unworkable and booby-trapped, and “therefore”, had produced locks and even engrams on the PC. And that’s a unfounded generalization and a faulty logic.

“You see the idea of “overrun”, “invalidation” have very much released me on different matter. It also give another perception of time which is not a long boring waitingness, but very short units. To some degree it sent me into action.”

Yeah, I see your point, but LRH put just TOO much stress on “Overrunning”. His story about how many cases had allegedly been overrun before his discovery of the “F/N”, and had allegedly “bogged down”, wasn’t a reality. Hundreds of PCs from before the SHSBC era were run for many, many hours in 1951-’55 processes with great wins with no symptoms of “overrun” whatsoever. And in the BC, one could run for hours and hours constructing a specific GMP with no thoughts about “F/Ns”. And nobody died. Well, a few went crazy, haha. Really, so much emphasis on Overrunning is just silly. I never put my attention on that when I audited others, and I did just fine. Most things before the “F/N bullshit”, was more or less OK.

“We have lost our lightness to become realistic human, mortal, tired etc…Maybe you’ll judge that my position is an addiction to Hubbard, but it’s not so much to Hubbard as a person.”

Actually, I have affinity for that concept, but that concept you can find it on almost every easter philosophy. But as I told you in an earlier reply, we need to educate ourselves in other philosophies and healing techniques to have a broader view of it all. Then, we’ll be able to recognize that Scn only copy-pasted those concepts, but that they are even more understood outside of Scn.

“But I couldn’t less care about Hubbard as he was flesh and blood. I hate ships, uniforms, and mostly I’m a bit racist with anglo/american, puritan.”

Haha, I am Hispanic, so you might have an idea how I feel about my relationship with USA. We are US citizens, all right; but that doesn’t necessarily make us Americans. I am not. I am Puerto Rican. And our cultures couldn’t be more different.

“But about many things he wrote, really, i consider he should have had the Nobel Prize.
But maybe I didn’t like him as much as you did, so I’m not disappointed.”

Uhmmm, If you were to study the history about where exactly LRH took most of “his” principles from – as I did in GREAT detail – I feel that you might change your mind about it, my friend. When one has read and study as much as I have about so many different methods of healing, philosophies, history of philosophy, etc, Scientology suddenly loses its “magic” and its “grandeur”. And it wasn’t that I didn’t like him; I DID. It is just that I never thought that he was smarter than me. He wasn’t. Yeah, I know; that’s my “Aries” self-righteous side speaking, haha. But I love that side of me, 😉

We can keep this up on email lines, my friend; I don’t want Mike to work too much on having to read our loooong replies, 🙂 You kept my email, right?

“Thetaclear – This conversation could continue, which I would like, but since this is a daily blog I’ll make this my last comment.”

Agreed! We are making Mike to work more here with you and me, 🙂

“Grandma also told me that angels helped her and they would help me too if I asked them. She also sold some type of seaweed supplement as an aid to body and mind. She was a regular New Age person way back in the 1950s!”

Your grandma seems to have been a very unique and interesting individual!!

“Maybe grandma left a genetic trace in me which caused me to be a sure candidate for scn – laughter”

I think she did! 🙂

“Yes, you’re making sense. Maybe we all have some articles of faith or mysticism. I have mine and I feel no need to question them or toss them out.”

Yeah, you are right about that; thanks!

Yes, I got you ThetaClear, you’re quite convincing. But there are some part of scientology that I own really, like my own thought.
It doesn’t happened with scientology only but with some other philosopher or writer, a sense of complete duplication let’s say.
Maybe it’s part of a kind of cultist hypnotism. But the phenomena occur with anything really, and is not particular to cult.
With the time I spent to study scientology, of course to some degree I have it inside of me. But I never agreed with some of the bullshit ethics policies.
I have a bit the position of William Burrough : tech is really incredible, why those stupid and totalitarian ethics policies.
About class VIII “resistives cases” many are former practice type. Doesn’t mean that thoses practice were mainly wrong but to some degree they stuck the PC in it. Like drugs where one can be stuck on an exteriorization under LSD, which needs to be rehabed and run out. It makes sense. I really kind of cognited on this. Mainly practices earlier to scientology maybe worked but overran the person. A by passed win resulting to invalidation. Probably some have by passed the state of Buddha.
You see the idea of “overrun”, “invalidation” have very much released me on different matter. It also give another perception of time which is not a long boring waitingness, but very short units. To some degree it sent me into action.
Miscavige being an homo sapiens cannot understand the concept of overrun.
The big problem of scientology has been to become “human” again. Betrayal of “thetan” or “OT”. And even Hubbard appeared to have lost it.
Time, space, solidity was reintroduced in scientology. The whole subject is “Out Valence”.
We have lost our lightness to become realistic human, mortal, tired etc…
Maybe you’ll judge that my position is an addiction to Hubbard, but it’s not so much to Hubbard as a person.
But I couldn’t less care about Hubbard as he was flesh and blood. I hate ships, uniforms, and mostly I’m a bit racist with anglo/american, puritan. And I have a particular antagonism to monothéism, churchs etc. So I didn’t like the DNA of Hubbardand wasnot interested in his life experience, true or false.
But about many things he wrote, really, i consider he should have had the Nobel Price.
But maybe I didn’t like him as much as you did, so I’m not dissapointed.

Three days later and still nothing but crickets in response to my polite request of FooledProof to address the herd of theta elephants sitting in $cn’s living room.

We could go on for months in debating the minutia of Elron’s cosmology, but if the ultimate purpose of $cn is to free spiritual beings and return to them their long-lost native state super powers, yet there’s not one single person who can demonstrate the Clear and OT 8 EPs that they attested to, then any objective investigator would be forced to conclude that $cn DOES NOT WORK as promised for anyone with respect to the ultimate claims that Elron made for it.

If $cn worked as promised, then the demented midget wouldn’t need to fear-condition his followers in order to keep them in the cult; folks would be bustin’ down the doors in order to get them summa dat. They’re not because, once again, $cn DOES NOT WORK as promised!

The fact that some folks experience brief moments of euphoria and of being “keyed out” on lower level auditing processes is just the ‘cheese’ in the theta mousetrap which makes the long con of $cn so effective.

FooledProof just needs to show us one single individual who can objectively demonstrate any of the truly marvelous superhuman abilities that Elron promised could be attained by all in order to be taken seriously here. But since he’s “pulled an Elron” here in response to having this exact same challenge posed to him here in the past, it’s not at all surprising that he’d do the same thing now.

If Clears and OTs who can actually demonstrate any of these miraculous super powers DO NOT EXIST, then $cn MUST be a criminal fraud operation because folks continue to pay big bucks to achieve their super-powered Eternity, yet die the same kind of mere mortal deaths that the founder did.

Thetaclear – This conversation could continue, which I would like, but since this is a daily blog I’ll make this my last comment.

Grandma also told me that angels helped her and they would help me too if I asked them. She also sold some type of seaweed supplement as an aid to body and mind. She was a regular New Age person way back in the 1950s!

Maybe grandma left a genetic trace in me which caused me to be a sure candidate for scn – laughter

Yes, you’re making sense. Maybe we all have some articles of faith or mysticism. I have mine and I feel no need to question them or toss them out.

Or maybe she was afraid of getting KRed, comm-eved, and declared.

“Hi Thetaclear – There are some similarities in our stories. I might have been considered a non conformist or rebel ‘back then’.I hitchhiked back and forth across the U.S. twice in the early 1970s which was possible back then. People were more trusting and if you had long hair the hippies would usually stop and give you a lift.”

Haha, yeah, I can imagine how the hair might have helped. And if your hair was long, back then in the ‘70’, then you definitely was a non conformist, 🙂

“I had no problems with the subject of scn when I blew around 1982. I considered my role as an auditor to be similar and even superior to that of a certified psychologist.”

Gee, another self-righteous Scientologist like me, haha. I even thought that I was better than LRH; can you imagine my “delusion”? 😉

“I had ‘gone Dianetic Clear’ and was in the ‘non interference zone’ (no further auditing – go directly to the OT levels) when the monthly price increases resumed. I decided that the CoS was more interested in enriching itself than causing any planetary influence.”

Luckily, you that walked out soon enough!!

“HOWEVER (lol), if I had been wealthy I might have just paid for the rest of The Bridge and become acquainted with my BTs – laughter”

Uhmmm, something tells me that you would have walked out the door by the beginning of OT3, 🙂

“P.S. I’m also an Aries, April 12, 1946, 71 years young.”

Haha, I like that, “years young”. I am going to start using it myself now that I am approaching my 50th birthday, 🙂

In astrology we have the “Sun sign”, which means the area of the zodiac that the Sun was transiting over when one was born; the “Moon sign” which refers to the same, but with the Moon; and the “Ascendant” (or “Rising sign”), which means the zodiac sign that was “rising” in the eastern horizon when one was born. Those 3 are equally important. When a person says, “I am an Aries”, he is referring to the “Sun sign”. I am a “Virgo” Sun with a “Pisces” moon, and with an “Aries” Ascendant. The Ascendant is the first thing that others notice about you when they still don’t know you intimately. Thus my “Aries” side is what is mostly shown here at this blog. Personally, I am a little bit less “angered”, haha.

“I take no medicines and have no disabilities. Maybe going Clear had an effect? (That’s just joking but I’ll keep it in the belief bin as long as it keeps working – lol)”

No, really; I do think that having received NED might have something to do with it. I have always thought that NED is workable enough.

“My grandmother on my father’s side was a devout Methodist and also followed astrology and gave readings. Her viewpoint was that God created the Heavens so we could admire and use them.”

That’s a very interesting thought, the one your grandma held! As unscientific as it might look – which it DOES!! – astrology has explained soooooooo many things about myself. So, even though that I feel silly talking about it, and that I don’t necessarily buy into its explanation regarding planetary influences, I find it workable enough for me. But it is in the realm of “faith” or “mysticism” for me, and not under the heading of “Fact”. Am I making any sense? Haha

“Thus we are here talking about sharks.”

I love your analogy, 🙂

Indeed, we are talking about sharks!! And the BIG white ones, haha