Just word clear this tiny web page. It will tell you all you need to know.

https://whyweprotest.wikia.org/wiki/Former_Church_of_Scientology_members_who_have_spoken_out

And after coffee too!

Yeah, you saw that too. Good catch!

Mike is out of PT. He is having a difficult time. Made a great error leaving the C of S. Should have disclosed his committed overts and crimes and stayed in only to correct the out points. He panicked and blew. So bad were his overts that he left his family behind. What father would do that?

Mike natters enormously about DM. What does that tell you? What does the auditor do next if their p/c is nattering? Same applies here.

Mikes makes a lot of blunders when giving analogies and sharing concepts.

Needs to be brought into PT.

Guy Vogel

Hello theosis – Thank you for your response. Yes, LRH showed and proved in many ways that the brain is not the mind, but some people don’t (or won’t) get it. I just hope that ALL humans in the historical near future, say two or three hundred years will get it. Best, Richard

That’s quite all right, dear Mike ; I already said all I wanted to say to him , and besides no more words will change a thing anyway. Thanks for having allowed the exchange.

Peter

No more comments on this thread. It’s getting to be ridiculous. Sorry Peter, even if you wanted to, I will trash any reply. You can carry on with Theo on email lines if you wish.

Theo, don’t keep using pejoratives here. They make you look bad and the idea that there are lesser humans based on religious belief, sexual preference, ethnicity or anything else makes me ill. Especially on MLK day here in the US. Leave your proud name-calling behind if you want to post on this blog. I don’t like it and I make the rules here.

Richard D, I am not sure we are past the nuclear threshold. And though it’s true that the danger once came from the West and still is, now, I think it’s going global. I don’t have to comment more on this. There is a certain turmoil around the world.

I wrote in another comment of mine that we all share an amount of responsibility in how things went and… are going. I am not into arguments as much as trying to make a point that the mind should be pass on as being the mind… not the brain. Pretty simple and powerful. What we are going to do with this data is up to us, each one of us.

Ι like the “dear Theo” part. Then it’s a total invalidation. So, I am not gonna follow on that track as I do believe Scientology is not worth it. It’s a tool that deserves more decent dialogues and thoughtfulness.

As I read some of your postings (sorry no time to read all of them) I can say that if you did do the Book 1 auditor and got to that high skill then you should maybe spend your time getting some people to get trained and help some others. That’s even acknowledging Source and a way for people to get rid of some situations that are not prosurvival for them.

So, instead of trying to find someone to argue how much in fault LRH was, try to find what good it has done to you and others and stop this relentless and absurd (and unproductive) hunting for KSW victims. KSW is meant for what it was meant. That some mgmt guys couldn’t uphold it and it is now freely used as in black Dianetics and absurdly that is, does not mean that KSW did not and does not have a purpose. And those people who carried that responsibility and couldn’t uphold it carry some responsibility myself included though I was not part of high mgmt. So, each one pays his own due here and those who cannot and will not see this just go one finding ways to justify and not-is their own responsibility in this. How’s that now? So, don’t mess with a wounded animal. It won’t help anybody. Some chose to “escape” and in their escaping have completely not-ised the whole thing so they don’t get crazier.

Now, to keep it on a saner side, the fact that some people misuse the Scientology technology does not mean the technology is at fault. I’d rather say those people did not get it. Maybe for you that’s very simplified and naive but for me it shows the lack of certainty that existed even at the highest levels of Scientology mgmt and that the abuses and misunderstandings started from up there.

External influence and evil intentions against Mankind compounded the scene and Scientology was made to look like another cult. Homo Sap (yes Mike) at his best.

So, whatever you say and whatever you do keep in mind that all this argument does not have any point. It just makes less of the tool you are using. And LRH knew that. In fact, he has written in some non confidential lecture, which I don’t recall unfortunately that the Dianetics Clear was the OT in reality. And of course had he broadly announced that thing the whole thing would have fallen down. Whereas you know that Dianetics is not weak at all. So, LRH knew how to get people moving and he did accomplish what he did because he had that knack.

You can also read more stuff on this here: http://wiseoldgoat.com/papers-scientology/hubbard_story_of_mayo3a_clear.html

So, the point is not who is worse or who is better. We have all a share in this, smaller or bigger. But right now let’s acknowledge one thing: it all started with L. Ron Hubbard. The way it’s gonna go and where it’s going to end up starts with us. OK?

Hey theosis – In my opinion in order for any civilization to survive, logic must eventually overcome emotion. I’m making no evaluation here and don’t wish to invalidate or minimize the discussion below.

We humans have proceeded past the “nuclear threshold”. (not my original thought) That is the point when intelligent life discovers thermonuclear power and blows itself the fk up – or not. We passed that point during the Cuban missile crisis. Take a win!

Thanks , Iamvalkov ; that was a VERY interesting exchange between Geir and that Scientologist. I do hope that he keep it updated.

TC