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	Comments on: Tampa Bay Times Editorial	</title>
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	<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/</link>
	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 07 Oct 2013 12:55:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18728</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Oct 2013 12:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14723#comment-18728</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18539&quot;&gt;Mike Rinder&lt;/a&gt;.

I would add with regard to the morality of legal professionals, that  it is frequently the client that is shady. The U.S. justice system, both civil and criminal, is adversarial by design and each side is expected / required by the profession to represent their client with maximum effort. In most cases, is up to the bar associations to police the ethics of the lawyers in each state.

Often times what appears to be a deliberate lie by an attorney is the forwarding of the truth as they understand it from their client&#039;s side. I would suggest that the number of times an attorney deliberately lies in court is less than would appear to an outside observer. Much of what is seen is gamesmanship and attempts to apply case law in novel ways that almost, but not quite, fit the accepted facts of any given case.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18539">Mike Rinder</a>.</p>
<p>I would add with regard to the morality of legal professionals, that  it is frequently the client that is shady. The U.S. justice system, both civil and criminal, is adversarial by design and each side is expected / required by the profession to represent their client with maximum effort. In most cases, is up to the bar associations to police the ethics of the lawyers in each state.</p>
<p>Often times what appears to be a deliberate lie by an attorney is the forwarding of the truth as they understand it from their client&#8217;s side. I would suggest that the number of times an attorney deliberately lies in court is less than would appear to an outside observer. Much of what is seen is gamesmanship and attempts to apply case law in novel ways that almost, but not quite, fit the accepted facts of any given case.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lars		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18650</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Oct 2013 17:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18556&quot;&gt;Wendy M&lt;/a&gt;.

How about paying for shipping PC folders and ethics files all around
the world. Some of these people have over a 100 folders and that
could be a pretty penny.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18556">Wendy M</a>.</p>
<p>How about paying for shipping PC folders and ethics files all around<br />
the world. Some of these people have over a 100 folders and that<br />
could be a pretty penny.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anette Iren Johansen		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18645</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anette Iren Johansen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Oct 2013 13:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Bravo! It&#039;s about time the Church of Scientology addresses the accusations of misconduct rather than sidetracking the cases.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo! It&#8217;s about time the Church of Scientology addresses the accusations of misconduct rather than sidetracking the cases.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Spectator		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18593</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Spectator]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 17:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14723#comment-18593</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18540&quot;&gt;Spectator&lt;/a&gt;.

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-cases-shine-a-light-into-scientology/2145497]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18540">Spectator</a>.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-cases-shine-a-light-into-scientology/2145497" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-cases-shine-a-light-into-scientology/2145497</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Wendy M		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18562</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wendy M]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 14:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14723#comment-18562</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18558&quot;&gt;Jose Chung&lt;/a&gt;.

True. Sad....but true.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18558">Jose Chung</a>.</p>
<p>True. Sad&#8230;.but true.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wendy M		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18560</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wendy M]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 14:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14723#comment-18560</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18552&quot;&gt;Johannesburg ideal prospect&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;They claim their innocence and no wrongdoing, yet throw obstacles in the path of justice.&quot;

That says it all, JIP. Well stated.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18552">Johannesburg ideal prospect</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;They claim their innocence and no wrongdoing, yet throw obstacles in the path of justice.&#8221;</p>
<p>That says it all, JIP. Well stated.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jose Chung		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18558</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jose Chung]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 13:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14723#comment-18558</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wendy M.
Good very sound advice. Worth a Kings ransom as a fee paid to you.
But......a psychopath with platoons of lawyers will not waver in being &quot;Right&quot;
until the bodies are stacked like cordwood. History records plenty ,its a long list..]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wendy M.<br />
Good very sound advice. Worth a Kings ransom as a fee paid to you.<br />
But&#8230;&#8230;a psychopath with platoons of lawyers will not waver in being &#8220;Right&#8221;<br />
until the bodies are stacked like cordwood. History records plenty ,its a long list..</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wendy M		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18556</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wendy M]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 11:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14723#comment-18556</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have some legal advice for Miscavige. It is free advice so he will probably pour scorn on it.

1.Pay the Garcia&#039;s back every cent they donated. It was their money to start with. It was earned by them. They gave it to the church in good faith and that good faith has been betrayed. They hold the moral high ground.

2. Pay their legal costs.

3.Leave the Garcias alone evermore.

4. Pay Monique Rathbun in full. You infringed the rights of an upstanding citizen without cause.She holds the moral high ground.

5. Pay her legal costs in full.

6. Leave Monique and Marty alone evermore.

Oh who am I kidding.....? BUT if the RCS does not do this this the RCS risks the following results 

1. Paying the Garcias back every cent they donated on judgment, plus many more who will be able to rely on that precedent.

2. Paying a huge legal bill - RCS and theirs.

3. Paying Monique Rathbun in full on judgment, and RCS and her huge legal bills - driven up by RCS.

4.Losing the faith and favour of more and more and more members who will be embarrassed by the actions of the RCS and not proud or defiant or resolute. They will know of this because the press is no longer afraid to go to print/TV on the story.

The RCS has more to lose than to win.......but since they are determined to self-destruct, we will continue to watch it play out.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have some legal advice for Miscavige. It is free advice so he will probably pour scorn on it.</p>
<p>1.Pay the Garcia&#8217;s back every cent they donated. It was their money to start with. It was earned by them. They gave it to the church in good faith and that good faith has been betrayed. They hold the moral high ground.</p>
<p>2. Pay their legal costs.</p>
<p>3.Leave the Garcias alone evermore.</p>
<p>4. Pay Monique Rathbun in full. You infringed the rights of an upstanding citizen without cause.She holds the moral high ground.</p>
<p>5. Pay her legal costs in full.</p>
<p>6. Leave Monique and Marty alone evermore.</p>
<p>Oh who am I kidding&#8230;..? BUT if the RCS does not do this this the RCS risks the following results </p>
<p>1. Paying the Garcias back every cent they donated on judgment, plus many more who will be able to rely on that precedent.</p>
<p>2. Paying a huge legal bill &#8211; RCS and theirs.</p>
<p>3. Paying Monique Rathbun in full on judgment, and RCS and her huge legal bills &#8211; driven up by RCS.</p>
<p>4.Losing the faith and favour of more and more and more members who will be embarrassed by the actions of the RCS and not proud or defiant or resolute. They will know of this because the press is no longer afraid to go to print/TV on the story.</p>
<p>The RCS has more to lose than to win&#8230;&#8230;.but since they are determined to self-destruct, we will continue to watch it play out.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Blue Seagull		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18554</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Blue Seagull]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 09:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14723#comment-18554</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18539&quot;&gt;Mike Rinder&lt;/a&gt;.

Lol, Ain&#039;t that the truth. To be fair though, Mike, I met a young criminal barrister recently and couldn&#039;t resist enquiring as to the the moral dilemmas faced when either defending a guilty party or prosecuting the wrongly accused. And his initial subjective reaction was to cringe with some embarrassment. But then he pointed out that, once your &#039;lawyer; hat is on, the moral issue cannot be allowed to enter into the equation once a case is taken on. At that point it becomes a matter of pride and professionalism in carrying out the job you are being paid to do to the best of your ability. And, irrespective of the moral integrity of a case, a successful defence or prosecution is celebrated in the same way.
Interestingly too though (as it did belie some moral conscience), and conversely, he did allude to the equally awful feeling that accompanied the failed defence or successful prosecution of an apparently innocent case.
The individual lawyer - as part of a company - has no choice with regards to the cases coming his or her way. 
So I guess, the only real choice an individual has with this line of work comes right before his or her career move when they decide to enter this arena in the first place. 
Money aside then, it may not be entirely out of the question that some suppressed sympathy exists within the church&#039;s lawyers&#039; ranks.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18539">Mike Rinder</a>.</p>
<p>Lol, Ain&#8217;t that the truth. To be fair though, Mike, I met a young criminal barrister recently and couldn&#8217;t resist enquiring as to the the moral dilemmas faced when either defending a guilty party or prosecuting the wrongly accused. And his initial subjective reaction was to cringe with some embarrassment. But then he pointed out that, once your &#8216;lawyer; hat is on, the moral issue cannot be allowed to enter into the equation once a case is taken on. At that point it becomes a matter of pride and professionalism in carrying out the job you are being paid to do to the best of your ability. And, irrespective of the moral integrity of a case, a successful defence or prosecution is celebrated in the same way.<br />
Interestingly too though (as it did belie some moral conscience), and conversely, he did allude to the equally awful feeling that accompanied the failed defence or successful prosecution of an apparently innocent case.<br />
The individual lawyer &#8211; as part of a company &#8211; has no choice with regards to the cases coming his or her way.<br />
So I guess, the only real choice an individual has with this line of work comes right before his or her career move when they decide to enter this arena in the first place.<br />
Money aside then, it may not be entirely out of the question that some suppressed sympathy exists within the church&#8217;s lawyers&#8217; ranks.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Martin Padfield		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18553</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin Padfield]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Oct 2013 08:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=14723#comment-18553</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18538&quot;&gt;Live Zombie&lt;/a&gt;.

Although I know little about the US legal system it does seem peculiarly susceptible to shyster lawyer tactics that would not be given the time of day in the UK for example. However, the Judges in both these cases will be aware of the other&#039;s case, and will see a pattern emerging, if they aren&#039;t already clued up about the cult&#039;s dodgy tactics. The cult&#039;s lawyers in both cases have already used up their &quot;goodwill&quot; and lost their opening gambits so I wouldn&#039;t expect either Judge now to be too sympathetic to further stalling tactics.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/tampa-bay-times-editorial/#comment-18538">Live Zombie</a>.</p>
<p>Although I know little about the US legal system it does seem peculiarly susceptible to shyster lawyer tactics that would not be given the time of day in the UK for example. However, the Judges in both these cases will be aware of the other&#8217;s case, and will see a pattern emerging, if they aren&#8217;t already clued up about the cult&#8217;s dodgy tactics. The cult&#8217;s lawyers in both cases have already used up their &#8220;goodwill&#8221; and lost their opening gambits so I wouldn&#8217;t expect either Judge now to be too sympathetic to further stalling tactics.</p>
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