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	<title>
	Comments on: The Black Bag Department first published March 17, 2014	</title>
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	<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/</link>
	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
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		<title>
		By: Our 10th Anniversary		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-307942</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Our 10th Anniversary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Nov 2019 05:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] The Black Bag Department [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] The Black Bag Department [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: MR		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-237994</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2018 05:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16483#comment-237994</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mike have you or will you hand this article into the fbi and the police stations all over California?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike have you or will you hand this article into the fbi and the police stations all over California?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Watchful Navigator		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-40043</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Watchful Navigator]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2014 04:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16483#comment-40043</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39916&quot;&gt;Mike Rinder&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for the quick reply, Mike.

Was Miscavige concerned in any way about Freezoners spinning off versions of the tech?  

Like Geoffrey Filbert, The Pilot, Enid Vien, etc.?

Still curious on this point.

As DSA, I worked on the Alan Walter invest, but I was never sure if it was because of his tech offerings or his history with the church and LRH, that made him such a big target.  Both?  

Monty Drake was the Private Investigator whose employees would infiltrate the Knowledgism group.  I do not know of major harassment or disruption like I have heard others went through, but there was theft of trash and copies of their documents and phone lists, as well as getting disgruntled clients to pursue grievances, which is harassment, for sure.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39916">Mike Rinder</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for the quick reply, Mike.</p>
<p>Was Miscavige concerned in any way about Freezoners spinning off versions of the tech?  </p>
<p>Like Geoffrey Filbert, The Pilot, Enid Vien, etc.?</p>
<p>Still curious on this point.</p>
<p>As DSA, I worked on the Alan Walter invest, but I was never sure if it was because of his tech offerings or his history with the church and LRH, that made him such a big target.  Both?  </p>
<p>Monty Drake was the Private Investigator whose employees would infiltrate the Knowledgism group.  I do not know of major harassment or disruption like I have heard others went through, but there was theft of trash and copies of their documents and phone lists, as well as getting disgruntled clients to pursue grievances, which is harassment, for sure.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chuck Beatty		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39918</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck Beatty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2014 12:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16483#comment-39918</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39571&quot;&gt;Rod Keller&lt;/a&gt;.

I get made to think of what LRH wrote in Mission Earth, regarding the character who is the PR man satirical person (J. Warbler Madman or something like that, the top PR man that is Jettero Heller&#039;s PR),  the crazy spoof satirical PR man&#039;s name is a combination of some of the great real PR firm(s), anyways that character was madly doing wrong PR, with the intent to still ultimately just draw attention to the Jettero Heller character who is the book&#039;s hero.  .

The PR man tried to have Jettero do just horribly odd and bad things, just to get attention.  (I read all sorts of things into LRH&#039;s Mission Earth books, like in this case, LRH was blaming the GO, and LRH was letting off steam at the GO by blaming this mad PR man for bad ideas that boomeranged like in real life the GO PR people offered up bad ideas to try to put out the fires that LRH&#039;s non self realized earlier bad GO writings triggered the GO to implement for LRH, and which LRH oversaw all that spy stuff and covert stuff anyways, and was info&#039;d on all the worst of the worst anyways).   


Even though LRH&#039;s Mission Earth spoof PR man did these bad things, it did result in attention for the hero client, although badly skewed the public&#039;s image of the hero client.

LRH was being overall negative and satirical about this in Mission Earth, but in real life, LRH didn&#039;t really ever own up, I never read he finally took responsibility for the path he put the GO onto, and the results today, Marty&#039;s 3rd book has some material on the GO&#039;s downfall, the details, I think more is needed and I wish again LRH&#039;s thoughts from 1980 onwards in detail about the GO were available to see what he wrote and thought to the end of his life about the whole GO/OSA aspect of the movement.   

Again history is so tied together, for instance, whatever LRH ordered, like when he asked to have a briefing of everything in the church, the last time(s) he did so, and what info was sent him, like was info sent him regarding what OSA was to consist of, and any LRH response saying yea or nay or not saying anything at all, giving his tacit consent that OSA was naturally still needed.   I&#039;d very much like to know LRH&#039;s response to having been told that OSA was forming, on the heels of the GO, and what OSA&#039;s org board was to consist of, since LRH wrote the GO org board main functions, and LRH would have known that those functions of intel gathering and the main principles of the old GO would be being put into the new OSA org board.

I think LRH just didn&#039;t see that his orders to use those GO/OSA principles that caused the blowback, but he thought people&#039;s bad implementation of these principles he ordered to be used, which caused this blowback on Scientology.


I personally have always thought as good as the people in the GO and OSA were and are as people, sort of the cream of the dedicated crop of Scientologists in some ways, they still were doomed, based on their orders and policy they had to do.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39571">Rod Keller</a>.</p>
<p>I get made to think of what LRH wrote in Mission Earth, regarding the character who is the PR man satirical person (J. Warbler Madman or something like that, the top PR man that is Jettero Heller&#8217;s PR),  the crazy spoof satirical PR man&#8217;s name is a combination of some of the great real PR firm(s), anyways that character was madly doing wrong PR, with the intent to still ultimately just draw attention to the Jettero Heller character who is the book&#8217;s hero.  .</p>
<p>The PR man tried to have Jettero do just horribly odd and bad things, just to get attention.  (I read all sorts of things into LRH&#8217;s Mission Earth books, like in this case, LRH was blaming the GO, and LRH was letting off steam at the GO by blaming this mad PR man for bad ideas that boomeranged like in real life the GO PR people offered up bad ideas to try to put out the fires that LRH&#8217;s non self realized earlier bad GO writings triggered the GO to implement for LRH, and which LRH oversaw all that spy stuff and covert stuff anyways, and was info&#8217;d on all the worst of the worst anyways).   </p>
<p>Even though LRH&#8217;s Mission Earth spoof PR man did these bad things, it did result in attention for the hero client, although badly skewed the public&#8217;s image of the hero client.</p>
<p>LRH was being overall negative and satirical about this in Mission Earth, but in real life, LRH didn&#8217;t really ever own up, I never read he finally took responsibility for the path he put the GO onto, and the results today, Marty&#8217;s 3rd book has some material on the GO&#8217;s downfall, the details, I think more is needed and I wish again LRH&#8217;s thoughts from 1980 onwards in detail about the GO were available to see what he wrote and thought to the end of his life about the whole GO/OSA aspect of the movement.   </p>
<p>Again history is so tied together, for instance, whatever LRH ordered, like when he asked to have a briefing of everything in the church, the last time(s) he did so, and what info was sent him, like was info sent him regarding what OSA was to consist of, and any LRH response saying yea or nay or not saying anything at all, giving his tacit consent that OSA was naturally still needed.   I&#8217;d very much like to know LRH&#8217;s response to having been told that OSA was forming, on the heels of the GO, and what OSA&#8217;s org board was to consist of, since LRH wrote the GO org board main functions, and LRH would have known that those functions of intel gathering and the main principles of the old GO would be being put into the new OSA org board.</p>
<p>I think LRH just didn&#8217;t see that his orders to use those GO/OSA principles that caused the blowback, but he thought people&#8217;s bad implementation of these principles he ordered to be used, which caused this blowback on Scientology.</p>
<p>I personally have always thought as good as the people in the GO and OSA were and are as people, sort of the cream of the dedicated crop of Scientologists in some ways, they still were doomed, based on their orders and policy they had to do.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike Rinder		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39916</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Rinder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2014 11:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16483#comment-39916</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39889&quot;&gt;Watchful Navigator&lt;/a&gt;.

When I was in OSA I never heard of this person. There is no way he was a &quot;target&quot; of Miscavige. Doesnt mean someone else wasn&#039;t after him for some reason. Maybe a local DSA or something....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39889">Watchful Navigator</a>.</p>
<p>When I was in OSA I never heard of this person. There is no way he was a &#8220;target&#8221; of Miscavige. Doesnt mean someone else wasn&#8217;t after him for some reason. Maybe a local DSA or something&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: burnedbutnotbitter		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39900</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[burnedbutnotbitter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2014 05:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16483#comment-39900</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Amazing!  Thanks for the time and research on this…I did not realize all of this, makes sense now...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing!  Thanks for the time and research on this…I did not realize all of this, makes sense now&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Watchful Navigator		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39891</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Watchful Navigator]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2014 03:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16483#comment-39891</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39889&quot;&gt;Watchful Navigator&lt;/a&gt;.

Ken’s mother was Louise, the Qual Sec on the Apollo to whom LRH gave the briefing, “A Talk on a Basic Qual.”]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39889">Watchful Navigator</a>.</p>
<p>Ken’s mother was Louise, the Qual Sec on the Apollo to whom LRH gave the briefing, “A Talk on a Basic Qual.”</p>
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		<title>
		By: Watchful Navigator		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39889</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Watchful Navigator]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2014 02:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16483#comment-39889</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I would like to know if anyone knows who was started on the ops against freezoner Ken Ogger.

Every time I raise this issue amongst his &quot;friends&quot; I am shouted down.  So don&#039;t jump on me for &quot;conspiracy theory&quot; like OSA did the entire time I was their DSA.

I am talking about 1999 when Ken, a major target of DM, was outed by his wife, and then he caught someone employed at his computer tech job red-handed spying on him and sent a message to OSA warning them he knew he was being watched and he would out this guy.  This guy never showed back up the next day or later.  Therefore, it appears OSA initiated the ops.

I just want to know where this begins so we can get some partial closure.

We will assume that the later black bag ops implied by his subsequent writings were off the books and DM settled a grudge.

There is no way he was not a high-priority target, since the tech was being freed for the first time by his book &quot;Self-Clearing&quot; and RTC would have been on high alert.

Again - just looking for how the op started and who.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to know if anyone knows who was started on the ops against freezoner Ken Ogger.</p>
<p>Every time I raise this issue amongst his &#8220;friends&#8221; I am shouted down.  So don&#8217;t jump on me for &#8220;conspiracy theory&#8221; like OSA did the entire time I was their DSA.</p>
<p>I am talking about 1999 when Ken, a major target of DM, was outed by his wife, and then he caught someone employed at his computer tech job red-handed spying on him and sent a message to OSA warning them he knew he was being watched and he would out this guy.  This guy never showed back up the next day or later.  Therefore, it appears OSA initiated the ops.</p>
<p>I just want to know where this begins so we can get some partial closure.</p>
<p>We will assume that the later black bag ops implied by his subsequent writings were off the books and DM settled a grudge.</p>
<p>There is no way he was not a high-priority target, since the tech was being freed for the first time by his book &#8220;Self-Clearing&#8221; and RTC would have been on high alert.</p>
<p>Again &#8211; just looking for how the op started and who.</p>
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		<title>
		By: remoteviewed		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39867</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[remoteviewed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2014 23:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16483#comment-39867</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mike,

Thanks for the back story on all this cloak and dagger crap.

Handled some BPC.

LR]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>Thanks for the back story on all this cloak and dagger crap.</p>
<p>Handled some BPC.</p>
<p>LR</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cindy		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39857</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cindy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16483#comment-39857</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39668&quot;&gt;Mike Rinder&lt;/a&gt;.

Anyone know if Mike Graham is a double agent or plant?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-black-bag-department/#comment-39668">Mike Rinder</a>.</p>
<p>Anyone know if Mike Graham is a double agent or plant?</p>
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