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	<title>
	Comments on: The Model Ideal Org Isn&#8217;t So Model	</title>
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	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 09 Feb 2014 00:24:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: indie8Million		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34881</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[indie8Million]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Feb 2014 00:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16438#comment-34881</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34514&quot;&gt;mission guy&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes, MG/Mission Guy

Sounds like you were right there. I wonder if we know each other. 

You are so right! There was an electricity there when people were on course, in auditing and THEN, when it was BREAK time! Holy cow! Was there some COMMUNICATION going on!! 

Besides the true hope of going up the Bridge and the very standard tech, the communication might be what I miss the most.

Yes on the &quot;powermad control freaks.&quot; Cut Martin off at the knees, after he&#039;d done so much. Does anyone know how to reach Martin Samuels these days? Is he still with us?

Thanks again, MG]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34514">mission guy</a>.</p>
<p>Yes, MG/Mission Guy</p>
<p>Sounds like you were right there. I wonder if we know each other. </p>
<p>You are so right! There was an electricity there when people were on course, in auditing and THEN, when it was BREAK time! Holy cow! Was there some COMMUNICATION going on!! </p>
<p>Besides the true hope of going up the Bridge and the very standard tech, the communication might be what I miss the most.</p>
<p>Yes on the &#8220;powermad control freaks.&#8221; Cut Martin off at the knees, after he&#8217;d done so much. Does anyone know how to reach Martin Samuels these days? Is he still with us?</p>
<p>Thanks again, MG</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike Rinder		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34656</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Rinder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Feb 2014 00:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16438#comment-34656</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34652&quot;&gt;Mooser42001&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes, it means &quot;rudiments&quot; as in &quot;life rudiments&quot; or those things that are causing current upset in life that would prevent someone from being able to focus on participating in the auditing process.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34652">Mooser42001</a>.</p>
<p>Yes, it means &#8220;rudiments&#8221; as in &#8220;life rudiments&#8221; or those things that are causing current upset in life that would prevent someone from being able to focus on participating in the auditing process.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike Rinder		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34655</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Rinder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Feb 2014 00:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16438#comment-34655</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34653&quot;&gt;Mooser42001&lt;/a&gt;.

I don&#039;t think it is an accurate biography. There are plenty of errors and faulty conclusions in his book. But for those who see Hubbard as a demon it fits the bill as the perfect biography. It is no better than the hagiography the church puts out claiming everything about Hubbard was virtuous. The truth lies in between and is far more complex and nuanced than either end of the Hubbard hater/lover spectrum would care for anyone to believe.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34653">Mooser42001</a>.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it is an accurate biography. There are plenty of errors and faulty conclusions in his book. But for those who see Hubbard as a demon it fits the bill as the perfect biography. It is no better than the hagiography the church puts out claiming everything about Hubbard was virtuous. The truth lies in between and is far more complex and nuanced than either end of the Hubbard hater/lover spectrum would care for anyone to believe.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mooser42001		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34653</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mooser42001]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Feb 2014 00:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16438#comment-34653</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34477&quot;&gt;Bonnie Kittelson&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;The best thing that could happen is if their “church” status was removed by the IRS and they again became a self-help organization who’s entire purpose was to HELP people.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s a little late for that. A man named Russell Miller has published a biography of L Ron Hubbard, titled &quot;Barefaced Messiah&quot;
Now that there is an accurate biography of Hubbard, any pretense that Hubbard ever tried to &quot;help&quot; anybody can be pretty easily dispensed with.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34477">Bonnie Kittelson</a>.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;The best thing that could happen is if their “church” status was removed by the IRS and they again became a self-help organization who’s entire purpose was to HELP people.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s a little late for that. A man named Russell Miller has published a biography of L Ron Hubbard, titled &#8220;Barefaced Messiah&#8221;<br />
Now that there is an accurate biography of Hubbard, any pretense that Hubbard ever tried to &#8220;help&#8221; anybody can be pretty easily dispensed with.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mooser42001		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34652</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mooser42001]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Feb 2014 00:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16438#comment-34652</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34441&quot;&gt;Roy Macgregor&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;i&gt;&quot; People’s eyes pop open when they get ruds or run an engram. That shit is the bomb.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I assume you mistyped, and meant &quot;reads&quot; and not &quot;ruds&quot;.  Or is &quot;ruds&quot; a Scientology term I am unfamiliar with?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34441">Roy Macgregor</a>.</p>
<p><i>&#8221; People’s eyes pop open when they get ruds or run an engram. That shit is the bomb.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I assume you mistyped, and meant &#8220;reads&#8221; and not &#8220;ruds&#8221;.  Or is &#8220;ruds&#8221; a Scientology term I am unfamiliar with?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Odd Thomas		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34646</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Odd Thomas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Feb 2014 22:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16438#comment-34646</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34486&quot;&gt;Old School&lt;/a&gt;.

Gato and Old School,

From my personal experience - and I have seen a frightening amount of strange things - in this world with its current perspectives and media slants, it&#039;s really hard to TRULY turn a name into mud. Humanity seems intent upon never writing someone off completely unless they consistently demonstrate a total lack of humility or regret. Evidence the various churches, celebrities, and even consumer goods that have made miraculous comebacks.

The word Scientology and what it represents still has a chance at redemption. It will be accompanied of course, by some major mea culpas and an honest and deep-felt apology, but there is hope. However, the head of DM will have to reside on a pike outside of HQ, but that really is a small price to pay for redemption.

Otherwise Gato, I agree with you. There exists sufficient funds to pay staff a living wage that would enable them to function as real people. Policy, as an overarching concept that covered all aspects of SCN and its operations, was never feasible from the onset. Policy didn&#039;t create the successes in Milan or Miami, OC or St. Hill -- people following their hearts and their own common sense did. Ultimately people in the field created tremendous demand for the product and expansion occurred. It&#039;s no more complicated than that. It&#039;s what the Missions did as well. Huge Div 6s, accompanied by large Div 4s and a small cadre of admin people to support them. 

Theory: Auditing and being an auditor, CS or other technical person, attracted compassionate, empathetic and sensitive beings who wanted to help. Admin attracted egotistical, self-important and self-centered SOBs (in most cases)  who wanted to control others and prove themselves right. 

Admin dominated Tech throughout my tenure on staff, no matter how hard I tried to reverse the effect. STATS fed the need for Admin people and created a dominant class who focused on easy products - which by &quot;necessity&quot; excluded auditing, training, word-clearing and other like services, because they took too damn long to produce.

That&#039;s my instant why.

Odd]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34486">Old School</a>.</p>
<p>Gato and Old School,</p>
<p>From my personal experience &#8211; and I have seen a frightening amount of strange things &#8211; in this world with its current perspectives and media slants, it&#8217;s really hard to TRULY turn a name into mud. Humanity seems intent upon never writing someone off completely unless they consistently demonstrate a total lack of humility or regret. Evidence the various churches, celebrities, and even consumer goods that have made miraculous comebacks.</p>
<p>The word Scientology and what it represents still has a chance at redemption. It will be accompanied of course, by some major mea culpas and an honest and deep-felt apology, but there is hope. However, the head of DM will have to reside on a pike outside of HQ, but that really is a small price to pay for redemption.</p>
<p>Otherwise Gato, I agree with you. There exists sufficient funds to pay staff a living wage that would enable them to function as real people. Policy, as an overarching concept that covered all aspects of SCN and its operations, was never feasible from the onset. Policy didn&#8217;t create the successes in Milan or Miami, OC or St. Hill &#8212; people following their hearts and their own common sense did. Ultimately people in the field created tremendous demand for the product and expansion occurred. It&#8217;s no more complicated than that. It&#8217;s what the Missions did as well. Huge Div 6s, accompanied by large Div 4s and a small cadre of admin people to support them. </p>
<p>Theory: Auditing and being an auditor, CS or other technical person, attracted compassionate, empathetic and sensitive beings who wanted to help. Admin attracted egotistical, self-important and self-centered SOBs (in most cases)  who wanted to control others and prove themselves right. </p>
<p>Admin dominated Tech throughout my tenure on staff, no matter how hard I tried to reverse the effect. STATS fed the need for Admin people and created a dominant class who focused on easy products &#8211; which by &#8220;necessity&#8221; excluded auditing, training, word-clearing and other like services, because they took too damn long to produce.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s my instant why.</p>
<p>Odd</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jethro Bodine		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34599</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jethro Bodine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Feb 2014 10:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16438#comment-34599</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34435&quot;&gt;Mike Rinder&lt;/a&gt;.

Stevens Creek allegedly achieved &quot;St. Hill Size&quot; in 1990, but it very quickly reverted and the &quot;Universe Corps&quot; was gone by about 1992. It was stat pushed into &quot;St. Hill Size&quot; by the likes of John and Linda Allender. They each left (Linda blew), and some other key personnel left in 1991, and Stevens Creek promptly went into Non-Existence, which condition it has stayed in for the last 20 or so years. I think stat pushing takes it&#039;s toll on staff and they get burned out, so any period of &quot;expansion&quot; (stat pushing and crush regging), is soon followed by a contraction, and it stays there until more stat pushing occurrs.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34435">Mike Rinder</a>.</p>
<p>Stevens Creek allegedly achieved &#8220;St. Hill Size&#8221; in 1990, but it very quickly reverted and the &#8220;Universe Corps&#8221; was gone by about 1992. It was stat pushed into &#8220;St. Hill Size&#8221; by the likes of John and Linda Allender. They each left (Linda blew), and some other key personnel left in 1991, and Stevens Creek promptly went into Non-Existence, which condition it has stayed in for the last 20 or so years. I think stat pushing takes it&#8217;s toll on staff and they get burned out, so any period of &#8220;expansion&#8221; (stat pushing and crush regging), is soon followed by a contraction, and it stays there until more stat pushing occurrs.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cindy		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34585</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cindy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Feb 2014 02:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16438#comment-34585</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34498&quot;&gt;statpush&lt;/a&gt;.

Spot on!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34498">statpush</a>.</p>
<p>Spot on!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Odd Thomas		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34583</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Odd Thomas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Feb 2014 02:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16438#comment-34583</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34441&quot;&gt;Roy Macgregor&lt;/a&gt;.

Roy,

Very accurate. Hard to read and accept, but right on the money. I was on staff at GO WW in 1976. I got weekly reports from Milan and watched them boom out the top. Their first 3 or 4 &quot;city offices&quot; all became future CL IV Orgs. It was a wild ride for sure. They couldn&#039;t walk out the front door without tripping over someone and body-routing them in. It was the theta universe equivalent of a Vegas Hot Streak! Everything they touched turned to gold and it was a joy to watch!!

This lasted about two years as I recall - I&#039;m talking the streak. The ability to turn common sense and great observation into clears and auditors. Then FOLO EU began riding them for stats and Flag missions started arriving that bit by bit, peeled away valued staff and turned Milan into an average Org.

They were well beyond St. Hill sized and staff members were surviving well. They achieved this, not because LRH was there, but because they FOCUSED on Div 6 and Div 4. Their tech/admin ratio was spot on. Everyone was auditing.

In their Premises CSW (requesting to move into a new space) I saw pictures of bathrooms being used as auditing rooms. Broom closets, spaces under stairs, storerooms in the basement, all re-purposed for auditing rooms. THIS is what created the boom. Standard tech applied in enthusiasm with no &quot;management&#039; breathing fire and managing them into apathy.

Policy, sparingly applied with the SOLE intent on keeping auditors auditing, worked here. It worked anywhere, where it was an adjunct to Standard Tech correctly applied. It NEVER worked as an isolated subject because is was woefully incomplete. Policy + enthusiasm in the Tech + Spirit of Play + respect for auditing/training = Milan, Miami Org (early 70s) Orange County Org, (1980s) all the Orgs that bloomed.

Anyway, it was fun remembering Milan and what they created. Shoot, in its own way it was a renaissance.

Odd]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34441">Roy Macgregor</a>.</p>
<p>Roy,</p>
<p>Very accurate. Hard to read and accept, but right on the money. I was on staff at GO WW in 1976. I got weekly reports from Milan and watched them boom out the top. Their first 3 or 4 &#8220;city offices&#8221; all became future CL IV Orgs. It was a wild ride for sure. They couldn&#8217;t walk out the front door without tripping over someone and body-routing them in. It was the theta universe equivalent of a Vegas Hot Streak! Everything they touched turned to gold and it was a joy to watch!!</p>
<p>This lasted about two years as I recall &#8211; I&#8217;m talking the streak. The ability to turn common sense and great observation into clears and auditors. Then FOLO EU began riding them for stats and Flag missions started arriving that bit by bit, peeled away valued staff and turned Milan into an average Org.</p>
<p>They were well beyond St. Hill sized and staff members were surviving well. They achieved this, not because LRH was there, but because they FOCUSED on Div 6 and Div 4. Their tech/admin ratio was spot on. Everyone was auditing.</p>
<p>In their Premises CSW (requesting to move into a new space) I saw pictures of bathrooms being used as auditing rooms. Broom closets, spaces under stairs, storerooms in the basement, all re-purposed for auditing rooms. THIS is what created the boom. Standard tech applied in enthusiasm with no &#8220;management&#8217; breathing fire and managing them into apathy.</p>
<p>Policy, sparingly applied with the SOLE intent on keeping auditors auditing, worked here. It worked anywhere, where it was an adjunct to Standard Tech correctly applied. It NEVER worked as an isolated subject because is was woefully incomplete. Policy + enthusiasm in the Tech + Spirit of Play + respect for auditing/training = Milan, Miami Org (early 70s) Orange County Org, (1980s) all the Orgs that bloomed.</p>
<p>Anyway, it was fun remembering Milan and what they created. Shoot, in its own way it was a renaissance.</p>
<p>Odd</p>
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		<title>
		By: 1subgenius		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34568</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[1subgenius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=16438#comment-34568</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34510&quot;&gt;Mike Rinder&lt;/a&gt;.

Sorry for being obtuse. What I meant was I&#039;m too lazy to read them all, but from what I saw, I was impressed by the level of discourse. 
This is a good thing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org-isnt-so-model/#comment-34510">Mike Rinder</a>.</p>
<p>Sorry for being obtuse. What I meant was I&#8217;m too lazy to read them all, but from what I saw, I was impressed by the level of discourse.<br />
This is a good thing.</p>
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