+1 – Thanks, Jane. Yeah, we are it.
Also, on another post, you asked about Ivan Obalensky. I found this with a google search. It appears that he’s still living and working in Glendale. Anybody willing/able to go talk to him? Did he actually get declared or did they just kick him out of the SO?

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?15187-Ivan-Obolensky/page14

Indie 8 Mill, Wonderful post. I agreed with each word of it and it kind of blew charge for me to read it. And I agree that getting Heber and the other execs out and giving them special auditing and handling to bring them back to life would be it, but that they may never be recovered enough to hold a post even after all that. So in that case, help them, let them retire and live in peace. And while we wait for the mini Goliath to fall, we DO need to ask ourselves what can we do to keep making Scientology available in its truest form to benefit ourselves and others every day outside the church. For now we are it. There is no church, no execs capable of running it, and there is a madman at the helm. So it is up to us right now.

Hey Concerned Witness,
I duplicate all of your concerns.
I know someone who was in INCOMM at around that time and who got out before the shooting began. She told me that there was an ominous feeling about the place and she would see good people leave and never come back – with no explanation.
On the overall scene, here is one thing you have to deal with with DM. He IS a bone fide SP. As an SP, he DOES think he’s doing the greatest good for everybody.
There is no way that he thinks that anything he is doing is wrong.
I do believe that he is far to gone for correction because of the depth of his service facs.
The other Int Management people have been very much damaged by DM’s insanity. Last I heard from Karen de la Carriere, Heber has basically lost his mind and is not the person we once knew, I’m very sorry to say. The other people, I don’t know anything about them or their situation, but look at how much Debbie Cook was affected by the treatment she got in a relatively short period of time. Those guys have been in that situation for years. Even if we “rescued” them, how long would it take to help them to be fit to be on a post, much less a high pressure post?
I feel that, after that ordeal, they should have someone put together a special, technical, decompression program, possibly a PAB 6 type of handling with major nutrition and rest. They might never be ready for post again, even with that, and deserve to retire anyway.
In my opinion, it would take a major re-posting from the top down, if it could be done at all. Clean out all the mold and vermin and put in people who are trustable to DELIVER STANDARD Scientology – technically and administratively.
Possibly Diana Hubbard is in good enough shape to be corrected and given auditing to run out all the wrong indications and out-tech, to serve her dad as the ED Int or some such. A figure-head like her would give the people faith. I would think that anyone else replacing DM would make the Kool Aid drinkers think that it was just a hostile take-over.
It would be nice to be able to take the existing assets that we have all helped to build up – the buildings, the staff, the millions/billions of dollars and do exactly what needs to be done to put Scientology back in place as it should be.
Having said all that, some people will say that that’s pie in the sky thinking – and it may well be. But that’s the only way I can see that keeping the organization called, “The Church of Scientology” intact could be done.
In the meantime though, what we have is the tech of Scientology that we can use for our benefit every day and help others with. We have the Indies who are true to Ron and his tech. What we CAN do now is keep making Scientology available in its truest form until the miniature Goliath falls.
How can we all contribute to that purpose? That may be the main thing to focus on at this time.

You made me laugh, 1984. Monty Python, indeed.

Not to mention bringing his wife to the gala, as was anticipated.
We didn’t hear anything about that Mike. I guess Shelly was a no-show Cinderella at her papa’s big party?

About the ONLY effective campaign they could possibly launch, I couldn’t agree with you more. I would be among that “flood” you referred to….

Don’t forget, he also wiped out INCOMM in 1995 — left it crippled so that it could NEVER produce its intended product. Which, by the way, would by POINTING TO DM HIMSELF AS A TARGET FOR INVESTIGATION like a hunting dog if they had built it…. All the people that were qualified and could have built it were removed…. Until he is gone and that whole organizational command-channel disaster straightened out, and someone really qualified put in charge of INCOMM, and the suppression taken off the lines, that product will never get built. (My very educated opinion.)

I woke up this morning asking myself: what would LRH do if he walked in and found the disarray and complete absence of the real, sane, Scientology Ethics and Justice and on-source correction system at the top? What would LRH do if he found that? I know what I think he would do…. Of course, I am wondering if there is ANY WAY LEFT that top management can be salvaged and corrected back to what they were SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, which would make (in my opinion) EVERYONE happy, me included…. I know I would lend my energy to such a program if it looked like it was going to be effective….

I know that if correct, on-source technology were employed as it should be to straighten it out, it WOULD be straightened out. But that would mean that HE would be deeply involved in the correction, and removed from post while it was all being straightened out. And all those grossly-damaged cases of the EFFECTIVE executives straightened out and the management structure restored. Could it be done? Is there anyone left who could pull it off (with help)? I really, really, really wonder WHAT IT WOULD TAKE.

And despite all the damage and destruction that has resulted thus far, I believe that every ounce of him believes he is doing the right thing, to the best of his ability, save for that ghostly voice that probably whispers to him: “you KNOW this is off-source and LRH wouldn’t agree with it”, (or maybe he DOESN’T KNOW?) but the “other” voice then says (of course this is only my imagination, but I suspect I’m close): “you have to keep doing what you have been doing, lest you admit being WRONG and losing your power base and your cabal of untrained enforcers.”

The phrase comes to mind: “When people can’t get results from WHAT THEY THINK is standard practice, they can be counted upon to squirrel to some degree.” This is the most classic, horrible case of that I have ever witness, and right where it is the most dangerous: witness the trail of destruction caused thus far.

Mike: you were there. You witnessed (in late 1994 I believe?) first-hand when that off-source “corrective” strategy was first implemented, which “blossomed” into what it is today up-lines…. Committees of Evidence, if they are even used at all any more, what I witnessed personally, is that after he “points the bony finger”, the committee members themselves are afraid of attracting HIS attention, and so simply carry out whatever protects the committee members instead of real, sane, justice.

I’ve studied ALL the basics now on chronological sequence, and NOTHING can shake my certainty about what is at stake and the fabulous gains that are available to anyone who wants them, especially since I have made so much gain myself. “Priceless” doesn’t even begin to do it justice.

My big question, and I would sure like to discuss this, is HOW DO WE CORRECT THIS WITHOUT HURTING (on a large scale) THE GREATER sane effort, and the fabulous gains that REAL Scientology offers? I’m factually frightened of what could happen if we don’t….

“Today we are expanding like never before. Remember, just last year, one person started a course in Orange Country org and is expected to finish soon, just as soon as she can be recovered (which several people are working on). And in Washington D. C. someone has been slated to come into the org soon. In Clearwater, the Planetary Dissemination Committee is really thinking big thanks to support from the IAS with dissemination plans in full swing, getting out our message in the one place no one will expect: inside toilet bowls. Yes, the city is in for a big surprise thanks to our Universal Urinal advertising campaign, all made possible by your donations to the IAS which we need more of pretty badly. As soon as someone comes in, Flag staff will let us know. “We can’t wait to go to sleep” one of them was recently heard to say. “It can’t be long now before someone else will come in.”

Monty Python.

Sat to hear Westwood and Beverly Hills Msns are imploding and are black holes. I remember in the early 80’s when Westwood Msn was booming and had very upstat clientelle and they were hiring outside auditors for money cuz they needed more auditors to handle the heavy pc load. And now look at it. Proof that DM has driven a successful Scn enterprise right into the black hole.