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	Comments on: The Phoenix Org Is NOT Rising	</title>
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	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
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		<title>
		By: James Griffin		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-349237</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Griffin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2020 20:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=11959#comment-349237</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I got into Scientology 40 years ago.  I haven&#039;t had a problem with it in all of my years.  The material on Mike and Leah&#039;s show has a lot of negative material that I have never personally witnessed in Scientology.  Scientology is very powerful and I have had many spiritual experiences since my experience with Scientology, since I was of 18 years of age.  These spiritual experiences have proven to me that there is more to life than the physical body.  I have received back from Scientology with this knowledge far more than I could have ever given Scientology in the 1st place.  

Take a look at where the truth is where the fire is the biggest in the media on this planet Earth.  (It wasn&#039;t until Bush pushed the Iraq War with those  crazy &quot;suicide bombers&quot; that I was motivated to read the Koran. - A lot of smoke and fire before the war! ... Now, look at the truth the U.S. people found out there and the so-called &quot;WMD&#039;s - Weapons of Mass Destruction&quot;.)   How about the Scientology Freedom magazine&#039;s interview with the coroner of Jonestown Guiana? - (There were only 400+ bodies originally when he toured the Jones&#039; compound the 1st time.  (Google the interview, though it will take quite a search with all of the Google and Facebook censoring going on these days.)  

There is a lot to Scientology and those who practice discernment will look (really examine) the material to find out what it is really about.  Scientology is a mighty endeavor.  Hats off to Hubbard, my man.  Thanks again.  ... There is a great amount of fire and smoke that follow this religion just as great fire, smoke, and condemnation has always followed something good and worthwhile on this planet.   

All the best of luck on your new show Leah!  Keep the show coming.  (The better all of us do, then the better we will all ultimately get along in the end.  Love is in the end.   &#039;And in the end, the love you get is equal to the love you give,&#039; - Paul McCartney   So, I do pray you are both materially wealthy Mike, Leah, &#038; those connected to you folks.  Have all have what you most want and postulate out of life and living.  

But Mike and Leah; where do people go to realize their spiritual potential? - Can you help out with more of that part in your future escapades and shenanigans?!?  Thanks.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got into Scientology 40 years ago.  I haven&#8217;t had a problem with it in all of my years.  The material on Mike and Leah&#8217;s show has a lot of negative material that I have never personally witnessed in Scientology.  Scientology is very powerful and I have had many spiritual experiences since my experience with Scientology, since I was of 18 years of age.  These spiritual experiences have proven to me that there is more to life than the physical body.  I have received back from Scientology with this knowledge far more than I could have ever given Scientology in the 1st place.  </p>
<p>Take a look at where the truth is where the fire is the biggest in the media on this planet Earth.  (It wasn&#8217;t until Bush pushed the Iraq War with those  crazy &#8220;suicide bombers&#8221; that I was motivated to read the Koran. &#8211; A lot of smoke and fire before the war! &#8230; Now, look at the truth the U.S. people found out there and the so-called &#8220;WMD&#8217;s &#8211; Weapons of Mass Destruction&#8221;.)   How about the Scientology Freedom magazine&#8217;s interview with the coroner of Jonestown Guiana? &#8211; (There were only 400+ bodies originally when he toured the Jones&#8217; compound the 1st time.  (Google the interview, though it will take quite a search with all of the Google and Facebook censoring going on these days.)  </p>
<p>There is a lot to Scientology and those who practice discernment will look (really examine) the material to find out what it is really about.  Scientology is a mighty endeavor.  Hats off to Hubbard, my man.  Thanks again.  &#8230; There is a great amount of fire and smoke that follow this religion just as great fire, smoke, and condemnation has always followed something good and worthwhile on this planet.   </p>
<p>All the best of luck on your new show Leah!  Keep the show coming.  (The better all of us do, then the better we will all ultimately get along in the end.  Love is in the end.   &#8216;And in the end, the love you get is equal to the love you give,&#8217; &#8211; Paul McCartney   So, I do pray you are both materially wealthy Mike, Leah, &amp; those connected to you folks.  Have all have what you most want and postulate out of life and living.  </p>
<p>But Mike and Leah; where do people go to realize their spiritual potential? &#8211; Can you help out with more of that part in your future escapades and shenanigans?!?  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chuck Beatty		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2829</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck Beatty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 May 2013 02:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=11959#comment-2829</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2808&quot;&gt;Mike Rinder&lt;/a&gt;.

Standard day and foundation org splitting  does allow for moonlighting.

Squirrel day and foundation org splitting also allows for moonlighting.

It&#039;s obvious with this staff pay scene of the full time staffers, that they are squirrel splitting into this fake day and foundation schedule for the staff, to allow for moonlighting.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2808">Mike Rinder</a>.</p>
<p>Standard day and foundation org splitting  does allow for moonlighting.</p>
<p>Squirrel day and foundation org splitting also allows for moonlighting.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s obvious with this staff pay scene of the full time staffers, that they are squirrel splitting into this fake day and foundation schedule for the staff, to allow for moonlighting.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tara		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2828</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tara]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 May 2013 00:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=11959#comment-2828</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2818&quot;&gt;LDW&lt;/a&gt;.

Agree, Les. They&#039;re getting what they postulate. Not my game either.
And thanks to the writer of this report!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2818">LDW</a>.</p>
<p>Agree, Les. They&#8217;re getting what they postulate. Not my game either.<br />
And thanks to the writer of this report!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Graduated		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2826</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Graduated]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2013 12:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=11959#comment-2826</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2824&quot;&gt;Graduated&lt;/a&gt;.

Correction: Point 1, last phrase should read: &quot;. . .(backlogged) delivery will exceed  GI unless the entire brand is turned around.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2824">Graduated</a>.</p>
<p>Correction: Point 1, last phrase should read: &#8220;. . .(backlogged) delivery will exceed  GI unless the entire brand is turned around.</p>
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		<title>
		By: mirele		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2825</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mirele]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2013 12:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=11959#comment-2825</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[They should just move back to the building they were in over in Mesa back in the 1990s. It&#039;s empty again (I drive by it when I go to/from work). It sounds like that would suit their needs just fine.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They should just move back to the building they were in over in Mesa back in the 1990s. It&#8217;s empty again (I drive by it when I go to/from work). It sounds like that would suit their needs just fine.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Graduated		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2824</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Graduated]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2013 07:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=11959#comment-2824</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2805&quot;&gt;John P.&lt;/a&gt;.

I’d just like to add my two cents to Mike’s reply, having been involved in one Ideal Org evolution directly and indirectly.

1.  Yes, delivery, measured by Value of Service Delivered (VSD) exceeds Gross Income (GI) – a bad indicator. Ideally, especially in an “Ideal Org”, GI would be slightly above VSD. What’s supposed to happen is that money paid in advance for services is placed on hold in the Flag Banking Officer #1 account and not disbursed to the Org until that service has been delivered. Only then would it be counted as GI. But that is almost never the case because Orgs these days are living such a hand-to-mouth existence. Additionally, most Orgs have a delivery backlog. For decades, people have put money on account for training and/or auditing but the delivery capacity has not been there – especially with no or few auditors. So, unless that delivery backlog has been burned up by conversion to book sales or basics courses or Purification Rundowns or other easy-to-deliver Div 6 services or refunds and repayments (which also comes off the top of GI), delivery will exceed (backlogged) VSD unless the entire brand is turned around.

2.  Germany got its hiney spanked by the international community for governmental actions against Scientology – too reminiscent of Third Reich antisemitism. So the Lutheran Church/German government cabal took a lesson from the U.S. where similar governmental discrimination would have earned a thorough smack-down and went the “free press” Black Propaganda route instead. Which, in the U.S. through hack journalism, stacked talked shows and college humor “comedy” shows – contributed to in no small part by the abusive excesses of the RCS – have effectively made Scientology a laughing stock in the court of public opinion. But it is those abusive excesses that account for the mass exodus of membership, as Mike correctly alludes. Even negative press often piques curiosity because – despite how the press likes to think of itself as the molders of public opinion – most people know the press is owned by vested interests and is full of crap, almost to the point of “if the press says it’s bad, it must be good”. And since that idea is reinforced by the fact that the REALLY bad stuff gets scant coverage by the press, Scientology at least gets the benefit of the doubt. So, people will still read Scn books and research the Internet to see for themselves. Were it not for the abusive excesses of the RCS, the Church would still be enjoying record growth as it was even under the most intense COINTELPRO governmental covert interventions of the &#039;60s and &#039;70s.

3.  I would bet that the “number of staff” reported by that Phoenix staff member is accurate to the extent that that is the number of staff who have been RECRUITED for the Org. However, the number recruited seldom reflects the number actually WORKING on staff. Since an “Ideal Org” would be split into two organizations – Day and Foundation (evenings &#038; weekends), the Sea Org Mission that recruits staff  does so for both organizations before the Grand Opening with promises of a rational schedule, livable pay, Bridge services from the Universe Corp, etc., etc. as all delineated in policy. After all, an Ideal Org would of course do everything per policy, right? So, even if recruits can’t activate their (expressly volunteer) staff contract immediately and must first do a “Project Prepare” (i.e. pay off [Bridge] debts, resolve medical issues, etc.), they still get reported as on the “staff” rolls. And even if they never show up for work (or only for the Grand Opening) or slip quietly into non-participation, what CMO Missionaire is going to risk bursting DM’s bubble with the facts? So, only those who can be supported by their spouses (which is actively encouraged) show up for work – at least for awhile until internal conditions become intolerable even for them. But even then, they just go on an LOA but stay on the staff rolls.

I see no reason to fault your conclusions, especially in light of recent events.  A total implosion is therefore the RCS&#039;s ineluctable future. However, once that has occurred, I believe the brand is salvageable provided there is a thorough independent audit followed by full disclosure, accountability, transparency and major corporate cultural reforms. If that never happens, the Independent field will fill the pent-up demand. In any event, due to the brilliance and workability of the core methodologies, Scientology as a subject is unkillable. I hope that doesn&#039;t disappoint you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2805">John P.</a>.</p>
<p>I’d just like to add my two cents to Mike’s reply, having been involved in one Ideal Org evolution directly and indirectly.</p>
<p>1.  Yes, delivery, measured by Value of Service Delivered (VSD) exceeds Gross Income (GI) – a bad indicator. Ideally, especially in an “Ideal Org”, GI would be slightly above VSD. What’s supposed to happen is that money paid in advance for services is placed on hold in the Flag Banking Officer #1 account and not disbursed to the Org until that service has been delivered. Only then would it be counted as GI. But that is almost never the case because Orgs these days are living such a hand-to-mouth existence. Additionally, most Orgs have a delivery backlog. For decades, people have put money on account for training and/or auditing but the delivery capacity has not been there – especially with no or few auditors. So, unless that delivery backlog has been burned up by conversion to book sales or basics courses or Purification Rundowns or other easy-to-deliver Div 6 services or refunds and repayments (which also comes off the top of GI), delivery will exceed (backlogged) VSD unless the entire brand is turned around.</p>
<p>2.  Germany got its hiney spanked by the international community for governmental actions against Scientology – too reminiscent of Third Reich antisemitism. So the Lutheran Church/German government cabal took a lesson from the U.S. where similar governmental discrimination would have earned a thorough smack-down and went the “free press” Black Propaganda route instead. Which, in the U.S. through hack journalism, stacked talked shows and college humor “comedy” shows – contributed to in no small part by the abusive excesses of the RCS – have effectively made Scientology a laughing stock in the court of public opinion. But it is those abusive excesses that account for the mass exodus of membership, as Mike correctly alludes. Even negative press often piques curiosity because – despite how the press likes to think of itself as the molders of public opinion – most people know the press is owned by vested interests and is full of crap, almost to the point of “if the press says it’s bad, it must be good”. And since that idea is reinforced by the fact that the REALLY bad stuff gets scant coverage by the press, Scientology at least gets the benefit of the doubt. So, people will still read Scn books and research the Internet to see for themselves. Were it not for the abusive excesses of the RCS, the Church would still be enjoying record growth as it was even under the most intense COINTELPRO governmental covert interventions of the &#8217;60s and &#8217;70s.</p>
<p>3.  I would bet that the “number of staff” reported by that Phoenix staff member is accurate to the extent that that is the number of staff who have been RECRUITED for the Org. However, the number recruited seldom reflects the number actually WORKING on staff. Since an “Ideal Org” would be split into two organizations – Day and Foundation (evenings &amp; weekends), the Sea Org Mission that recruits staff  does so for both organizations before the Grand Opening with promises of a rational schedule, livable pay, Bridge services from the Universe Corp, etc., etc. as all delineated in policy. After all, an Ideal Org would of course do everything per policy, right? So, even if recruits can’t activate their (expressly volunteer) staff contract immediately and must first do a “Project Prepare” (i.e. pay off [Bridge] debts, resolve medical issues, etc.), they still get reported as on the “staff” rolls. And even if they never show up for work (or only for the Grand Opening) or slip quietly into non-participation, what CMO Missionaire is going to risk bursting DM’s bubble with the facts? So, only those who can be supported by their spouses (which is actively encouraged) show up for work – at least for awhile until internal conditions become intolerable even for them. But even then, they just go on an LOA but stay on the staff rolls.</p>
<p>I see no reason to fault your conclusions, especially in light of recent events.  A total implosion is therefore the RCS&#8217;s ineluctable future. However, once that has occurred, I believe the brand is salvageable provided there is a thorough independent audit followed by full disclosure, accountability, transparency and major corporate cultural reforms. If that never happens, the Independent field will fill the pent-up demand. In any event, due to the brilliance and workability of the core methodologies, Scientology as a subject is unkillable. I hope that doesn&#8217;t disappoint you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ian Waxler		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2823</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ian Waxler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2013 04:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=11959#comment-2823</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Your report rings all too typical and we can certainly &quot;read between the lines&quot; as we know how the shore story becomes the new &quot;reality&quot;? &quot;...60 staff...&quot;? I would guess they are counting PART-TIME &#038; even volunteer staff.. I mean hey.. if ya got someone who does a few sessions a week, ya gotta count them as a &quot;staff member&quot;, right? (With the added benefit that you don&#039;t have to pay &quot;volunteer&quot; staff!) A real eye-opener is hearing 2.5 yrs. to START any auditing? Whats that suggest about people tech trained staff?

I imagine, (not unlike in the 60&#039;s even?).. that they are content if they can pay the building expenses! Just imagine the electric bill to cool a &quot;BIG new building&quot;??? In Florida.. cooling 3500 sq.ft will run $400-500/mo. So for an even larger building? Answer? at least $600-1,000-1,500/ or more/month?) The only &quot;plus point&quot; from the &quot;empty orgs&quot; is hopefully that IF/WHEN sanity ever does return... (Ok... so show me that &quot;deed for the Brooklyn Bridge&quot; I am interested in buying!).... that maybe  the producers of delivered Scn tech will have a place to move into?  Ian Waxler, Cl. 8 C/S

PS A friend who did a &#039;walk-thro&#039; of ASHO back a year or so was all but ignored as they toured the mostly empty building... even the receptionist ! (Any chance &#039;VFP&#039; has been deleted from all admin training? ...forget about staff completions of Volume 0?)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your report rings all too typical and we can certainly &#8220;read between the lines&#8221; as we know how the shore story becomes the new &#8220;reality&#8221;? &#8220;&#8230;60 staff&#8230;&#8221;? I would guess they are counting PART-TIME &amp; even volunteer staff.. I mean hey.. if ya got someone who does a few sessions a week, ya gotta count them as a &#8220;staff member&#8221;, right? (With the added benefit that you don&#8217;t have to pay &#8220;volunteer&#8221; staff!) A real eye-opener is hearing 2.5 yrs. to START any auditing? Whats that suggest about people tech trained staff?</p>
<p>I imagine, (not unlike in the 60&#8217;s even?).. that they are content if they can pay the building expenses! Just imagine the electric bill to cool a &#8220;BIG new building&#8221;??? In Florida.. cooling 3500 sq.ft will run $400-500/mo. So for an even larger building? Answer? at least $600-1,000-1,500/ or more/month?) The only &#8220;plus point&#8221; from the &#8220;empty orgs&#8221; is hopefully that IF/WHEN sanity ever does return&#8230; (Ok&#8230; so show me that &#8220;deed for the Brooklyn Bridge&#8221; I am interested in buying!)&#8230;. that maybe  the producers of delivered Scn tech will have a place to move into?  Ian Waxler, Cl. 8 C/S</p>
<p>PS A friend who did a &#8216;walk-thro&#8217; of ASHO back a year or so was all but ignored as they toured the mostly empty building&#8230; even the receptionist ! (Any chance &#8216;VFP&#8217; has been deleted from all admin training? &#8230;forget about staff completions of Volume 0?)</p>
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		<title>
		By: breppen		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2822</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[breppen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2013 01:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=11959#comment-2822</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Excellent Obs, thank you for the report, it makes me sad as well as to what it has become.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent Obs, thank you for the report, it makes me sad as well as to what it has become.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2821</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2013 00:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=11959#comment-2821</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Just a thought -  maybe if we had more &quot;Undercover operatives&quot;  the CO$ would be afraid of new people and stop their Div 6 activities.  I don&#039;t want to see anyone more financially raked.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a thought &#8211;  maybe if we had more &#8220;Undercover operatives&#8221;  the CO$ would be afraid of new people and stop their Div 6 activities.  I don&#8217;t want to see anyone more financially raked.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rick Mycroft		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-phoenix-org-is-not-rising/#comment-2820</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rick Mycroft]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2013 00:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=11959#comment-2820</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[According to the RTC&#039;s web site list of orgs (2008), Phoenix didn&#039;t have separate day and foundation orgs.

Pasadena (PASA)
Phoenix (PHX)
Portland Day (PTLD)
Portland Foundation (PTLF)
Sacramento (SAC)
Salt Lake City (SLC)
San Diego (SD)
San Francisco Day (SFOD)
San Francisco Foundation (SFOF)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to the RTC&#8217;s web site list of orgs (2008), Phoenix didn&#8217;t have separate day and foundation orgs.</p>
<p>Pasadena (PASA)<br />
Phoenix (PHX)<br />
Portland Day (PTLD)<br />
Portland Foundation (PTLF)<br />
Sacramento (SAC)<br />
Salt Lake City (SLC)<br />
San Diego (SD)<br />
San Francisco Day (SFOD)<br />
San Francisco Foundation (SFOF)</p>
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