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	Comments on: Those Who Came Before Us	</title>
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	<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/</link>
	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
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		<title>
		By: PeaceMaker		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582480</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PeaceMaker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Jun 2024 06:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2622723#comment-582480</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582441&quot;&gt;Mike Rinder&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;ve seen it pointed out that there are about 140 local orgs, and we almost never see pictures of even 50 people at any of them.  So the math on the CofS&#039; active membership is pretty brutal, even adding in however many are clustered around Saint Hill and especially Flag in Clearwater.  

I seem to recall insider numbers pointing to maybe around 35,000 total IAS members at a point not too far in the past.  I&#039;d guess that&#039;s down to more the range you suggest, but only around half are really active, with quite a few having long ago been &quot;regged&quot; to buy lifetime memberships but not having stepped foot in an org in a long time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582441">Mike Rinder</a>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen it pointed out that there are about 140 local orgs, and we almost never see pictures of even 50 people at any of them.  So the math on the CofS&#8217; active membership is pretty brutal, even adding in however many are clustered around Saint Hill and especially Flag in Clearwater.  </p>
<p>I seem to recall insider numbers pointing to maybe around 35,000 total IAS members at a point not too far in the past.  I&#8217;d guess that&#8217;s down to more the range you suggest, but only around half are really active, with quite a few having long ago been &#8220;regged&#8221; to buy lifetime memberships but not having stepped foot in an org in a long time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Imogen		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582458</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Imogen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 May 2024 20:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2622723#comment-582458</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What an incredible website so many people to be recognized for speaking out.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an incredible website so many people to be recognized for speaking out.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LoosingMyReligion		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582453</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LoosingMyReligion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 May 2024 19:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2622723#comment-582453</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582428&quot;&gt;TrevAnon&lt;/a&gt;.

Trev, Thank you. My estimate was based on taking that small org as a sample and assuming a similar average elsewhere. The figures match up.

When I was in the Sea Org, I made an estimate of the number of first starts compared to those who stayed, and then those who stayed compared to those who actually continued for the next 2 years taking courses related to the bridge. And with each step, the number dwindled enormously. If I remember correctly, out of 30/40 first starts, after 2 years you had maybe 2 or 3 people still there.
Maybe someone more but not more than 5 out of 30/40.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582428">TrevAnon</a>.</p>
<p>Trev, Thank you. My estimate was based on taking that small org as a sample and assuming a similar average elsewhere. The figures match up.</p>
<p>When I was in the Sea Org, I made an estimate of the number of first starts compared to those who stayed, and then those who stayed compared to those who actually continued for the next 2 years taking courses related to the bridge. And with each step, the number dwindled enormously. If I remember correctly, out of 30/40 first starts, after 2 years you had maybe 2 or 3 people still there.<br />
Maybe someone more but not more than 5 out of 30/40.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike Rinder		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582441</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Rinder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 May 2024 17:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2622723#comment-582441</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582428&quot;&gt;TrevAnon&lt;/a&gt;.

I think that estimate is probably pretty accurate -- in the 70&#039;s quite a lot of people did get into scientology. 

Though the number of active members today I think is around 20-30k worldwide. Someone just sent me an AI estimation which I will publish soon...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582428">TrevAnon</a>.</p>
<p>I think that estimate is probably pretty accurate &#8212; in the 70&#8217;s quite a lot of people did get into scientology. </p>
<p>Though the number of active members today I think is around 20-30k worldwide. Someone just sent me an AI estimation which I will publish soon&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: TrevAnon		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582428</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TrevAnon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 May 2024 14:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2622723#comment-582428</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582287&quot;&gt;LoosingMyReligion&lt;/a&gt;.

In once tried to guesstimate a total number of all scientologists ever having been in, still in, deceased or whatever else.

https://forum.exscn.net/threads/estimates-for-new-members-and-total-membership.44306/

The result was something between 200,000 and 300,000. By now 3,276 have spoken out, so that&#039;s between 1 in 60  and 1 in 100.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582287">LoosingMyReligion</a>.</p>
<p>In once tried to guesstimate a total number of all scientologists ever having been in, still in, deceased or whatever else.</p>
<p><a href="https://forum.exscn.net/threads/estimates-for-new-members-and-total-membership.44306/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://forum.exscn.net/threads/estimates-for-new-members-and-total-membership.44306/</a></p>
<p>The result was something between 200,000 and 300,000. By now 3,276 have spoken out, so that&#8217;s between 1 in 60  and 1 in 100.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Newcomer		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582334</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Newcomer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 May 2024 14:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2622723#comment-582334</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582244&quot;&gt;ValR&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you Val. Everyone has their reasons and it must be dealt with personally IMHO. I applaud your conquering of your tipping point!!

Cults certainly have mastered the use of FEAR. These days my litmus test for an individual, group, government, and so on is  ONE, &quot;Are they trying to scare me?&quot;
And TWO, is it being done for MONEY, CONTROL or education. 

The last, EDUCATION, is pretty rare but there are those who do that. Mikes Blog and the Aftermath qualify and they fail the test of being a Cult ...... IMHO!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582244">ValR</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you Val. Everyone has their reasons and it must be dealt with personally IMHO. I applaud your conquering of your tipping point!!</p>
<p>Cults certainly have mastered the use of FEAR. These days my litmus test for an individual, group, government, and so on is  ONE, &#8220;Are they trying to scare me?&#8221;<br />
And TWO, is it being done for MONEY, CONTROL or education. </p>
<p>The last, EDUCATION, is pretty rare but there are those who do that. Mikes Blog and the Aftermath qualify and they fail the test of being a Cult &#8230;&#8230; IMHO!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Newcomer		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582332</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Newcomer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 May 2024 14:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2622723#comment-582332</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582259&quot;&gt;Mike Rinder&lt;/a&gt;.

Now you&#039;re talking!!  Looks like the Clive&#039;s postulate has been reached in spades. &#039;10,000 out and publicly saying so is all it will take to turn the tide&#039;. 

Yo Clive,
I was looking through yer list of Seven and Oh Tea Ate comps and had a couple questions. The first is why you list them alphabetically by first name? That seems very illiterate to me .... just sayin.
The second is that I didn&#039;t find my name on it. FWIW, I have saved my ATE cert along with all of the emails, notes, comm with ethics officers, family members, etc. that went down in the years between 2009 and 2013 (my declare year) so that my future generations of grandkids can refer to it as desired and make their own conclusions.
I&#039;m thinkin of doing a little time capsule and putting it in a safe deposit box and if they would like to receive what I intend to set aside for them, they will have to read the data and provide a written success story to the executor of the trust. 
Hope that helps with yer little &quot;on or through&quot; exercise.  
I&#039;m a big fan of the THROUGH part ..........as  I&#039;m THROUGH with yer bullshit!!!!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582259">Mike Rinder</a>.</p>
<p>Now you&#8217;re talking!!  Looks like the Clive&#8217;s postulate has been reached in spades. &#8216;10,000 out and publicly saying so is all it will take to turn the tide&#8217;. </p>
<p>Yo Clive,<br />
I was looking through yer list of Seven and Oh Tea Ate comps and had a couple questions. The first is why you list them alphabetically by first name? That seems very illiterate to me &#8230;. just sayin.<br />
The second is that I didn&#8217;t find my name on it. FWIW, I have saved my ATE cert along with all of the emails, notes, comm with ethics officers, family members, etc. that went down in the years between 2009 and 2013 (my declare year) so that my future generations of grandkids can refer to it as desired and make their own conclusions.<br />
I&#8217;m thinkin of doing a little time capsule and putting it in a safe deposit box and if they would like to receive what I intend to set aside for them, they will have to read the data and provide a written success story to the executor of the trust.<br />
Hope that helps with yer little &#8220;on or through&#8221; exercise.<br />
I&#8217;m a big fan of the THROUGH part &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.as  I&#8217;m THROUGH with yer bullshit!!!!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: LoosingMyReligion		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582287</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LoosingMyReligion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 May 2024 05:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2622723#comment-582287</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think the number of people who have left scn after at least 2 years, whether as staff or public, is much higher. In the region where I live, there is a small org, and the people I know or have met who have left the cult in the last 20 years number in the dozens. If I multiply this by all the orgs and missions in Italy, we surpass several thousand. I think the cumulative worldwide figure far exceeds hundreds and hundreds of thousands. If one were to include those who only did a couple of courses and then left, the number would become infinitely larger.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the number of people who have left scn after at least 2 years, whether as staff or public, is much higher. In the region where I live, there is a small org, and the people I know or have met who have left the cult in the last 20 years number in the dozens. If I multiply this by all the orgs and missions in Italy, we surpass several thousand. I think the cumulative worldwide figure far exceeds hundreds and hundreds of thousands. If one were to include those who only did a couple of courses and then left, the number would become infinitely larger.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike Rinder		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582259</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Rinder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 May 2024 23:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2622723#comment-582259</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582253&quot;&gt;Phillip&lt;/a&gt;.

No, poor grammar. 32,760 leavers…]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582253">Phillip</a>.</p>
<p>No, poor grammar. 32,760 leavers…</p>
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		<title>
		By: Suzie Lovell		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/those-who-came-before-us/#comment-582257</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Suzie Lovell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 May 2024 23:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2622723#comment-582257</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wow. That is incredible alot of work has gone into that. With the amount of people&#039;s names and links to thir stories. It&#039;s crazy how many people Scientology has gotten away with harming in many ways.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. That is incredible alot of work has gone into that. With the amount of people&#8217;s names and links to thir stories. It&#8217;s crazy how many people Scientology has gotten away with harming in many ways.</p>
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