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	<title>
	Comments on: Through the Bubble &#8211; Lili&#8217;s Adventures in Scientologyland Part 2	</title>
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	<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/</link>
	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
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		<title>
		By: Lili R		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-458188</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lili R]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2022 18:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2614080#comment-458188</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457864&quot;&gt;PeaceMaker&lt;/a&gt;.

At the time I learned to communicate the Scientology way, I agreed with what Richard says, that knowing the helpful steps of communication was valuable., I thought knowing all the parts of communication was one of the great secrets of the universe.
Once I left Scientology I found out just how much LRH plagiarized from others. Peacemaker, I appreciate you naming the names of who he cribbed his communication &quot;discoveries&quot; from. 
Through all the years I spent in Scientology, I believed that the communication course was the bestest, most helpful thing I ever did. In hindsight, I see the hypnotic aspect in the training drills and how the tentacles of cult control wrapped around me, while I sat eyeballs-to-eyeballs, vanquishing reactions and stopping my own thoughts.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457864">PeaceMaker</a>.</p>
<p>At the time I learned to communicate the Scientology way, I agreed with what Richard says, that knowing the helpful steps of communication was valuable., I thought knowing all the parts of communication was one of the great secrets of the universe.<br />
Once I left Scientology I found out just how much LRH plagiarized from others. Peacemaker, I appreciate you naming the names of who he cribbed his communication &#8220;discoveries&#8221; from.<br />
Through all the years I spent in Scientology, I believed that the communication course was the bestest, most helpful thing I ever did. In hindsight, I see the hypnotic aspect in the training drills and how the tentacles of cult control wrapped around me, while I sat eyeballs-to-eyeballs, vanquishing reactions and stopping my own thoughts.</p>
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		<title>
		By: PeaceMaker		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457864</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PeaceMaker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Feb 2022 18:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2614080#comment-457864</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457677&quot;&gt;Richard&lt;/a&gt;.

Richard, the Comm Course plagiarizes earlier and better sources, like all of Hubbard&#039;s &#039;work&#039;.  Particularly Carl Rogers&#039; therapeutic approach, and his communication model that underlies all legitimate modern communications theory and practice, plus arguably Dale Carnegie as well.
 
And the course is infused with cultic control elements like the extended staring exercises, and yelling at ashtrays, that can be detrimental, and actually reduce individuals&#039; ability to truly relate to and communicate with others.  There may be some things to be learned, but isn&#039;t there also quite a bit to be unlearned?

It&#039;s a very mixed bag that you can pull some &quot;good&quot; out of, but particularly when you look at where it leads, scientologists seem to end up with poor communication abilities and relationship skills, often frequently divorced and &#039;disconnected&#039; children and other close family.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457677">Richard</a>.</p>
<p>Richard, the Comm Course plagiarizes earlier and better sources, like all of Hubbard&#8217;s &#8216;work&#8217;.  Particularly Carl Rogers&#8217; therapeutic approach, and his communication model that underlies all legitimate modern communications theory and practice, plus arguably Dale Carnegie as well.</p>
<p>And the course is infused with cultic control elements like the extended staring exercises, and yelling at ashtrays, that can be detrimental, and actually reduce individuals&#8217; ability to truly relate to and communicate with others.  There may be some things to be learned, but isn&#8217;t there also quite a bit to be unlearned?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a very mixed bag that you can pull some &#8220;good&#8221; out of, but particularly when you look at where it leads, scientologists seem to end up with poor communication abilities and relationship skills, often frequently divorced and &#8216;disconnected&#8217; children and other close family.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457677</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Feb 2022 19:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2614080#comment-457677</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Factually speaking there is a lot more to communicating than just talking and listening. The Comm Course accurately describes the separate components. Anyone who ever did the Comm Course is well aware of when someone &quot;cuts their comm&quot; or when they watch sloppy communication on the television. Luckily enough most people are polite and let you finish a sentence without interrupting and many people are just naturals at communicating.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Factually speaking there is a lot more to communicating than just talking and listening. The Comm Course accurately describes the separate components. Anyone who ever did the Comm Course is well aware of when someone &#8220;cuts their comm&#8221; or when they watch sloppy communication on the television. Luckily enough most people are polite and let you finish a sentence without interrupting and many people are just naturals at communicating.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ammo Alamo		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457620</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ammo Alamo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2614080#comment-457620</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457484&quot;&gt;Lili R&lt;/a&gt;.

I once saw a video of a COS wedding.  The woman play acting as Minister had so many Acks the couple almost never got to the &quot;I Do&quot; part.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457484">Lili R</a>.</p>
<p>I once saw a video of a COS wedding.  The woman play acting as Minister had so many Acks the couple almost never got to the &#8220;I Do&#8221; part.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lili R		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457484</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lili R]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2022 17:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2614080#comment-457484</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457469&quot;&gt;Ammo Alamo&lt;/a&gt;.

I enjoyed that pithy public service announcement.
Thank you, Okay-fine, I got that. Sorry Ammo, I got restimulated and it just tripped out. But now that I&#039;m out that rarely happens.
Alright, Well-Done, Righty-O, Got it! Well, maybe I slip up now and then.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457469">Ammo Alamo</a>.</p>
<p>I enjoyed that pithy public service announcement.<br />
Thank you, Okay-fine, I got that. Sorry Ammo, I got restimulated and it just tripped out. But now that I&#8217;m out that rarely happens.<br />
Alright, Well-Done, Righty-O, Got it! Well, maybe I slip up now and then.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ammo Alamo		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457469</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ammo Alamo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2022 16:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2614080#comment-457469</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Me: She provides so much education about Scientology in such a compressed, natural way.  Just one for now: 

Lili: “Acknowledgements and Shutting You Up in a Socially Acceptable Way.”

“I assumed this Drill involved actually listening to what the person in front of me said in full…”

Me: Wrong.  Oh so very Wrong.

Lili explains why:  “What I learned on the Communication Course is that Acknowledgement is a great tool to shut someone up. Just Acknowledge the shit out of them with a smile, so they feel heard. If I had to explain some problem I was having on a Drill to the Course Supervisor and I was giving too much unwanted detail, he’d say, Fine, Good, I Got That! My eyes would go wide and I’d be struck dumb. It worked.”

Me: &quot;Please forgive me, Lili, for using your excellent article as a springboard for my rant: Used as intended, those Acks (Acknowledgements) are Thought Stoppers De Luxe, the Scilon equivalent of a mild or strident ‘STFU, you idiot. It’s my turn to talk now, because I know everything.  You must now be quiet and listen to me me me me…”

Rant, cont&#039;d: If only I could ram this endless Acking back down the proverbial throats of a couple of ex-Scilons who are big in the YouTube community:  Stop all that damn Acking!  Enough already! Give it up!  It’s just your basic LRH-indoctrinated baloney!  Stop regurgitating LRH out of your pie hole; you are supposed to be recovered from all that, so puh-l-e-e-e-z-e, stop the endless and useless Acking!  Listen to Lili – she got to the essence of the problem with Endless Acking in a very few words.  Now it’s time for everyone still in the COS-drilled habit of Neverending Acking to realize their Endless Acks are nothing but the remnants of an LRH-derived indoctrination, and It’s Not A Good Thing!

Rant, summation: If guilty, bite your thumb every time you feel an Endless Ack coming on, especially if it is in some public YT or Podcast forum, and interrupting the interviewee as they tell their personal story.  The world will be a much, much saner place with fewer needless Acks.

Again, apologies to Lili and all for interrupting the scheduled program.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me: She provides so much education about Scientology in such a compressed, natural way.  Just one for now: </p>
<p>Lili: “Acknowledgements and Shutting You Up in a Socially Acceptable Way.”</p>
<p>“I assumed this Drill involved actually listening to what the person in front of me said in full…”</p>
<p>Me: Wrong.  Oh so very Wrong.</p>
<p>Lili explains why:  “What I learned on the Communication Course is that Acknowledgement is a great tool to shut someone up. Just Acknowledge the shit out of them with a smile, so they feel heard. If I had to explain some problem I was having on a Drill to the Course Supervisor and I was giving too much unwanted detail, he’d say, Fine, Good, I Got That! My eyes would go wide and I’d be struck dumb. It worked.”</p>
<p>Me: &#8220;Please forgive me, Lili, for using your excellent article as a springboard for my rant: Used as intended, those Acks (Acknowledgements) are Thought Stoppers De Luxe, the Scilon equivalent of a mild or strident ‘STFU, you idiot. It’s my turn to talk now, because I know everything.  You must now be quiet and listen to me me me me…”</p>
<p>Rant, cont&#8217;d: If only I could ram this endless Acking back down the proverbial throats of a couple of ex-Scilons who are big in the YouTube community:  Stop all that damn Acking!  Enough already! Give it up!  It’s just your basic LRH-indoctrinated baloney!  Stop regurgitating LRH out of your pie hole; you are supposed to be recovered from all that, so puh-l-e-e-e-z-e, stop the endless and useless Acking!  Listen to Lili – she got to the essence of the problem with Endless Acking in a very few words.  Now it’s time for everyone still in the COS-drilled habit of Neverending Acking to realize their Endless Acks are nothing but the remnants of an LRH-derived indoctrination, and It’s Not A Good Thing!</p>
<p>Rant, summation: If guilty, bite your thumb every time you feel an Endless Ack coming on, especially if it is in some public YT or Podcast forum, and interrupting the interviewee as they tell their personal story.  The world will be a much, much saner place with fewer needless Acks.</p>
<p>Again, apologies to Lili and all for interrupting the scheduled program.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rebecca Hansen		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457267</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rebecca Hansen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2022 02:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2614080#comment-457267</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wow! Besides worthless and evil, Scamology is also, apparently, BORING.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Besides worthless and evil, Scamology is also, apparently, BORING.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bruce Ploetz		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457138</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce Ploetz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2022 17:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2614080#comment-457138</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Lili, I like the light-hearted approach. You have to laugh or cry, and there are too many tears already. 

For those not so familiar with the Communications Course, the drills are exactly the same as the ones they use to &quot;train&quot; Scientology counselors. And to get addicts through withdrawal. An all-purpose training regimen!

The original point was to train a counselor to stick to the script. No random ramblings in Scientology counseling! If the one being counseled, the PC, comes up with a random unrelated thought or idea, the counselor (auditor) is supposed to barrel through regardless. 

Auditor: Is there an earlier similar time you had a pain in your arm?
PC: There&#039;s a spider in your hair!
Auditor: I&#039;ll repeat the auditing command - Is there an earlier similar time you had a pain in your arm?
PC But it&#039;s about to bite you in the eye! 
Auditor (completely stoney-faced just as he drilled it for endless hours in training): I&#039;ll repeat the auditing command - Is there an earlier similar time you had a pain in your arm?

If the PC says something that isn&#039;t a random comment, like &quot;I just realized, you are my wife from 20,000 years ago!&quot; or &quot;I&#039;m about to throw up&quot; the auditor handles it with a little conversation, very scripted and limited, then gets right back to the session. The idea is that the PC is being asked to confront things he is unwilling to confront, so he needs a little help to stay on track. No other explanation is allowed. 

Think about it - if things don&#039;t go exactly as Hubbard said they would, step by perfectly scripted step, the auditor has no recourse to logic, reason or understanding. He can pull out what is called a prepared list, a bunch of generic questions like &quot;Do you have a present-time problem?&quot; If something like that comes up the list has a robotic associated &quot;handling&quot;, more scripted Hubbard authoritarian steps. 

In practice this kind of robotic mindless counseling hurts more than it helps. But most auditors I&#039;ve known don&#039;t take it 100% seriously. They are actually there to help the person and tend to bend the rules a little bit if they need to. There are recordings of Hubbard auditing, and it seems he did the same. Sometimes he completely pretzeled the rules and then came out with a new bulletin explaining new rules. 

Miscavige, however, never made it as an auditor. The story is he actually struck a PC in session. Don&#039;t know if that&#039;s true, but certainly as soon as he was firmly in charge he took the robotic drilling aspect to the maximum and killed any tiny trace of creativity or empathy he found. Not that Scientology was ever really good for anyone, but now it is actively destructive.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Lili, I like the light-hearted approach. You have to laugh or cry, and there are too many tears already. </p>
<p>For those not so familiar with the Communications Course, the drills are exactly the same as the ones they use to &#8220;train&#8221; Scientology counselors. And to get addicts through withdrawal. An all-purpose training regimen!</p>
<p>The original point was to train a counselor to stick to the script. No random ramblings in Scientology counseling! If the one being counseled, the PC, comes up with a random unrelated thought or idea, the counselor (auditor) is supposed to barrel through regardless. </p>
<p>Auditor: Is there an earlier similar time you had a pain in your arm?<br />
PC: There&#8217;s a spider in your hair!<br />
Auditor: I&#8217;ll repeat the auditing command &#8211; Is there an earlier similar time you had a pain in your arm?<br />
PC But it&#8217;s about to bite you in the eye!<br />
Auditor (completely stoney-faced just as he drilled it for endless hours in training): I&#8217;ll repeat the auditing command &#8211; Is there an earlier similar time you had a pain in your arm?</p>
<p>If the PC says something that isn&#8217;t a random comment, like &#8220;I just realized, you are my wife from 20,000 years ago!&#8221; or &#8220;I&#8217;m about to throw up&#8221; the auditor handles it with a little conversation, very scripted and limited, then gets right back to the session. The idea is that the PC is being asked to confront things he is unwilling to confront, so he needs a little help to stay on track. No other explanation is allowed. </p>
<p>Think about it &#8211; if things don&#8217;t go exactly as Hubbard said they would, step by perfectly scripted step, the auditor has no recourse to logic, reason or understanding. He can pull out what is called a prepared list, a bunch of generic questions like &#8220;Do you have a present-time problem?&#8221; If something like that comes up the list has a robotic associated &#8220;handling&#8221;, more scripted Hubbard authoritarian steps. </p>
<p>In practice this kind of robotic mindless counseling hurts more than it helps. But most auditors I&#8217;ve known don&#8217;t take it 100% seriously. They are actually there to help the person and tend to bend the rules a little bit if they need to. There are recordings of Hubbard auditing, and it seems he did the same. Sometimes he completely pretzeled the rules and then came out with a new bulletin explaining new rules. </p>
<p>Miscavige, however, never made it as an auditor. The story is he actually struck a PC in session. Don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s true, but certainly as soon as he was firmly in charge he took the robotic drilling aspect to the maximum and killed any tiny trace of creativity or empathy he found. Not that Scientology was ever really good for anyone, but now it is actively destructive.</p>
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		<title>
		By: otherles		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/through-the-bubble-lilis-adventures-in-scientologyland-part-2/#comment-457122</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[otherles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2022 14:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2614080#comment-457122</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[After I graduated from High School I used the proceeds of my part time janitorial job (where Hubbard&#039;s method of washing windows was NEVER used) to pay for the tuition for tech school. Telling two Marine Corps recruiters to politely shove off was an interesting experience.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After I graduated from High School I used the proceeds of my part time janitorial job (where Hubbard&#8217;s method of washing windows was NEVER used) to pay for the tuition for tech school. Telling two Marine Corps recruiters to politely shove off was an interesting experience.</p>
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