Haha! Well, thanks for that Mike. All I ever (really) said originally was that there are actual OT Levels in existence. As to your belittling of them, well, whatever… I can’t be bothered to counter. Lastly as far as I recall the COHA processes are not creative processes at all and many of the processes from COHA are found in the Expanded Grades checklists. But, whatever…

Foolproof, you just have to beat everything to death to try to prove your erroneous statements.

So, to help everyone out to understand your obsession with the “old” REAL OT Levels, here is the old OT IV Rundown:

OT IV RUNDOWN
Done only by an auditor on a case fully set up by various directions.
1. Ruds or GF to F/N.
2. Rehab drugs.
3. Valence shifter “What valence would be safe ?”
4. Rehab ARC Straightwire to Grade IV.
5. Rehab R6EW to OT II.
6. Prepcheck OT III.
7. Rehab OT V and VI.
8. Run “What has been overrun ?”
9. Run “What can you confront ?”

Now, if ever there was truly an “OT level” that you had to pay through the nose for, this is IT. Rehabs of earlier auditing, a command about valences and checking overrun. Wowee zowee. THIS is what you are arguing about?

And here is the “Old OT 5” that was guaranteed to bring you to a state of “Cause Over MEST.”

OT 5-1
A) Fly Ruds if needed.
B) Pre OT is to lie down in a comfortable position with eyes shut.

1) Spot a spot in the room
2) Spot a spot in your body

Alternate command 1 and 2 until process is flat (Cognition, VGIs, No more change), then

3) Spot two spots in your body
4) Spot two spots outside

Alternate until flat, then

5) Spot a spot outside
6) Spot a spot on the sun
(Notice the difference between).
Alternate until flat, then

7) Spot two spots outside
8) Spot two spots on the sun
(Notice what happens).
Alternate until flat.

You may exteriorize or be exterior during these drills but don’t have to.

C) With your eyes still shut in a comfortable position indoors do the following commands and write down any major cognitions.

9) Spot an object in the room
10) Spot an object outside
11) Locate a moving object
12) Locate a spot in your body
13) Spot a motion
14) Locate a space
15) Spot a Being

Continue the above steps in sequence until major cognition with very good indicators, or until exteriorization occurs.

OT 5-2
Pre OT is to lie down in a comfortable position with eyes shut.

A) Create an illusion ( condition, energy or object )
Then
B) Conserve it
Protect it
Control it
Hide it
Change it
Age it
Make it go backwards on a cycle of action
Perceive it with all perceptions
Shift it in time at will
Rearrange it
Duplicate it
Turn it upside down
Turn it on its’ side
Make it obey MEST laws at will
Be it
Not be it
Destroy it
Mock it up and un-mock it at will

C) Repeat steps (A) and (B) to a major cognition.

OT 5-3 (done outside)

A) Put your attention on an object that is ahead of you – like a parked car, lamp post, etc and walk towards it, noticing the distance between you and it. Continue to do this until cognition.
B) Pick out an object ahead of you and wrap an energy beam around it and yourself and pull yourself toward the object by shortening the beam. Notice what happens.
C) Locate an object, draw energy from it into you. Repeat at least ten times. Note any cognitions.
D) Locate an object as above and walk toward it. Notice what is holding you to it.
E) Locate a cloud and notice the space between you and it.
F) Notice your body
G) Walk and notice the change in viewpoint
H) Notice the motion of the earth and your relationship to it
I) Notice something about 10 people

Repeat the above steps to a major cognition.

ATTEST TO OT 5

Once again, you can hammer away at this to your heart’s content Foolproof. It is some pretty impressive stuff that is REALLY OT. But I would actually recommend Route 1 and Route 2 in COHA, they seem much more “OT” than this.

Old OT 6 is pretty much Route 1 from COHA. I can post it if you don’t have it available.

This is really what you are arguing about?

You also know that the processes from COHA are all what Hubbard termed “Creative Processes”? You know he also canceled Creative Processing too don’t you?

Well, No-Wynski, since NOTs was being delivered since 1978 and since I know auditors who told me that these levels were still being delivered in the 1980s at AOLA obviously means that they weren’t “shit-canned”. They are now not delivered. But what then is your daft point? What do you hope to achieve by blathering on about all this? The fact remains that there are other OT levels! As for your vehement use of the phrase “shit-canned” of course they were never “shit-canned” as you well know but just withdrawn until people finished NOTs or until Miscavige and Mithoff presumably re-releases or re-packages them.

You are of course deflecting and missing the point purposefully I assume. I don’t give a fig whether they were delivered or not (but they were) but the fact remains that there are other OT Levels. Sorry about that if it ruins your little party piece. And why would I lie about something that is totally unimportant to the main point? And actually why would I lie at all? The basis of most of my comments is based on the reality and truth of situations which many of you don’t like to hear. And you should really calm down and not spend time trying to dissect unimportant aspects of my comments, because of and primarily, the fact is, no matter what daft slant you put on it – there are at least 4 other actual OT Levels known about.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

No Fool, you said, “In fact AOLO were even still delivering them in the 1980s after the advent of NOTs. Old OT 4-7 were never “shit-canned” – this is just your… ”

Which is FALSE. When NOTS was being delivered at AOLA Hubtard had already issued the new HCOB for the grade chart REMOVING those OT levels from the GRADE CHART and the AO’s & FSO CEASED delivering them at that time. LRH SHIT CANNED the original OT levels 4, 5, 6, 7 & ordered 7ep & 3x to be only used as I indicated above.

So, anyway you twist and turn, you are lying.

Haha -Wnyski chipping in now as well. Yes, No-Wynski, by the mid to late 80s AOLA had probably given up delivering the “old” OT Levels, but then I didn’t say “mid to late 1980s” did I! Very clever how statements are twisted so you can fit in that I am “lying”.

And Mike, I didn’t actually call you “OSA” just mentioned your OSA training. Your original comment was that there are no OT Levels – I simply pointed out that there are 4 we know about and another 10+ that Hubbard mentions and others have stated do exist. Including David Mayo by the way.

Keep calm and carry on!

Yes, I know. I have a good mind to post these old OT levels here so everyone can understand what he is so excited about.

Creation of Human Ability contains stuff beyond these OT levels — that book, still sold as part of the basics, was essentially the “OT levels” beyond OT 3 til Hubbard made the big discovery after researching hundreds of cases (actually his research consisted of telling David Mayo to try things on him in session) that there were more, many, many, many more BTs and Clusters he had not noticed were still dictating his actions since he completed OT 3 in 1967. What a revelation!

I’ll correct a lie from the Fool here Mike. In the mid-late 80’s old OT 4-7 were NOT on the line up at AOLA. (I knew the Solo C/Ses & Snr C/S (Sandy W.) and I discussed this exact topic.

They DID C/S some people for OT 7 E.P. if they had previously done “old” OT 7 and needed a repair. And same with old OT 3X as a repair action. Both were rare.

OK, so you have the “old OT levels” (your terminology, not mine) to make you a real OT. What more could you need? You should be cause over Matter, Energy, Space and Time according to LRH. You don’t appear to be. You don’t seem to be cause over some commenters on a blog and are afraid to use your real name? How can this be? You are the champion of standard tech?

You simply resort to calling me OSA whenever you feel like you are losing an argument. Poor show Foolproof.

I think I will check with Julie Mayo if she ever heard David say such a thing. I will let you know what she says.

Those people don’t need to come forward for me, I could care less if there are any more OT levels. They need to come forward for people like you, who are hoping they miraculously appear before you shuffle off your mortal coil. It’s the insatiable hope of the true believer for the final answer that will take you to whatever your idea of freedom is. You should be spending your time trying to get these people to reveal the secrets, not wasting time commenting on a blog… This is getting you nowhere.

Your OSA training holds you in good stead – your comment is “how to cover up the fact of losing an argument by bending the words of the former argument” – something like that – it is so devious that it is hard to describe.

Firstly the New OT Levels never “replaced” the “old” OT Levels as you well know. In fact AOLO were even still delivering them in the 1980s after the advent of NOTs. Old OT 4-7 were never “shit-canned” – this is just your expression to now try and hide the fact that other OT levels are in existence despite your statement that they weren’t.

As to the David Mayo thing and LRH = OT11, I don’t have the reference to hand nor saved but that is exactly what I read. I don’t lie unlike most your commenters – haha!

As to the other people (who saw he materials) they are hardly likely to “step forward” on a blog like this just to assuage your’s and Wynski’s concerns about things, are they?