In one of his more famous brags about his research and discoveries, L. Ron Hubbard wrote the following in the introduction to his bizarre 1951 book History of Man.
This is a cold-blooded and factual account of your last sixty trillion years.
The test of any knowledge is its usefulness. Does it make one happier or more able? By it and with it, can he better achieve his goals ?
This is useful knowledge. With it the blind again see, the lame walk, the ill recover, the insane become sane and the sane become saner. By its use the thousand abilities Man has sought to recover become his once more.
…
This work is honest research, done with considerable care. And it will bear up under survey by any competent auditor or investigator. The most amusing aspect of the “whole track” is that this work bears up under the onslaught of police lie-detector experts: these, hard-eyed and uncompromising, become startled half out of their wits to discover that some of the crimes they find on their machines were committed two or three “lives” ago by the criminal under test, and that, most alarmingly, the crimes so discovered are discoverable again to the last detail in the police archives. This is very upsetting to these operators, to be informed so bluntly that Man lives many years, not three score and ten, and that today’s lifer may again be on their hands tomorrow as a juvenile delinquent! Gravestones, ancient vital statistics, old diplomas and medals will verify in every detail the validity of “many lifetimes.” Your E-meter will tell you.
But the book itself provides an interesting insight into Hubbard’s claims of “honest research, done with considerable care.”
All one need to do is check the fruits of his “honest research” in the section of the book entitled The Piltdown Man.
Here honest researcher Ron describes part of the “cold-blooded and factual account” of your history, when you were a “Piltdown.”
Man’s first real Manhood is found in the PILTDOWN, a creature not an ape, yet not entirely a Man. It is so named not because it is accurately the real Piltdown Man but because it has some similarity.
The PILTDOWN contains freakish acts of strange “logic,” of demonstrating dangerous on one’s fellows, of eating one’s wife and other somewhat illogical activities. The PILTDOWN teeth were ENORMOUS and he was quite careless as to whom and what he bit and often very much surprised at the resulting damage.
Obsessions about biting, efforts to hide the mouth and early familial troubles can be found in the PILTDOWN. It is a wonderful area in which to locate GE overt acts.
Honest Ron’s research bubble was burst when it was disclosed that the Piltdown Man was a hoax in 1953.
This is the first line of the Wikipedia entry:
The Piltdown Man was a paleoanthropological hoax in which bone fragments were presented as the fossilised remains of a previously unknown early human.
Despite this, Hubbard never corrected his assertion about the “cold-blooded and factual account” of his research using the E-Meter that had uncovered the incident called “Piltdown Man.” Obviously, there was no such “incident” in anyone’s “past life” that he had uncovered.
Yet, Hubbard continued to sell the book, never removing this passage. It is still sold by scientology today, In fact, all scientologists are required to read it as part of “the Basics”…I guess the problem is that the Piltdown is no different than of the other claims of man’s history consisting of life as a clam on the beach or a sloth in a tree. Fiction as science from the self-proclaimed science as fiction pioneer.
Oh! here we go again. Mike, I suggest you Method 9 word clear the following: “It is so named not because it is accurately the real Piltdown Man but because it has some similarity.” If he’d written “it has some similarity to Dracula or Frankenstein, (both made-up creatures) one would have still gotten the idea eh? Sit down tonight and your Mrs can M9 you, like in the good old days?
Next you will be promoting that Hubbard said one will spontaneously combust if you do OTVIII wrongly!
Why are you afraid of signing your real name Foolproof?
I find there is only one of two reasons:
You are really out of the church and are defending yourself and loved ones from being punished.
Or
You are OSA.
Being that you are NEVER in agreement with any criticism of Hubbard I’d say you are a bubble dweller because you do not have any original thoughts.
You are apparently sent here to fight SPs. You are here to upset SPs. That is your stat.
But in truth, you are an interesting specimen for observation. I hope you can free yourselves one day. I really do ??
Both wrong Brian, like your decision to run OTIII without a meter and without doing prior steps. But keep on trying to deflect attention off your ridiculous antics though.
Hey Foolproof. I’m OT V so I can’t be overwhelmed by any demonstration of your OT abilities (it won’t be an overt on your part).
I am holding an arm in the air over my head. Using any OT ability to accomplish the task, tell me which arm I have raised and how many fingers I have extended.
Two abilities which would make this possible is Exteriorization and the ability to increase the width of present time.
If you cannot do this then anything you can do which would convince me that you do, in fact, have some OT ability would suffice.
Oh! Here’s another one who thinks he has discovered some sort of Scientology Achilles Heel! OTV eh? Didn’t they tell you in Flag or the AO that OTV is a Pre-OT Level? The real OT Levels have not been released as yet by Mike’s old mate Miscavige for whatever reason. And tell me, when you were receiving your OT5 at Flag did you tell them your critical thoughts or were you audited over them?Which would of course disqualify you as being PTS A-J.
As to actual OT Levels I did the old OT7 and was indeed doing OT tricks, but as you are not up to it yet, being a Pre-OT I’ll let you get up there first.
What fingers am I holding up to you now then?
So before coming on here and spouting your nonsense, learn a little more about Scientology before you do.
Well, actually, the “real” OT levels dont’ exist (unless you count the failure that is OT VIII). Hubbard claimed he had them, but you are going to be waiting for an eternity because they were a figment of his imagination. he was still trying to cure himself of BT’s to his last days, he was stuck in the “pre-OT” band apparently.
The promotion for OT V from Hubbard himself was that this was “living lightning” that would put you “at cause over life”… It’s NEVER been downplayed by him. You downplay it, but that is apparently to justify the lack of results.
The fact that the “old” (and real) OT Levels 4-7 exist immediately negates your oft-repeated theory on here about the existence of (other) OT levels. According to David Mayo Hubbard had attained OT11. Who are we to believe then Sarj Whatever-his-Name or the former Senior C/S INT? Or L. Ron Hubbard who states “there are 15 levels above OT7” – or Mike RInder who says “they don’t exist (I don’t really know but it suits my agenda to say so)”. I know other people who have seen the materials.
Go on hoping Foolproof. It was Hubbard himself who replaced “old” OT 4 to 7. You don’t think he developed and announced NOTs with huge fanfare and didnt know the “old” OT 4 to 7 were shit-canned? I guess his powers of observation were muddled for the last 6 years of his life?
Please cite me where David Mayo said Hubbard had attained OT 11. I have never heard this before and I am very interested in this new piece of information.
And also, who the “other people” are that have “seen the materials”? They need to step forward as nobody can find these things, in spite of what Hubbard said (you know he also said he didn’t have a second wife and many other things that are provenly false?)
Your OSA training holds you in good stead – your comment is “how to cover up the fact of losing an argument by bending the words of the former argument” – something like that – it is so devious that it is hard to describe.
Firstly the New OT Levels never “replaced” the “old” OT Levels as you well know. In fact AOLO were even still delivering them in the 1980s after the advent of NOTs. Old OT 4-7 were never “shit-canned” – this is just your expression to now try and hide the fact that other OT levels are in existence despite your statement that they weren’t.
As to the David Mayo thing and LRH = OT11, I don’t have the reference to hand nor saved but that is exactly what I read. I don’t lie unlike most your commenters – haha!
As to the other people (who saw he materials) they are hardly likely to “step forward” on a blog like this just to assuage your’s and Wynski’s concerns about things, are they?
OK, so you have the “old OT levels” (your terminology, not mine) to make you a real OT. What more could you need? You should be cause over Matter, Energy, Space and Time according to LRH. You don’t appear to be. You don’t seem to be cause over some commenters on a blog and are afraid to use your real name? How can this be? You are the champion of standard tech?
You simply resort to calling me OSA whenever you feel like you are losing an argument. Poor show Foolproof.
I think I will check with Julie Mayo if she ever heard David say such a thing. I will let you know what she says.
Those people don’t need to come forward for me, I could care less if there are any more OT levels. They need to come forward for people like you, who are hoping they miraculously appear before you shuffle off your mortal coil. It’s the insatiable hope of the true believer for the final answer that will take you to whatever your idea of freedom is. You should be spending your time trying to get these people to reveal the secrets, not wasting time commenting on a blog… This is getting you nowhere.
I’ll correct a lie from the Fool here Mike. In the mid-late 80’s old OT 4-7 were NOT on the line up at AOLA. (I knew the Solo C/Ses & Snr C/S (Sandy W.) and I discussed this exact topic.
They DID C/S some people for OT 7 E.P. if they had previously done “old” OT 7 and needed a repair. And same with old OT 3X as a repair action. Both were rare.
Yes, I know. I have a good mind to post these old OT levels here so everyone can understand what he is so excited about.
Creation of Human Ability contains stuff beyond these OT levels — that book, still sold as part of the basics, was essentially the “OT levels” beyond OT 3 til Hubbard made the big discovery after researching hundreds of cases (actually his research consisted of telling David Mayo to try things on him in session) that there were more, many, many, many more BTs and Clusters he had not noticed were still dictating his actions since he completed OT 3 in 1967. What a revelation!
Haha -Wnyski chipping in now as well. Yes, No-Wynski, by the mid to late 80s AOLA had probably given up delivering the “old” OT Levels, but then I didn’t say “mid to late 1980s” did I! Very clever how statements are twisted so you can fit in that I am “lying”.
And Mike, I didn’t actually call you “OSA” just mentioned your OSA training. Your original comment was that there are no OT Levels – I simply pointed out that there are 4 we know about and another 10+ that Hubbard mentions and others have stated do exist. Including David Mayo by the way.
Keep calm and carry on!
No Fool, you said, “In fact AOLO were even still delivering them in the 1980s after the advent of NOTs. Old OT 4-7 were never “shit-canned” – this is just your… ”
Which is FALSE. When NOTS was being delivered at AOLA Hubtard had already issued the new HCOB for the grade chart REMOVING those OT levels from the GRADE CHART and the AO’s & FSO CEASED delivering them at that time. LRH SHIT CANNED the original OT levels 4, 5, 6, 7 & ordered 7ep & 3x to be only used as I indicated above.
So, anyway you twist and turn, you are lying.
Well, No-Wynski, since NOTs was being delivered since 1978 and since I know auditors who told me that these levels were still being delivered in the 1980s at AOLA obviously means that they weren’t “shit-canned”. They are now not delivered. But what then is your daft point? What do you hope to achieve by blathering on about all this? The fact remains that there are other OT levels! As for your vehement use of the phrase “shit-canned” of course they were never “shit-canned” as you well know but just withdrawn until people finished NOTs or until Miscavige and Mithoff presumably re-releases or re-packages them.
You are of course deflecting and missing the point purposefully I assume. I don’t give a fig whether they were delivered or not (but they were) but the fact remains that there are other OT Levels. Sorry about that if it ruins your little party piece. And why would I lie about something that is totally unimportant to the main point? And actually why would I lie at all? The basis of most of my comments is based on the reality and truth of situations which many of you don’t like to hear. And you should really calm down and not spend time trying to dissect unimportant aspects of my comments, because of and primarily, the fact is, no matter what daft slant you put on it – there are at least 4 other actual OT Levels known about.
So put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Foolproof, you just have to beat everything to death to try to prove your erroneous statements.
So, to help everyone out to understand your obsession with the “old” REAL OT Levels, here is the old OT IV Rundown:
OT IV RUNDOWN
Done only by an auditor on a case fully set up by various directions.
1. Ruds or GF to F/N.
2. Rehab drugs.
3. Valence shifter “What valence would be safe ?”
4. Rehab ARC Straightwire to Grade IV.
5. Rehab R6EW to OT II.
6. Prepcheck OT III.
7. Rehab OT V and VI.
8. Run “What has been overrun ?”
9. Run “What can you confront ?”
Now, if ever there was truly an “OT level” that you had to pay through the nose for, this is IT. Rehabs of earlier auditing, a command about valences and checking overrun. Wowee zowee. THIS is what you are arguing about?
And here is the “Old OT 5” that was guaranteed to bring you to a state of “Cause Over MEST.”
OT 5-1
A) Fly Ruds if needed.
B) Pre OT is to lie down in a comfortable position with eyes shut.
1) Spot a spot in the room
2) Spot a spot in your body
Alternate command 1 and 2 until process is flat (Cognition, VGIs, No more change), then
3) Spot two spots in your body
4) Spot two spots outside
Alternate until flat, then
5) Spot a spot outside
6) Spot a spot on the sun
(Notice the difference between).
Alternate until flat, then
7) Spot two spots outside
8) Spot two spots on the sun
(Notice what happens).
Alternate until flat.
You may exteriorize or be exterior during these drills but don’t have to.
C) With your eyes still shut in a comfortable position indoors do the following commands and write down any major cognitions.
9) Spot an object in the room
10) Spot an object outside
11) Locate a moving object
12) Locate a spot in your body
13) Spot a motion
14) Locate a space
15) Spot a Being
Continue the above steps in sequence until major cognition with very good indicators, or until exteriorization occurs.
OT 5-2
Pre OT is to lie down in a comfortable position with eyes shut.
A) Create an illusion ( condition, energy or object )
Then
B) Conserve it
Protect it
Control it
Hide it
Change it
Age it
Make it go backwards on a cycle of action
Perceive it with all perceptions
Shift it in time at will
Rearrange it
Duplicate it
Turn it upside down
Turn it on its’ side
Make it obey MEST laws at will
Be it
Not be it
Destroy it
Mock it up and un-mock it at will
C) Repeat steps (A) and (B) to a major cognition.
OT 5-3 (done outside)
A) Put your attention on an object that is ahead of you – like a parked car, lamp post, etc and walk towards it, noticing the distance between you and it. Continue to do this until cognition.
B) Pick out an object ahead of you and wrap an energy beam around it and yourself and pull yourself toward the object by shortening the beam. Notice what happens.
C) Locate an object, draw energy from it into you. Repeat at least ten times. Note any cognitions.
D) Locate an object as above and walk toward it. Notice what is holding you to it.
E) Locate a cloud and notice the space between you and it.
F) Notice your body
G) Walk and notice the change in viewpoint
H) Notice the motion of the earth and your relationship to it
I) Notice something about 10 people
Repeat the above steps to a major cognition.
ATTEST TO OT 5
Once again, you can hammer away at this to your heart’s content Foolproof. It is some pretty impressive stuff that is REALLY OT. But I would actually recommend Route 1 and Route 2 in COHA, they seem much more “OT” than this.
Old OT 6 is pretty much Route 1 from COHA. I can post it if you don’t have it available.
This is really what you are arguing about?
You also know that the processes from COHA are all what Hubbard termed “Creative Processes”? You know he also canceled Creative Processing too don’t you?
Haha! Well, thanks for that Mike. All I ever (really) said originally was that there are actual OT Levels in existence. As to your belittling of them, well, whatever… I can’t be bothered to counter. Lastly as far as I recall the COHA processes are not creative processes at all and many of the processes from COHA are found in the Expanded Grades checklists. But, whatever…
I’m actually surprised that El Con Sluggard even knew how to spell “honesty.”
So you found something here that was wrong,…… but what is right in this book – LRH talks about dub in, and so on, we all know he was not the man that could admit his errors, at times an old grumpy and evil dude.
Lets take a look at the many stories about life between line, Soul Contracts, OBE,s and NEAR DEATH Studies. Here you find stuff, scenarists that LRH talk about. Take the whole Annunaki Storie, descibed in the ancient Sumerians tablets. You find this in described to some degree in Battlefields earth.
I am declared SP, not really that interested in Scientology, and for sure not the “church”. But I like to see things at a fair level, and I am not into scoring cheap points, for some outpoint I find here an there. I think you should lean back at look at this subject from a more broad perspective.
Sure he was all the swearwords you can think of, but he had his points and great observations too.
I agree, sometimes he could be insightful and super inspiring. But these qualities also make him dangerous. Sorting out the lies from truth is daunting. Hubbard needs to be dismantled in my view, not praised.
Yes, like you, I think OTIII should be done without a meter sitting on one’s back porch, drinking a few beers, a few tokes as well of course, and wait and see what happens!
Just think of it this way Foolproof: doing OT3 for me was like going to a party. I would have a sip of beer then I’d blow of a cluster. Sip of beer blow off a cluster. What fun!
Then I’d light up a joint in order to coax my druggie BTs to surface. Then I’d allow them to enjoy being stoned vicariously though me for a few minutes (I’m a compassionate guy) then I’d blow them off and tell them to get a body and buy Scientology, or just generally fuck off and leave me alone.
I got so intimate with my BTs. One was called Bob. Bob was attached to me emotionally and did not want to leave. I told him he could stay. He was a really nice trapped being. I allowed him to reside in my sphincter as he enjoyed tight spaces. It made him feel more secure, like a baby tightly wrapped in a blanky.
Im getting bummed though that it never seems to come to an end. The more I think there are BTs the more there are! How interesting.
Then I think,”what would Ron do?” It was then I realized how insignificant the body is and then and there I made a decision to throw my body off a cliff to free all my beloved BTs.
Thanks for the guidance Ron. At this time in our society suicide is looked down upon. This low level planet is too stupid to see how suicidal thoughts are the road to Total Freedom. BTs love their body hosts killing themselves.
Thank you Ron, I could have never done it without your guidance.
Hip hip!
Poor old Brian is desperately trying to be funny to cover up being the laughing stock of running OTIII without a meter and without prior setups. I tell you what Brian, you stop making ridiculous remarks about the tech and I’ll stop making fun of your ridiculous attempts to “apply” it. Deal?
It’s hard for us to take you seriously FP. You are in the bubble talking bubble talk. Blub blub blub lol.
I think when your stats are down, your bosses send you here to make amends.
I think you should try harder to be sarcastic and passive aggressive. Maybe you can get yourself out of your lower condition by being a more of a true believer and going into power by being negative.
Oh I get it, keep talking to me about OT3. Maybe I’ll get restimulated and I’ll jump out the window. That would put your stats in power. Killing SPs! Thank you Jesus!
That’s why you keep bringing OT3 up to me. You believe everything Hubbard says about it and you believe you are restimulating me.
Your essence of argument is that the tooth fairy is real. It’s difficult to have an adult dialog with that sort of mind.
But you will continue. because you need to not eat beans and rice this week.
What did you do then for the 3 weeks that you were “running” OTIII on your back porch then? Surely if it was a lot of old nonsense then according to your ideas on it you should have given up after an hour of doing whatever it was that you were doing? And you think I shouldn’t be taken seriously?
Dismantling is all fine, LRH and CoS deserves it all, but there are facts, true data, good observations, and great references in Scn, and false stupid data – this has actually nothing to do with dead Hubbard, and the gay midget. Unless one is in the group of people that just want to burn it all and forget what they have been into for lets say 30 or 40 years. This just does not make sense – and indicates something else is going on in this persons mind.
Henrik, time in has ZERO to do with usefulness or correctness. Stalinism was around for decades and people were into it. Most wanted to forget it. Nothing else was going on in their minds except to distance themselves from that insanity.
NOTHING in scamology (that wasn’t ripped off from others) has EVERY been scientifically shown to be of ANY use.
Your comment here must bear on absolut no ability to look at a subject from an exterior wiepoint, there is no ology or philosophy that does not also contain original ideas, and of cause copyed knowledge – but if you want to have a new Identity and act as a reformed hero the you are welcome.
Henrikbo, PERFECT insane reply from a brain damaged scamologist.
thank you for demonstrating the damage.
I am declaref too – thr last thing I would live under is a society ruled by CoS or LRH policies – but I will not transform in to a hater and a generalist – to legalised myself be a fanatic once again.
Henrikbo, more insane and irrelevant blathering. I never said you would. I simply made an observation of your mental state based on your reasoning ability (lack thereof)
Yes there are about 2.5 % of people for whom it is of no use, although even they can be handled if they showed willing.
Funny but after reading the Technical Volumes, I don’t recall much that was plagiarized, in fact not one jot! Can you provide the usual long list of (thoroughly indirect and wishy-washy, stretched to the limit of credulity) references that prove this?
Fool, I never said it was. But, NOTHING in those volumes has EVERY been scientifically shown to be useful to man.
Work on those ESL classes Fool. 😉
Are ex at all?
Henrik, you are walking a tightrope on this site with your fair comment – with Wnyski the Piltdown Man on one side and Brain the Buddhist squirrel with an AK47 and a non-charged e-meter on the other side. But well done and said regardless.
Foolproof, the philosophy that you defend with all of your might has caused you to be invisible and not use your real name. You cannot reveal who you are.
HOW CAN YOU BE ON THE ROAD TO FREEDOM WHEN YOU ARE AFRAID OF SIGNING YOUR REAL NAME?
We are very Fabian as we are gathering names for the Galactic Police of all those who ran OTIII on their back porch without an e-meter and then profess to know something about the subject of Scientology.
Now you are sounding looney.
Note to all:
Foolproof never responds to a question. His purpose is to cause inharmony. Enterbulation is probably given a number value and made into a stat sheet at weeks end. He probably gets punished for not reeking havoc. Ah Scientology, such a gentle group of piranha.
To remember how we used to be, just enjoy Foolproof and be glad we are out.
Who he is now is how we were: fighting SPs to save the universe.
Give him space and maybe later he will wake from his sleep ?
Haha! Nice try at deflection from your ridiculous antics again Brian. I see from your spelling and disjointed use of English constructs that you probably had a lot of problems in reading the OTIII pack, if you ever did that is? You obviously also fail to see the irony in your comment, in that you spend all of your time on here causing disharmony, reeking havoc by promulgating nonsense and generally behaving like a piranha.
Well … at least I can now eat linguine vongole free from restim …
🙂 Joe. Just made it again last night. So good!
Mike,you are just a bitter defrocked apostate with your natter about the History of Man. You starts howling because we are winning.
Here is THE PROOF!!!!!!
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%2Fm%2F0cqh4k
History of Man is being repackaged as part of OT 9 & 10.
Not surprised. It was used on original OT VIII and trashed by Miscavige.
“Original OTVIII”? You mean the one that Miscavige tried out on you as an April Fool’s joke and you fell for it? That one? Or the original 1969 version?
April fool’s joke in July? No, I am seriously getting ready after 30 years to release some photos from the 1988 Freewinds occult convention. I have been reluctant to release them due to issues of respect, a quality unknown to Hubbard. In reality, Hubbard was hit by a gigantic electronic bolt fired by a Seraphim and then sent back ten paces to his knee. You are aware of magic and how it works? This is no joke.
You are indeed holding true to form George.
How many points Foolproof do you get with each of your posts.
You must get extra points when folks respond. Stats up baby.
Mike do a post on the book All About Radiation . I would love to see your thoughts on that book. LOL
Me too.
If L. Ron Hubbard’s words are flawless, we need to see some response from the criminal enterprise known as the church of scientology.
Thanks for reminding.
All about radiation.
Many of us like to remember the good things about early Scientology.
Maybe because we were the ones creating them.
To revisit the stupidity we bought with say all about radiation is painful but therapeutic.
All About Radiation? I suggest taking 5000mgs of Niacin and then you’ll find out all about it!
I think you are OSA Foolproof. Usually Indies are a bit more tolerant of criticism.
You are an OSA warrior thinking you are saving the universe by trolling Mike’s site.
It’s possible that we are paying attention to you like how we watch shows on dinosaurs.
It’s like, “ wow, look how primitive and savage life used to be in prehistoric times (being a Scientologist).
Your expression Foolproof, of praising the mentallly disturbed imagination of Ron, makes us all grateful to be out.
One day you will understand.
I don’t think one can get any more primitive than trying to run an Advanced Level without an e-meter. One day you still won’t understand.
You are like the horse shoe salesman being pissed at automobiles. Only someone tightly imprisoned in the bubble could still think with Hubbard’s delusional-“infallible”- fakacious scientism.
Who are you a Foolproof. My philosophy gives me the courage to print my real name.
The doctrines and philosophy you promote causes you to cower behind the mask of Foolproof.
Tell me, who is being real and who is the coward?
Please apply your OSA tech by avoiding that which will corner you.
Please feel free to shadow box with your SP tech.
Your reputation here Foolproof is that of a lost soul.
Are you sent here as part of your conditions formula. Are you striking a blow against the enemy?
One word…..pitiful?
Actually there is more chance of you being OSA by posting your outlandish drivel – any under-the-radars would read them and think “Well, I’m better off in the Church than with all those lunatics! Did he really run OTIII without a meter and without even being Clear? Surely people cannot be that stupid?”
And as to disclosing names etc. and as to the name “Brian”, there must be about a million of them in the world, (or did you think no one would notice that?), but feel free to post your full name and address on here – I am sure Mike’s old GO mates will pay you a visit and might even offer you a commission to carry on writing your drivel, if not increase the one you are already getting!
Foolproof. I notice you did not answer my simple question. Perhaps the only person who made a comment directed at you that you have not responded to…
It was a simple question about whether the Piltdown Man incident described in HOM was evidence of good research?
Just a yes or no is good.
I suggest again you Method 9 my comment further above. The answer lies there. Now what about my question to you of whether there is a greater body of knowledge about the human mind and spirit than that Hubbard created, or daren’t you answer that (truthfully) in case of losing face to the gang of sycophants on here? I’m all ears Sigmund!
I think the OSA has a new training course. It’s called: Cause Over Nastiness. EP — able to be nasty all of the time to anyone.
Rule #1
Never answer a question. Always attack back. Never defend……………
Oh wait a minute. What am I talking about. It’s not called Nasty Course; it’s garden variety SP/B1/OSA tech.
It’s Scientology! Hip hip!
So Brian, that theme hasn’t worked so change the direction now to one of general nastiness of OSA and try to juxtapose this to me.
It would be silly for me to state that OSA are not nasty of course, but then I have nothing to do with OSA (hang on I am defending here! Haha!) So and therefore: making this comment about OSA’s nastiness on a comments blog that is mostly full of nastiness is the biggest load of ironical tripe I have read here – apart from your back porch antics with OTIII that is. And I am sure that OSA will read your comment and now start being nice and friendly towards the Church’s enemies. Turn the other cheek and all that eh?
It seems that (some) people making comments here are blind due to their copious amounts of overts – I have answered the question posed to me yet the owner of the blog has still failed to answer my one, and one of his chief sycophants is still making out that I haven’t answered. Ask your question to Mike, Brian. “Never answer a question. Always attack back. Never defend……………”
How come you still refuse to respond to the simple question I asked you about the Piltdown Man incident? You respond to everyone else, why do you ignore me?
Is the Piltdown Man incident described in HOM evidence of good research by Hubbard? Yes or No.
I ANSWERED THE QUESTION ON SATURDAY! LOOK ABOVE! To repeat, yes, I do believe it was the result of good research. I have stated this twice now.
Now how about my question to you above?.
Oh sorry. I missed it. That pretty much says everything. In your mind as long as Hubbard said it, it’s good. That’s totally your right. And I understand you. I used to “think” like that too. I am appreciate the fact you are willing to admit it, no matter how foolish it makes you look. At least you are not a hypocrite. Though the same can’t be said for Mr. Hubbard.
Foolish? Ha! Someone who invents his own “EP” for Solo NOTs and another someone who runs OTIII on his back porch without a meter or another someone who thinks that one will spontaneously combust if the (made up false) OTVIII processes are run wrongly! And I’m foolish?
Now what about my question to you of whether there is a greater body of knowledge about the human mind and spirit than that Hubbard created, or daren’t you answer that (truthfully) in case of losing face to the gang of sycophants on here? As I said, I’m all ears Sigmund!
You need to qualify your question Foolproof.
I would certainly agree that Hubbard’s body of “knowledge” is extensive, perhaps greater than any other single individual — though Will Durant is pretty formidable. But, how much of it has value? How much of it is true (despite his assertions that it was all “thoroughly researched” which we know to be untrue).
I know from your earlier answer that you believe every utterance of Hubbard is truth.
knowledge: The fact of knowing a thing, state, etc., or (in general sense) a person; acquaintance; familiarity gained by experience. OED
By definition it is clear that Hubtard’s “body of knowledge” is paltry. The VOLUME of CLAIMED & invented “knowledge” is enormous.
Yes we can ignore Wnyski’s usual drivel and ranting, but you skipped very adroitly over answering my question directly and obfuscated a nice reply, but the reply has no substance other than your opinion and hte nonsense you have gleaned fro others on here, ignoring the hundreds of thousands of people who have received auditing over the years. Mike I’ll let you off – you don’t have to answer this directly or beat around the bush – we all know what the real answer should be, don’t we?
Yes Fool. niacin causes capillary dilation. Which of course has nothing to do with radiation. Only those with no real education would blather on so.
Oh! Really? How is it then that that mostly those areas of the skin that are affected by sunlight such as arms, neck face etc. glow like a beacon and the other areas, like your brain (particularly), don’t? Surely with all your “scientific research” you could make a simple observation like that? Try it on the rats for the next 30 years, I’m sure you’ll change your mind one day! Really, only those with no education and lacking observation skills would blather on so! And what is released with the capillary dilation – your common sense?
Because D!PSH!T, as I explained to you a few months ago on this blog and you forgot because of your cult induced brain damage, when one gets a sunburn the capillaries burst and new ones grow and the body grows MORE than there were BEFORE the burn. THUS, when you take niacin later, those areas with PRIOR damage from the sun get MORE red than areas not as damaged from the sun.
In the 1970s when I was doing auditor training I don’t recall being required to read that book or listen to any of the wacky stuff in the early lectures. Maybe that’s why I considered scn to be a form of psychology rather than a wacky belief system.
Did yo so the OT levels?
“Did yo so the OT levels?”
Hey Brian! What does this mean?
In my opinion, it requires a big ass belief system. And there are so many other areas where faith and belief are necessary.
I agree there are “forms of psychology” ala Freud. But the rest does not remind me of a “form of psychology.”
Of course it doesn’t help if you run OTIII without a meter on your back porch Brian eh? I mean only a fool would do something so daft eh?
He reaps what he so’s. But so what?
Richard you never even did up to Class 2 auditor training. If you had stayed for your full basic auditor training you would have hit the crazy stuff.
I believe later in life LRH was very careful not to make up stories (which he did all the time) that could be disproved (like his gold mine in his backyard in Maryland in 1933 See link below.). He made only a few mistakes in addition to the Piltdown Man where science caught up with him. I think another is the age of the earth. After carbon dating proved earth was actually only about 4 billion years, he said “they don’t know how solid matter really is” …. or something like that. Another was the “Mission into Time” in the late 60’s in Greece, which is when he really proved to himself that his recollection of his own past lives was not the same as reality. I believe this “mission into time” was the most serious research LRH ever did into proving past lives, at least that I know of… Anyway, I would call this Greece adventure am actual scientific research which resulted in: 1) nothing was discovered to prove anything and 2) LRH decided never to do research like that again.
Scientology: The science of the mind where reality has no place!
https://whyweprotest.net/threads/lrh-discovers-gold-in-his-own-back-yard-1933.101691/
LRH was such a nitwit he didn’t even achieve death before he was neck deep in his own bullshit. What a failure.
Please explain your remark about the age of the Earth and where LRH mentioned this directly, instead of trying to juxtapose your think and probable misunderstanding (as usual) on his remark.
Foolproof! Welcome back! You’ve been missed. Possibly not for all of the reasons you’d prefer, but you’ve been missed!
Thank you Aqua. I still think you should shrug off the mantle of more extreme disgruntlement that you donned several months back (caused no doubt by continued association with Wynski-types and your seeming acquiescence to their rantings) and go and find an auditor and get some auditing. You became more vehement as you admitted yourself. Shame (imo) really as your comments before this “epiphany” were at least balanced and somewhat fair.
LMBO! Molotov complaining that facts being relayed about his master are not “fair” & “balanced”.
Ha! The most unfair commenter on this site states such! You couldn’t make it up. Well, Wynski does. And the missed irony!
You cannot carbon date that long back – so any attempt to determine the age of the earth is fake.
Henrikbo, like your cult master Hubtard, you lack even a basic PRIMARY school education.
Carbon dating isn’t used to determine the age of planets & stars. The AGE of our star is used. Which CAN be determined. And from there the approximate age of our planet.
Yeah, well… don’t let the facts get in the way of a good (con, opps…$, opps) story.
History of Man. What a mongrel of a book to read, and I read it at least twice! (DOH!)
One thing you can say about all of us who bought in hook, line and sinker is our imaginations were aligned with his! Geez! I get embarrassed every time I think of it, but thankfully I’ve forgiven myself. ☺️
Yep. Agreed Joan. Evidently my past involved clams having a hinge problem that wanted to open and a hinge that wanted to close (snap-snap-snap). To this day I have never had a restimulation that caused jaw pain from seeing a clam. Go figure..
Don’t be embarrassed, Joan. There are millions of people walking this earth today with plenty of intelligence and common sense as regards all aspects of their lives except they yet believe the most outrageous and unproven religious woo.
No proof, they just accept it without any inspection. Because its in the Bible, or the Koran, or the Old Testament, or wherever someone back in the day wrote it down.
Do you know anyone who’s ever seen a talking snake?
Neither do I. But many millions of people will tell you that it had to be the truth. what happened there, back in the Garden of Eden. They KNOW this…because its in the Bible.
So you believed Hubbard’s History of Man Woo for a while. So what? At least you wised up.
(… never thought I would say it, but…)
THIS!
There is so much we do not know, so much we can only have conjecture about, so much that “science” has yet to discover…and correct…that t\he fact that folks believe in miracles, talking snakes or anything else hardly surprises me. All that was “created” in order for people thousands of years ago to get some kind of understanding of their universe. And if that’s what someone today believes and it helps them, who are we to deny or put them down? Look at how many of us on this list fell for scio? And believed in it totally?
FYI, science is now moving toward a more spiritual view…slowly. Quantum information has proven that something can be at two different places – widely apart – at the same time. dd And anything that affects either one of the points INSTANTLY affects the other. No comm lag. How unbelievable is that?
Peter, don’t get me wrong: I’m no atheist! Call it God, the Supreme Being, the Tao, call it The Universal Mind, call it peanut butter and jelly or name it anything or anyone you like, but I know there’s SOMETHING, that ISN’T a “thing” that is every”thing” and no”thing” that exists and has always existed and will always exist outside of the physical universe!
All the great thinkers and teachers have written that
You look around and life and everything in it is a miracle.Miracles occurring in plain view all the time. What designed this? What thought all this up?
I don’t want to get into a rant so take my word for it that in my own way I’m a deeply “religious” person.
And boy oh boy, do I have reality on the power of thought! Everything comes from thought. All of the great teachers and prophets have said this also, in different ways, but its the same concept and I totally subscribe to it. There isn’t anything that exists in the physical universe that did not start with a thought!
I just believe that each of us are PART of this thought, this creation, and that each of us, whether aware or unaware, is constantly creating – something.
And, you used your Super Powers to walk away! Feels pretty good, doesn’t it? Freedom never felt this good! So glad you’re out.
well said, Hubbard tapped into the sublime, didn’t happen to everybody, but enough of us and especially artists and musicians and business people who dream for a better life for all.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sumlimr+literature&oq=sumlimr+literature&aqs=chrome..69i57.10364j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8.
Scientology is a house of cards on a foundation of lies. Piltdown man… trillions of years of existence… all bullshit.
Scientology IS all about make believe. There are no Super Powers. It’s one giant fraud.
Noah’s Ark, the animals & a big flood. One could say whatever floats your boat… (but I won’t). Power over people and their money is the operating basis of many, many religions. Religious wars, now that’s really wacky, except for those that profit from war.
Scientology is a modern slant on a very old game.
I won’t disagree with you there, but of all modern “religions”, scientology is spectacularly evil.
What are you worried about then?
Interesting that this post should appear today. I am re-reading “Barefaced Messiah” because I sent a copy to a friend and I want to be able to discuss it with her as she reads it. I am on the chapter that discussed History of Man.
Russell Williams says:
“In July, the Scientific Press of Phoenix (another Hubbard enterprise) published a book originally titled What To Audit and later re-named The History of Man. Introduced as a ‘cold-blooded and factual account of your last sixty trillion years’, Hubbard intended the book to establish the foundations of Scientology and he had no desire to be unduly modest about its potential. With the knowledge gained by Scientology, he wrote in the third paragraph, ‘the blind again see, the lame walk, the ill recover, the insane become sane and the sane become saner.’
Even judged by the standards of his science fiction, The History of Man was one of Hubbard’s most bizarre works and possibly the most absurd book ever written, although it was treated with great reverence by his followers. An amalgam of mysticism, psychotherapy and pure science fiction, the content invited the derision which was inevitably forthcoming. ‘To say it is an astonishing document does not adequately convey the peculiar qualities or contents of The History of Man…’ one government report noted. ‘For compressed nonsense and fantasy it must surpass anything theretofore written.’”
…
“The History of Man drifted into pure science fiction when Hubbard came to the point of explaining how thetans moved from body to body. Thetans abandoned bodies earlier than GEs, it appeared. While the GE stayed around to see the body through to death, thetans were obliged to report to a between-lives ‘implant station’ where they were implanted with a variety of control phases while waiting to pick up another body, sometimes in competition with other disembodied thetans. Hubbard revealed that most implant stations were on Mars, although women occasionally had to report elsewhere in the solar system and there was a ‘Martian implant station somewhere in the Pyrenees’.”
Excerpt From
Bare-Faced Messiah
Russell Miller
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/bare-faced-messiah/id826815342?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
Take a closer look at the Annunaki Genesis written on sumarian stone tablet’s and translatet by Oxford scholars – then rethink if LRH just had a great fantasy.
The sane become saner. What is that? If you’re sane, how do you become more sane. It’s not the same as saying the rich become richer, since we all know that the categorization of wealth is quantitative, and the number could always go up. But sanity? If a person is sane, what exactly is changed in order for them to be considered saner? I think that’s what killed of Piltdown Man — too sane.
I think “sane” can be quantified, just as “insane”, “honest” , dishonest, “good” “bad” and “able” and ” disabled” can be quantified. Some people are sane when it comes to their finances and not so sane when it comes to choosing a spouse. Or vice versa; some people are great with relationships and really bad with money. This is not a defense per se of L Ron Hubbard. I just don’t think these operating states are zero sum.
I don’t know how you quantify “sane”. Please explain. Perhaps “honest” and “dishonest” could be quantified if you peg it to the number of lies told. “Good” and “bad,” I don’t see it. “Able” and “disabled,” maybe, if you count the number of limbs paralyzed, for instance. Quantifiable means you can put a number to it, literally. Maybe even “insanity” can conceivably be quantified, if you count how many conditions in the DSM are diagnosed (and I know that psychiatrists don’t). But “sane?” Nope. Sane is the absence of insanity. It’s definitionally a null set. You can’t improve on it.
Ok, I’ll bite. I’d say it would depend on HOW you want it quantified. A LEGAL definition for being sane? I’m not a legal person but I believe there are guidelines for proving sanity and insanity legally. But I don’t think you mean that kind of quantifying. Now, if, as you say, INsanity can be quantified, why not sanity? If INsanity is not zero sum, how then, can sanity be zero sum, other than in the legal sense? Haven’t you met people you’d consider MORE sane than others, meaning, their lapses into irrationality are fewer than other people’s lapses into irrationality. Are you ALWAYS, purely rational in your thinking? I know I’m not. If someone gets mad at Person A, and then, instead of confronting Person A about the issue, goes and starts a fight with his spouse, or comes home and kicks the dog, is that SANE behavior? Yet, apparently plenty of legally sane people handle anger this way sometimes – taking it out on others. But someone who does NOT do this would be MORE sane (all else being equal) -someone who handled anger issues corrrectly would be MORE sane than someone who didn’t. Just my 2. Ok if we disagree.
The reason “sanity/insanity” can’t be accurately quantified is because sane/insane are catchall phrases with no actual medical meaning. The definition of one is the opposite of the other. You can be schizoid, cycloid, etc. These are specific diagnoses.
Legal sanity/insanity is a different matter. It has to do with whether or not you were aware of/understood your actions during the commission of a crime or whether or not you are competent to testify on your own behalf or are fit to stand trial because you are suffering from of permanent or temporary “mental illness.”
They hand out little pins that say, ‘I’m saner than you are.’
“…I’m saner than you are, nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah…”
I tried to put a value on my sanity once… Sanity I found out is not a commodity & no one was interested in it and then I was laughed out of town. That town was Scioland.
Is Scioland like an evil Disneyland?
Yep.
Well, they are!
Sanity, insanity? How about this then from the Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary. You can also find the definition of Sanity in the same book. Plenty of examples in the comments here for some “mass”on the definitions:
INSANITY, 1. the overt or covert but always complex and
continuous determination to harm or destroy. (HCOB 28 Nov 70)
2. insanity is most often the suppressed agony of actual physical
illness and injury. (HCOB 2 Apr 69) 3. the obsessive adaptation
of a solution to the exclusion of all other solutions in the absence
of a problem. (SH Spec 27X, 6107C04) 4. the inability to
associate or differentiate properly. (Sen 8-8008, p. 44) 5. insanity
is an emotion which is brought about by the compulsion to reach
and the inhibition not to reach or the compulsion not to reach
and the inhibition to reach. (2ACC-18A, 5312CM08) 6. the best
definition of which I know would be: the person widely believes
that the symbols are the things. (PDC 20) 7. insanity is an
individual assisting things which inhibit survival and destroying
things which assist survival. (5109CM24A) 8. if an individual is
incapable of adjusting himself to his environment so as to get
along with or obey or command his fellows, or, more importantly,
if he is incapable of adjusting his environment, then he
can be considered to be “insane.” But it is a relative term.
(DMSMH, p. 380) 9. the point between where a person who is
sane goes thereafter insane is very precise. It’s the exact point
at which he begins to stop something. At that moment he is
insane. At first he is insane on that one subject; then he can get
another idBe me and become insane on another subject, thus
getting cumulative insanity. But there is no doubt of his insanity
on that one subject, something that he is trying to stop.
(6711C18SO) 10. insanity itself is simply must reach-can’t
reach, must withdraw-can’t withdraw. (SH Spec 98, 6201C10)
Old L. Ron Hubbard
Went to the cupboard
To give li’l Davy a bone
When Davy got there
The cupboard was bare
As the History of Man gathered mold
Whoa! Outstanding post! Bravo! Well done, MjM. Very cleaver!
” When Davy got there
The cupboard was bare”
So ole El Con gave Davey a bone of his own.
?
I first encountered the book in the reference library at Celebrity Center in 1976, when CC was on La Brea Ave in West Hollywood. My take at the time:
“I had no idea what to make of all this. On one hand it was incomprehensible; yet on the other, it staggered my imagination. It was like the thrill you get riding a roller-coaster or watching a scary movie. I decided that I’d go along for the ride.”
Have just downloaded your book Chris. Had a quick look through the example pages on Amazon and am looking forward to getting into it tomorrow.
Thanks for writing it.
Off topic but aren’t there tar pits in that area? Seriously.
On Wilshire and La Brea you’ll find the LA County Museum of Art, a favorite hangout of mine. And yes, the tar pits are there as well.
I remember when I first encountered ‘A History of Man’. I was thoroughly confused and thought that it was stuff beyond my ability to grasp. I thought that was the result of my going past a misunderstood word. If I recall correctly the book was subtitled ‘What to Audit’. I may be wrong on that but nonetheless I would be interested to hear from any ex here about their experience encountering these incidents in their auditing. You know, Clam, Weeper, Coffee Grinder, Piltdown, Sloth, etc. etc. I for one was never able to find an engram in this lifetime to run let alone the outlandish descriptions of these various incidents supposedly common to everyone. If no one can come up with any experience encountering this stuff, how about a simple walk down memory lane and recount your last life. There are at least 2 engrams involved there, birth and death. Even a mere ‘clear’ should be able to recall their own previous name, location(s), family names, jobs, schools, cause of death, etc. for an easy cross check.
When sipping (or guzzling) Kool-Aid, we weren’t allowed to talk about our ‘case’ so everyone seemed to blindly accept this crock-o-shit as fact. Now we are out and have gained the ability to communicate freely with anyone on any subject, let ‘er rip. I would be especially interested to hear what you pre-declared ‘clears’ and ‘OTs’ encountered in auditing and what your take is on that now. Indies, you speak up too unless you haven’t gained the ability to freely communicate yet. If we are lucky, maybe FOOLproof’s handlers will let him out today to comment on this seminal text and clear our ‘MUs’ for us.
I have completed ‘grade IV’ so I have the ability to be wrong and not get all butt hurt. I know some of you out there have had gains from auditing. I have no problem with that. For me though, those gains are comparable to someone’s financial gains working with Bernie Madolf, they are just make believe, but that’s just me. I know that some will accuse me of bringing out my tired old rant about Hubbard’s lack of research, but there was no research behind dianetics and scientology, it is just a fact.No research = no claimed results. The only people that did get results got those results on a fluke. No 100% workable 100% of the time on 100% of the population. I’m ready, willing and able to be wrong so if someone else has plausible refutation, I’m all ears.
Ms. B,
I admire how you’re asking for honest experiences and have no vested interest in “being right”
Accordingly, I’ll share that early on I had some Dianetic auditing and it helped me. I can’t give too much detall without blowing my cover but what I saw and “blew” in Dianetic auditing was something that would happen t me each year around Christmas time, beginning in my teens. In brief, I HATED it, hated the Christmas holidays and had for some years been making everyone else miserable because I dreaded Christmas. LSS in Dianetic auditing I was able to spot what it was that had become LINKED to Christmas that was causing this dislike and dread. From that point on, and ever since, I’ve enjoyed Christmas, as I used to when I was a child. Can’t give more detail than that so if it sounds airy fairy and unbelievable I understand. The Dianetic auditing enabled me to separate the painful incident (not an engram) that had occurred that had become totally linked with Christmas but that had had nothing to do with Christmas at all. This was a nice win and its been permanent.
Good for you Aqua. I’m glad that you had some real and lasting results from your auditing. I know others who I think found dianetics helpful. Up to a certain point at least. Even though I believe that they got some positive gain from their experience they certainly showed no evidence of being ‘clear’ as they attested to. They also went on to do the OT levels and showed no signs of being ‘OT’ either even though they might have had some ‘wins’ along the way.
I’m going to speculate that your experience is the exception to the rule. If dianetics or scientology were even a tiny fraction as effective and workable as claimed, the cult’s main problem would not be SPs but the hoards of unwashed masses attempting to break their doors down demanding services. I don’t see that happening with scientology or any other cult out there.
Hi Ms. B – its possible that my experience was the exception. I don’t know. I never got far up the Bridge. I’m not Clear. Never had the time, or, didn’t have the money, to go to Flag! And I was never staff or SO, always public (by some miracle). Also, I didn’t have any loved ones or family in there. I never brought anyone in. I just was never able to do that although I took Dissem courses and they gave me all kinds of free drilling on how to “sell Scientology to my friends”…never could. Anyway, I think all of the above contributed to my not having traumatic experiences. I think (my opinion only) the lower bridge is helpful. Oh, ALSO, whatever auditing I got was BEFORE the first GAT in the mid 90s. And last but not least, I can’t imagine – I actually shudder at the thought of being audited with the 3 swing FN rule. OMFG, what an amazing, utterly evil way to screw someone up! Anyone here who was audited using the 3 swing FN – I am so sorry! Totally right that you would absolutely loathe Scientology and Scientology auditing after being subjected to that. Pure evil. And I’m not being funny. I could not be more serious. Unthinkable, pure evil.
It is a bit late to be jumping in here, Aqua, but there is no doubt that you and others can get benefits from abreaction therapy as practiced in Scientology. It works best when it is applied by someone who actually wants to help, is not entrenched in the authoritative command structure, and has not had all the spontaneity drilled out of them by harsh robotic training.
The main reason abreaction therapy was largely abandoned was that it tended to create a dependency on the practitioner. Considered to be a big plus by Hubbard.
The other reasons are that it tends to create the idea that someone can solve all their problems by one sudden huge realization, like the end of the film “The Three Faces of Eve”. In this film, a women with multiple personalities discovers her true self in therapy, and it looks like the therapy has completely solved her situation. In real life, the woman that the film was based on went on to have more problems and wasn’t completely “solved”. This quest for an easy solution is a false one.
The other danger is that you may be solving a problem or you may be just desensitizing the person to the problem. I used to be proud that I could take a grieving person in session and end with the person all smiles and joking about it. You can do that with Scientology. But has the person really gone through the natural grieving process and reconciled to the reality of the situation or have they just shoved the whole thing deeper? Are they really happy now, with their mother gone and the funeral the next day, or are they just dissociated from it all? In retrospect it seems like a really dangerous trick.
As regards the “History of Man”, it has been shown that imagined situations and guided imagery work as well as real life situations in therapy. Just getting someone to talk about it and really listening is the main point. So you could get some benefit from “recalling” things that never happened and never could.
False memory is quite common when people are asked to recall things they don’t really remember. Especially when the “therapist” is insistent and digs for every possible hint. They will make it up, but the trick is it seems just like a real memory. In some sense it really is, there is no way to clinically tell the difference.
So much for Hubbard’s “proof”. He made it all up or got others to make it up and went over it enough times that it got installed as a false memory. You can “prove” anything that way.
Bruce wrote “…but there is no doubt that you and others can get benefits from abreaction therapy as practiced in Scientology. ”
But then pointed out several ways the ‘therapy’ is either :
A. not truly practiced in Scientology, except (perhaps) in rare cases of a therapeutic-minded auditor, and
B. so full of negative aspects that a sensible person would avoid it, if they knew of the problems in advance.
Abreaction went the way of the dodo for good reasons, but that didn’t stop Hubbard from stealing a little from it.
Even mentioning it as a ‘benefit’ in Scientology fairly reeks of a remaining robotic belief in Hubbard, not something I would want anyone to suffer. To pick and choose a ‘benefit’ here or there from Hubbard (or Miscavige) is to ignore the entire scam and its continuing harm.
The worst tyrant in history (fill in your favorite) may have loved his dogs, but it was not a redeeming factor compared to all the suffering he caused.
test
Ammo, I’ve been thinking about your reply and of course you are not wrong. It is not a matter of a practice that has good and bad parts, the whole thing is bad.
But as many have pointed out, like Henrik Bo at the top of the thread, some have had what they consider to be “good experiences” with it. And they cling to those “wins” or “successes” with a tenacity that rivals a pit bull.
The “wins” are the glue that sticks the follower to the cause. Like the first few experiences with opioids or other drugs, the first times are often the best. Some go on using for years, changing doses or trying other drugs, to try to recreate that first blinding glorious high.
Other religions and cults also use this built-in tendency of humans to seek epiphanies and use confirmation bias to fool themselves into following a false path.
I am just trying to explain why the early low level experiences in Scientology were often so positive. Not because the “tech works”. Because they use techniques like abreaction therapy from other practices that create these epiphanies.
The quest for the ultimate epiphany that creates a superhuman is a false one. There is no evidence that something like a “bridge” or succession of ever more specific epiphanies really exists. All you can really say is they make you feel good and you sometimes believe you have solved something after one of them.
Almost everything Hubbard claimed about his techniques turns out to be lies. By using false memory he got his followers to believe that he had secret knowledge gleaned from past civilizations. So they believed even the most egregious and damaging lies.
Even today, after all we know about the true history of Hubbard, his war record, his dabbling in the occult with Jack Parsons, his borrowings from others for his “tech”, folks still cling to their “wins”. Hope springs eternal in the human breast. By explaining the false hope and the emotional glue that sticks it to the true believer I hope to help others understand and avoid it.
Bruce and Ammo, thanks so much for responding to me and sharing your thoughts. I’m not familiar with abreaction therapy and will have to google it. When I first got in there were staff who were very caring and understanding and who listened to me. That was what opened me up to allowing them to do Dianetic auditing on me. It was their caring attitude, their kindness and patience that penetrated my (then very considerable) defenses. That’s how the staff in my little org were, back then. They changed though. The kindness and caring crystalized into a facade and they became robots. Or, maybe they were robots all along and I fell for the facade. I don’t know. It worked and it didn’t cost much, back then. Today, it would never work because of the horrendous PR they have. Today, if I were “raw meat” in need of the same kind of help I would not let any of them near me because of the horrible PR out there about them.
PS: I think I misunderstood your request, Ms. B. I never audited anything from HOM. My auditing, both Dianetic and later in the HGC, addressed only “this lifetime” incidents. Sorry for that long post that had nothing to do with your question!
Aquamarine, I certainly respect the win you got from auditing. But it does seem to my never-in mind that you could have gotten this insight from other forms of therapy. Albert Ellis’ Rational Therapy comes to mind. Whenever people on this site sincerely note that they’ve gotten “wins” from scientology, I always wonder how they might have gotten them from other paths and modalities without experiencing all the heartache and financial ruin that scientology also causes.
Thanks for your acknowledgement bixtram and I have no disagreement that I very possibly could have gotten this same realization via other forms of therapy.Thing is, I didn’t do any other forms of therapy because back in those days, psychological counselling was very expensive and I couldn’t afford it. Also understood on your point about the heartache and ruin that Scientology causes. I can only share my experience. I didn’t get that far “up the Bridge”. I’m not Clear. Also, my goals back then were just to feel less grief all the time, about things that had happened “this lifetime”. I had no exalted goals to have super powers. I still don’t. Not that this would be wrong or bad to have such goals but I’ve never had them. I like having a body. I’m fine on planet earth. Its not a prison, its a gorgeous wondrous place, IMO! Life as a human is fine with me. I just wanted to be a happy human again!
I think that what is called the “lower Bridge”, meaning the beginning steps of Dianetics and Scientology are what are the most beneficial, the most impactful, and ironically these beginning steps (courses, auditing actions) are also the cheapest – by far the cheapest. They were quite cheap back in the day, Not sure if they still are today, though. Probably not.
Thanks for you explaination, Aquamarine. I apologize if a sounded a bit judgmental. My own journey, getting away from drugs and alcohol years ago, involved group therapy (which I didn’t have to pay for), working a 12-step program, and a few other approaches. In retrospect, getting clean and sober was a huge “win,” but it took time (and a lot of hard emotional and mental “work.”) and there was no one minute in time that I can point to and say it was a “win.”
It’s interesting (and sad) that scientology doesn’t want its believers to discuss their “cases” with anyone, because every other therapist, sponsor and good friend encouraged me to talk my “case” over with other people and in the long run, that’s what saved my butt.
I’ve enjoyed reading your thoughtful posts here. My heart goes out to you and everyone else who ever had scientology inflicted on them. I wish you all the best.
Thank you, bix! I’m so glad to hear that you decided to kick drugs and alcohol and did so. That – that is HUGE. That you did that – and the key word here is “you” – YOU did it – that you pulled that off successfully classifies as far more than just a “win”. Every day, possibly every hour or even Minute that you abstained in this process were “wins” although they probably didn’t feel good – but that you pushed thru, despite the physical and emotional pain – that you withstood the cravings and came out all right – that is a very big deal, make no mistake!
When I gave up caffeine I was in PAIN. I thought, “If I’m in this kind of pain giving up caffeine, how the hell do people give up heroin or cocaine? The craving for booze?”
No small thing, bix. 🙂
Bring that trumpet of yours to our End Of Times Cult Dissolution Beach Party, you hear? 🙂
Will do.
Ms. B. Haven,
Five of us at the LA Org in 1966/7 did the DAC and co-audited with gusto. None of us found the items in History of Man. We all had science degrees and laughed that Hubbard got taken by the Pitdown hoax, and discussed freely what, if any, real research was done by Hubbard. We had fun at any rate.
Blubbard was first and foremost a science fiction writer. Why should anyone think whatever else he wrote wasn’t also a complete fabrication? I mean really folks!
Great response! I’m anxious to see if anyone replies with a Clam or Weeper story. I’m betting NOT. lol
Hubbard is quoted above as saying: “This work is honest research, done with considerable care. And it will bear up under survey by any competent auditor or investigator…”
CALLING ALL COMPETENT AUDITORS!!!! FOOLproof, can you come out and play today?
***crickets***
Here’s another one that cannot understand: “It is so named not because it is accurately the real Piltdown Man but because it has some similarity.” Of course such requires thinking a bit laterally.
But indeed, this was a misprint which COB has now corrected and what he actually meant was: “It is so named not because it is accurately the real Wynski Man (who shared a cave with Ms. B Haven and regularly beat her for no preparing the dinosaur stew properly as she couldn’t read the prehistoric cookbook) but because it has some similarity.”
That’s it? All you have to say about History of Man?
You didn’t comment on the claims of the amazing research and this being a cold-blooded factual account? Do you agree with this?
Well, for cold-bloodedness, I suggest you try running the Halver Implant or something else mentioned in the book, and see what happens! Like Brian you can run it without a meter as well! (Good luck!)
As to you and your fellow critics belittling his research by you and them applying the so-called standards of the scientific community’s lip-service “research” of throwing billions of dollars of time and effort to produce absolutely nothing worthwhile in the field of mental health or the spirit, then yes, Hubbard didn’t do that. But then he, bit by bit unraveled the problems of the human mind and spirit and which are contained in his books and HCOBs and tapes. Or is there any other body of knowledge that can match this? I’m all ears!
Of course the gang of critics here are pulling the wool over people’s eyes by suggesting that because he didn’t wear a white coat and walk around with a stethoscope and work in a well-funded laboratory with lots of rats and all that, that “his work cannot be valid”!
He OBSERVED what worked on cases over the years and refined the technology that he invented. This is something that of course the “scientific community” cannot do of course – observe.
Anyway, as I say I am all ears to find out what other body of knowledge matches his!
Wonderful. Full-blown Foolproof comment!
Here is a simple question, and it could have a simple answer if you choose to not obfuscate or Q & A (mans deadliest disease….)
Do you believe the Piltdown Man incident listed in HOM is a result of good research?
That’s easy-peasy. Just yes or no will do.
Well as usual you have ignored my question and again are substituting your actually jocular standard of “good research” i.e. white coats, rats and all that to try and make out that because Hubbard discovered incidents without wearing a white coat and surrounded by rats that his research is effete. “Good”? Yep.
Now how about answering my question? I’m all ears, Sigmund!
Thanks Fool. New people to this blog need to know what a brain on Scientology sounds like. You never disappoint as an object lesson.
Pleasure No-Wynski! Tell me, do you still beat your wife (Ms. B Haven) for not cooking the dinosaur stew correctly? Or do the bones of your discontent still get stuck in your craw? Method 9 is far more therapeutic.
Just remember, N.Graham, when you’re eating Clams, you’re eating your friends & family.
I’m there with you, N Graham. I also want to know if anyone ran a coital incident or a sperm incident? In all the NED auditing I received and delivered to others, never once did I or anyone I audited run a coital incident or a sperm sequence incident. Did anyone here run any of that?
For every question that “History of Man” answered it raised 4 more. Wild, far out stuff. And the jacket cover always turned me off. That creep in a furry suit gnawing on a bloody bone – disgusting.
I think Hubbard had a very bad dream and turned into the cover. Either that or he was stoned.
🙂 OSD.
Which is not a bad thing…
Did you mean clam on the coast? Just checking…
‘Clams on the Coast.’ Retro band
Later changed to chowder on the coast ‘cause clams don’t last!
I’ve never understood how Scientologists can buy the “sixty trillion years” garbage. If Hubbard really had memories from more than 14 billion years ago, they should be before the Big Bang, but he never mentions previous universes. He talks about galactic governments, yet none of our current galaxies existed before the Big Bang. So no Scientologists know basic high school Physics?
Does a Scientologist recognize the reality of reality?
Oh, Hell no! Their reality is what they’re told.
Cat, Hubtard talks about other prior universes in several tapes.
Cat, Hubtard talks about other prior universes in several tapes.
I didn’t know that. Did he trace his history of our universe prior to the Big Bang, or did he mean other dimensions, or was he referring to the proliferation of bubble universes postulated with the idea of infinite inflation? I don’t pretend to know all of Hubbard; but in some stories I’ve seen, Hubbard seemed to be under the impression that galactic organizations could exist from trillions of years ago (they couldn’t). I’m curious if there’s an account that shows him being aware that our known universe began 13.8 billion years ago, and if so, how he accounted for the history before that. Seems to me it would bear mentioning in an account of the last 60 trillion years.
No he didn’t. The “Big Bang” is not a qualified scientific theory as many parts remain untestable. There is currently not a standing theory on the beginning of the universe.
The “Big Bang” is not a qualified scientific theory as many parts remain untestable. There is currently not a standing theory on the beginning of the universe.
I used “Big Bang” as a placeholder for what is known scientifically — that the entire known universe was extremely hot and condensed around 13.8 billion years ago, before any of the stars of this universe existed. Whether before that was a “bang” or a “bounce” or something not yet conceived, it was not the continuous operation of humanoid governments among currently existing galaxies. Hubbard still did not have any special knowledge nullifying all the cosmology that is known, so my original incredulity at people buying the 60 trillion years garbage still stands.
Sounds like Hubbard went to town invalidating everybody else’s Woo, then substituted his own. Which is pretty much what all organized religions have done throughout the ages, so what else is new?
They’re all fairly predictable in this way. “This is THE way. There is NO other way. Follow THIS or the penalties will be severe!”
Ho hum.
Exactly Aqua. And they all are probably wrong. And probably undiscoverable by us.
Actually Cat, we DON’T know that for sure. It is supposition that is untestable. Evidence points to that direction but known physical laws state that it is not possible.
We don’t even know the size of the universe. For all we know what we can see so far is a small fragment of a much larger place and it was a local phenomenon.
Exactly. I’m sure scientologists and Hubbard would have an answer for this, as usual.
He mentions previous and other universes many, many times. Why do you say he never did? In fact he commented on his self called ‘scientifically tested,’ there are an infinity of universes. The one we occupy according to Hubbard is the one (MEST) we all agree upon, or some such nonsense.
Mike, my comments aren’t showing up immediately after posting and the page refreshing. Is this now a new setting (of yours) or has OSA hacked your site again?
I have heard some defend this because Hubbard does not claim that this creature is exactly Piltdown Man but just something rather like it.
However:
At the time that the Piltdown Man hoax came into being it was theorized that Man had evolved a human body first while retaining an ape’s face and that the human face had evolved later. The British scientists involved in the hoax put it together in the belief that real evidence for this kind of creature would soon emerge.
Instead of this, early kinds of man like Home Erectus were discovered which had a body that is not yet human but the face is already half way between ape and human. It was discoveries like this that prompted scientists to take a much closer look at Piltdown Man, since it was out-of-kilter with everything else that had come to light.
It appears that nothing looking remotely like Piltdown Man has ever existed.
“It appears that nothing looking remotely like Piltdown Man has ever existed”
Oh, I dunno about that. Hubbard came remarkably close!! Perhaps he was attempting a biography?
One of the many things that took my breath away (unfortinately I kept my mouth shut) in my last five years in was when I saw my son reading this book while he was getting Dianetic auditing. It was required of him. It was suppose to help him find incidents. Of course, there’s an element of love bombing if you’re a pc that can go wholetrack (past lives) and a sign of trouble as a case if you can’t.
Axiom #2: Whenever Hubtard spoke or wrote, if it WASN’T a lie, it was something he pilfered from another.
There once was a huckster named Ron
Who fashioned a soul-sucking con
The greatest deceiver
He made true believers
Until his whole racket went wrong
There once was a huckster named Ron
Who fashioned a soul-sucking con
The greatest deceiver
He made true believers
Until his whole racket went wrong
Love it! Limericks for L. Ron!
His claims for audits Dianetic
overloaded their minds analytic.
Never once was a clear,
nor an OT, I fear
his Admissions were really prophetic.
MjM, you should go on the road!
…aaaand even before “The Basics” nonsense, this book was required reading on the Solo Course for lower OT levels and then again on the re-do of the Solo Course for OT VI and VII.
“important stuff”
sniff.
I always secretly loathed the book, but also knew this was my own failing and someday I’d get my mind right on it. No need to mention it. I just needed to keep going OT.
(I LOVED ripping the cover off this one and burning it in the bonfire)
” The PILTDOWN contains freakish acts of strange “logic,” of demonstrating dangerous on one’s fellows, of eating one’s wife and other somewhat illogical activities.”
We may want to offer up dear Dave as an excellent example of the first positive sighting of the ‘piltdown thingy’, certainly not a man but rather a stunted version of a life form that shows signs of ” other somewhat illogical activities.”
Yo Dave,
What are you really?
You crack me up! This is great?
However, the Piltdown Man would be offended by your comment, Coop.
Would he bite their heads off?
Newcomer – thanks for my first chuckle of the day, you too funny.
I knew the piltdown was classified as a hoax, but by then I was in so deep I thought ‘ they’ we lying about it.
SMH
I had a few piltdown friends who all committed suicide. They just never seemed to fit in. Sad.
Maybe they just wanted to go to Target 2.
Coop, I’m always one to stand up for the underdog. I think it is shameful that you compare Piltdown Man to Mr. Miscavige when you know damn good and well the Piltdown Man is extinct and not around to defend himself against such sordid comparisons.