Grant Cardone is a big fan of Donald Trump like his big Scientology donor friend Trish Duggan.
Cardone recently flew to California to speak at Trump’s Coachella rally.
He is now promoting his appearance at an upcoming Madison Square Garden rally.
I usually try to steer clear of things political here as it is generally off topic and tends to descend into back and forth name calling. But this stuff if putting it front and center, so here goes with my observations.
As I have said before, many Scientologists are one issue voters — the fear and hatred of psychiatry tends to make them steer clear of anything that might support mental health – thus the left’s support of healthcare is abhorrent.
They also tend to be anti-government in general following Hubbard’s well-documented lead.
Of course whales like Cardone and Duggan appreciate the promised tax breaks for the millionaire class that Trump offers.
A lot of people who will vote for Trump say they don’t like him or his personal choices or even what he says, but they like his “policies” — something I think is a very fallacious premise. You cannot separate the man (or woman) from their intentions and actions, something I learned the hard way through personal experience — and since reinforced by a lot of reading by those far smarter than me.
Many tend to gravitate to Trump because he “isn’t part of the political establishment” — he is not the status quo. This is something Hubbard said about himself often. But not being part of the establishment doesn’t make you either good or competent.
I am not oblivious to the fact that I fell for the Hubbard/Miscavige bs for a very long time — and excused the obvious less than desirable, even horrific truth about them. But eventually I did wake up and I feel compelled to note these things in the event it might help others. There are a lot of similarities between Trump and Hubbard/Miscavige. Plenty of politicians on both sides display some if these characteristics — but no other runs the table quite like Trump.
Consider these things:
Hubbard and Miscavige measure their success by how much money they make.
They claim they are for the benefit of all people, and have done more for everyone than anyone before them in history.
They thrive on being on stage in front of adoring audiences who hang on every word.
Surround themselves with the “best people” until they’re not — and then suddenly they are brain-dead, incompetent and failed suppressives who had to be gotten rid of because they were trying to bring the great men down.
Grandiose claimed accomplishments which never happened.
Lots of “stats” plucked out of nowhere or just made up that are presented as “proof” of accomplishments but mean nothing.
Incomprehensible word salad speeches.
Assert their superior knowledge/expertise in virtually every field.
Constantly trying to sell their followers overpriced items.
Never wrong about anything. Never apologize for anything even when the truth is easy to see.
Persecution complex (especially targeting the government for their problems) – anyone who isn’t with them is an enemy trying to get them.
Fanatical followers who march against, smear and threaten those they don’t like.
The media are merchants of chaos who lie about everything scientology/Hubbard/Miscavige.
Courts, opposing lawyers, prosecutors, judges and juries are unfair, biased and out to get them.
Extreme self aggrandizement — Hubbard proclaimed himself Buddha 2.0, Miscavige a super human and Trump the greatest president in history. Let that one sink in.
Apologies if this offends anyone. There are plenty of criticisms to be made about Harris too — but big time, prominent scientologists are not out supporting her like Cardone and Duggin.
It reminds me that having a lot of money doesn’t mean you are smart — but you can buy your way in to whatever you think is the cool club that makes it seems like you are.
IW says
Mike, I’ve been a long-time supporter and have immense respect for everything you’ve done for the ex-Scientology community. I admire your dedication and the positive impact you’ve made.
Because I care deeply about you and your legacy—both of which mean a lot to me—I want to offer some humble advice.
While Scientology has undoubtedly caused immense harm by dividing families and communities, there’s one force that has caused FAR more division than Scientology could ever dream of: politics. Especially during an election year, I can assure you that people, whether they’re never-ins, ex-SOs, or ex-Scientologists, don’t come here for political opinions.
People rarely change their political stance from arguments, and airing political views in this community might unintentionally create division. It’s completely okay if you personally support Democrats, but it’s crucial to keep politics out of this space. Introducing it could lead to unnecessary conflict, frustration, and division among your supporters.
Our community is small, and we need unity to continue fighting the abuses of Scientology. Alienating members based on political beliefs risks weakening the very community you’ve worked so hard to build.
I understand that political feelings run high right now, but mixing them with your years of effort to build this platform sends a confusing and off-brand message.
Look at how the other group, with its narcissistic leader (Aaron), is imploding. We need a strong, inclusive community where people of all beliefs and political backgrounds feel welcome. After all, your brand’s strength comes from the support of everyone, regardless of their political leanings.
Thank you very much for everything Mike, and please keep those podcast episodes coming!
Constantine says
Hear hear. Scientology is our fur themselves. Remember their live fir Clinton and Travolta sucking up? Now trump.
I just hope everyone votes their conscience. The number of comments here might get to Highest Evers just before Thurs at 2.
We all agree there’s a lot of people hurt by the cult. Here’s to survivors everywhere getting healed from the trauma.
Aquamarine says
Slightly off topic but not much:
Here’s what I don’t understand: Scientology, and Scientologists are against the Left’s support of mental health. Ok, understood.
Full disclosure: I happen to believe that too many people are being prescribed drugs to alleviate emotional distress for occurrances that are just part of life, and that way too many children are being given drugs when basically they’re hopped up on sugar and caffeine (candy, cookies, etc. and cola drinks).
I do believe that psychotropic drugs are being prescribed irresponsibly and much too freely. I’m not a doctor or a medical person in any regard. It just seems odd to me that human beings have survived for heaven knows how many millenia and but now as a regular regime we need drugs for everything – we need them to have sex, and to not have sex; we need them to socialize with others, to have energy, to focus and to not have too much energy or be too focused; to sleep or to not sleep too much; to handle grief, to go out in public…how did we survive this long without all these drugs enabling us to perform basic human functions? (And yes, I know there has always been alcohol and herbal remedies etc.)
Now, having said that, serious mental illness exists and has always existed. Schizophrenia, severe depression leading to suicide, psychosis…these conditions totally in my opinion require regular drug therapy, or else what is the alternative? Keeping people locked up, chained to the floor or walls, as in the Middle Ages, or in straight jackets during more modern times? No, no way. Drug therapy, regularly administered is the humane solution for people who are this far gone, mentally.
Now, Scientology decries the drugs used in these therapies while at the same time Scientology wants NOTHING do do with the “insane”. Hubbard states this VERY clearly in a number of his key references. Scientology is ONLY for the “able”; “making the able MORE able” …leave the insane ENTIRELY alone, do NOT audit them, do NOT train them – NO! Hubbard is ADAMENT about this! Scientology services are NOT FOR THE INSANE, per Hubbard, and the insane are NOT Scientology’s problem or within their purview at all.
And yet, Scientology and withal all Scientologists “in good standing” are AGAINST the drugs VERY MUCH NEEDED by the insane. Psychotic individuals, schizophrenics who hear voices that tell them to kill people, who sit down to dinner and see spiders crawling all over their plate – this level of mental illness, people who cannot function in society because they are a danger to themselves and/or others – these people need psychotropic drugs in them regularly and continuously.
But Scientology is against these drugs. So what is their solution to the problems of severe mental illness? Scientology wants nothing do do with them, so why don’t they just ignore the mental health industries solutions for the severely mentally ill, and concentrate on their own goals and plans, etc., for the “able”? Their agenda (theoretically per Hubbard) is to make Clears and OTs and train auditors – Ok why don’t they just do that, and ignore the issues for which they have no solutions?
mwesten says
“…these people need psychotropic drugs in them regularly and continuously.”
And yet six decades of clinical research shows this isn’t the case. Long-term neuroleptic use actually worsens patient outcomes and increases vulnerability to psychosis. Recovery rates are significantly higher for both the unmedicated and those who taper off within two years of initial treatment.
“…these conditions totally in my opinion require regular drug therapy, or else what is the alternative?”
wadr, that a yank would ask such a question is unsurprising. You live in the druggiest nation on Earth. Your drug regulator is funded by the pharmaceutical industry. As is your media. Its insidious influence on government, academia and clinical research is well documented. The idea that “drugs are the only answer” has been drummed into you for decades.
Neuroleptic alternatives include various forms of therapy (including, but not limited to, behavioural therapy, trauma reduction, psychoanalysis/psychodynamic therapies, major role therapy, etc), psychosocial care (including soteria, need adapted treatment, open dialogue, etc), relational frameworks and coping strategies.
“Psychotic individuals, schizophrenics who hear voices that tell them to kill people..”
As a side note, it’s been suggested that hallucinatory voices are actually shaped by one’s culture. Per Luhrmann, et al. 2014, “…while many African and Indian subjects registered predominantly positive experiences with their voices, not one American did. Rather, US subjects were more likely to report experiences as violent and hateful. […] The Americans experienced voices as bombardment and as symptoms of a brain disease caused by genes or trauma.” (BTs were not mentioned, strangely).
This, imho, adds weight to the idea that culture play a significant role in mental illness. In addressing the mental health crisis currently plaguing the West, maybe we need to start there.
Refs
Jung, E., Wiesjahn, M., Wendt, H., Bock, T., Rief, W., & Lincoln, T. (2016). Symptoms, functioning and coping strategies in individuals with schizophrenia spectrum disorders who do not take antipsychotic medication. Psychological Medicine, 46 (10), 2179-2188. doi:10.1017/S0033291716000775
Hopper K, Wanderling J. (2000). Revisiting the developed versus developing country distinction in course and outcome in schizophrenia: results from ISoS, the WHO collaborative followup project. International Study of Schizophrenia. Schizophr Bull. 2000;26(4):835-46.
Harrow, M., Jobe, T., & Faull, R. (2012). Do all schizophrenia patients need antipsychotic treatment continuously throughout their lifetime? A 20-year longitudinal study. Psychological Medicine, 42(10), 2145-2155. doi:10.1017/S0033291712000220
Wunderink L, Nieboer RM, Wiersma D, Sytema S, Nienhuis FJ. Recovery in Remitted First-Episode Psychosis at 7 Years of Follow-up of an Early Dose Reduction/Discontinuation or Maintenance Treatment Strategy: Long-term Follow-up of a 2-Year Randomized Clinical Trial. JAMA Psychiatry. 2013;70(9):913–920. doi:10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2013.19
Differences in voice-hearing experiences of people with psychosis in the USA, India and Ghana. Luhrmann, T. M. et al. British Journal of Psychiatry. June 26, 2014, doi: 10.1192/bjp.bp.113.139048
Oiram says
I’ve researched, observed, interacted, and experienced enough to know that you know what you’re talking about. I also acknowledge your courage and integrity to speak out as you have.
Thank you.
mwesten says
Most kind.
Thank you, Oiram.
Aquamarine says
mwestern, I freely acknowledge being totally unqualified to intelligently dialogue with you on workable therapies for severely mentally ill patients. i only ask that you please not make the bad assumption regarding me that because I am an American marinating my entire life in the pervasive establishment assumption of the efficacy of legal drug therapy I am a defacto proponent of drugs as a cure for mental illness. My comments regarding drug therapy were not made with that intention. I do not believe that drugs cure anything, in fact. Drugs only suppress symptoms, is what I believe and what I apply to myself. That said, I know of no other solution for the effective cure of severe mental illness. As far as I know – and again, I’m not a medical person, or an herbalist; I’ve made no studies formal or informal on this subject – as far as I know – which may well be a great deal less than you know – the only humane way to manage symptoms of severe mental illness is via regular drug therapy.
If there are other solutions out there which for whatever reasons are not being utilized – if there are indeed non-drugging ways to handle the symptoms and/or cure the actual mental illness from which the symptoms spring, believe me, you would not find someone more in enthusiastic approvoal of their implementation, with psychotropic drug therapy phased out or banned, than me.
Scooter says
Back when I first came out of the kult, I went to a birthday party for one of my daughter’s school friends in Victoria one Saturday. Her aunty was there and we got chatting. She was the psychiatrist in charge of one state’s (not Victoria’s) Govt. department that looked after mentally handicapped and their carers.
Remember this was but a few months after I’d come out of the kult and, iirc, I was still under the radar and hadn’t publicly come “out”.
i asked her why she would prescribe these drugs that seemed to have these horrific side-effects.
She answered immediately that, yes, they could have bad side-effects but it was for the carers’ sake as much as anyone that they quieten the person down enough so that the carers (often the aging parents of the schizophrenic or severe ADHD sufferer or whatever their diagnosis was) would be safer from the often-violent behaviours of the afflicted.
AND it meant that counselling would have a much better chance of success if the person taking the drugs were not being overwhelmed by their symptoms.
She also said that she personally worked on getting the patient OFF the drugs asap for everyone’s sake, but only when it was safe for the patient AND everyone around them.
We chatted for a bit after that about some of her work then moved onto safer (for both of us) subjects. But it changed my view on psychiatry and psychs in general 180 degrees.
So now when I see arguments about drug side-effects, I remember this caring professional who was in charge of a hell of a lot of cases and trying to do the right thing despite imperfect tools. No-one is perfect, but a lot of us try to be the best we can – by far the majority of humans that I’ve encountered since I began the long arduous journey out of $cientology’s total mind-f*#k.
Karl Woodrow says
Hey Mike!
Thanks for acknowledging the presence of the elephant which has been sitting in the corner of the room.
And no, your post is not about politics.
Trump is but one of many blow-hards and narcissists on the world stage. (As well as on smaller stages.)
Anyone who won’t or can’t see that Hubbard, Cardone, Trump, Roy Cohn, et al, have displayed many of the same destructive characteristics are just not looking very closely. It is right in plain sight like the elephant in the corner of the room that no one will acknowledge is there.
Unfortunately, there are many people in this world who cannot or will not think for themselves and therefore need to have a “leader” to believe in and follow.
This is the true “enemy within”.
2centsMcGee says
Scientology is foolish to believe they could use MAGA to their own advantage. When it reality those MAGA people are loyal to one man and one man only. His name isn’t Hubbard or Miscavige. Trump doesn’t have voters, he has FANS and could not have been elected without the USA’s obsession with celebrity culture. The Apprentice played a huge part in his public image and electability. Which of course leads back to how Scientology has always weaponized celebrity culture to fatten it’s own pockets.
Scientology did try to infiltrate MAGA 2016, they were eventually noticed by the movement and not welcomed by the everyday public.
Scientology wants to hide behind “freedom of religion” so it can continue the various misdeeds, cons and crimes of the church.
What they fail to realize is that Project 2025, would potentially weaken COS as well. As Christianity is pushed back into schools, the Scientology front groups in US schools would be pushed out. Christian Nationalists inside the movement would not welcome Scientology or share power.
The motivations of Duggan and Cardone are not complex, it could be just the selfishness of billionaires/ millionaires seeking tax breaks. As you pointed out.
Now the Church of Scientology could want Trump for a very different reason, he is unlikely to investigate them for their human trafficking crimes. He is very anti- justice department after his own legal run ins. He won’t work well with other arms of government, great news for the Scientology cult. They will try to use that to their advantage. While Project 2025 seeks to tear apart important aspects of our government that could go after Scientology down the road. Assuming they aren’t soon destroyed by Project 2025, as P25’s champions which will likely be placed throughout Trump’s administration were he to win.
It’s actually one of many reasons for people to not vote for him. His personal grievances will leave him weak on prosecution of the corrupt, which will HELP the Church of Scientology.
Harris has issues as well but there is a higher chance of Scientology facing a reckoning with her in office, than Trump. At least Harris might be the next step of still many steps, towards that end.
The prosecutions/ arresting of P.Diddy and then the former founder and CEO of Abercrombie and Fitch within the past week.
Could lead to a snowball effect. Human trafficking cases were involved with both. Civil lawsuits in both cases opened up Federal Investigation and then Pandora’s box.
It’s a lot harder with Scientology due to its status and arbitration clauses but the right civil cases could ignite a fire storm.
Bognition says
Great post. I’ve often wondered how scientologists think they’d have a place in the MAGA Christian-nationalist fascist state. Maybe they figure they could ante up some millions for protection in the new kleptocracy? It’s more likely most of them are just too dense to know wtf is going on. They’re too used to believing what they want to believe.
Aquamarine says
LOL! As I’ve shared ad infinitum here that I have Maga Evangelical Christian cousins. Now, the Scientologists can TALK a good game and my cousins and other Far Right types MIGHT be taken in and charmed, thinking this is a good link up between the 2 faiths. I wouldn’t be surprised at that.
But oh boy, wait until one day in some way or another they would learn that Hubbard called Jesus Christ a pedophile and lover of young boys…Oh My God pun intended…I can see their faces now! No kidding, forget Co$’s human trafficking, false imprisonment, Miscavige’s despotic rule, Disconnection, Fair Game – forget ALL of that! Christ was a pedophile? That woud be IT. Fini, caput, the end! Still laughing.
GL says
Cardone is plainly and simply a greedy parasite who will attach himself to anyone who has the potential to help him grift. It also helps that he know The Donald is a moron.
PeaceMaker says
GL, I’m not sure anyone who is an adherent of a group that sees Hubbard as more or less the messiah, and reveres Miscavige as the “COB” who is managing the CofS to unprecedented expansion, has any critical thoughts about DJT, either.
Alcoboy says
Sounds like Grant Cardone wants one of those tax breaks Trump is offering so he can donate the extra money to the IAS and get himself another bowling trophy.
Speaking of politics, a question for Mike: How do you feel about the situation in Australia? Are you in support of an Australian republic or do you think that your homeland should stick with King Charles?
John says
You condemn Trump for “guilt by association” Mike, but you conveniently ignore the who’s who’s of malfeasants that have endorsed Harris: e.g. King of the Neocon War Criminal’s Dick Cheney and his evil spawn daughter. I’m no fan of Trump (and I doubt he knows Cardone is a shill for the CO$), but I can’t begin to fathom why any sane, rational person would vote to continue the Biden/Harris S**tstorm of the past four years.
Sparkay says
What a pathetically stupid comment. Liz Cheney is an admirable woman. She is a true Republican. Trump is a wannabe dictator who has used the Republican Party to further his own wealth & ego. Biden & Harris have been cleaning up Trump’s mess from his total stuff up of Covid. Hope you don’t bring up politics again, Mike.
Geoffc says
I live outside the US but US politics very much influence my life. The choice here is simple, unlike other elections you have two people that have been in power and shown what they are about and what their visions are. The question is simple “are you better off now than you were before under President Trump?” We can talk about how the Democrats have shown they are a threat to Democracy – the Coup-detat that got VP Harris on the ticket, that Hillary Clinton still thinks the Russians stole the election, or the Georgia and NY AG running of a platform of “Get Trump” or how the Democrats treat the US population as idiots or how 20 million illegals have flooded the country but everyone will have counter arguments. I do think President Trump should distance himself from Scientology as they will exploit this to the full as justification but we need to be careful ruling out candidates because of who they associate with. I personally do not want more of the same, how people can consider a failure like VP Harris is beyond me but that is the beauty of Democracy.
Scnethics says
“are you better off now than you were before under President Trump?”
This is what gets me, from both sides. I have never been “under” Donald Trump. America has never been “under” Donald Trump, or any president. This is the chief executive of the US Government we are voting for, not God.
The economy moves in cycles. The up and down cycles are an inevitable result of market forces that every president and candidate tries to alternatively take credit for or blame their opposition for. Raise taxes, cut taxes, regulate, deregulate – the free market adapts and the cycle continues.
Iamnothere says
Donald T. is hunting the Shadow Government, and Scientologys Ether Idiots are being this.
Crazy circles.
aldeboni says
Aquamarine “And yet, not only prominent wealthy whales but ordinary pedestrian Scientologists support this man”… This means the Anti-Social-Personality is the needed peronalty… which is the reverse to Hubbard words… okay – but finally is an imaginary OT not an real OT… he admires only powers… but real intention is based on truth… …
Aquamarine says
@aldeboni,
“This means the Anti-Social-Personality is the needed peronalty (personality)…”
Is this your opinion?
I’m an ex Scientologist but if you read the characteristics of an Anti Social personality I would bet that neither you nor any sane person wouldn’t want much to do with someone who has a majority of them.
But perhaps I’ve misunderstood what you intended to say.
If so feel free to correct me 🙂
mwesten says
That people succumb to pretzel logic is unsurprising considering this is a closed world game with extremely limited options.
Much like Scientology.
And you’ll still be the effect of said game, whether you play it or not.
Rather than question the rules of the game – or those running it – and support efforts to make it more free and more engaging, most just bow down and accept it. Some choose to blame other players – an effort, perhaps, to minimise the cognitive dissonance this ridiculous game induces.
If you care about the game and its impact on all players and non-players alike, there is no choice.
If both candidates serve foreign lobbyists and the corporate donor class, if both candidates are pro-establishment, and if both candidates are genocidal war pigs, what then? Run through a list of personality traits? Is that what we’re reduced to? An Ups & Downs course? They both unapologetically support arming terrorists and funding genocide. What else do I need to know?
And when these are the only options given to us, it’s fair to say that those running the game don’t give a flying tuppenny about its outcome.
This is “democracy” apparently.
“Once you realize that Republicans and Democrats are competing factions of the mafia, American politics makes a lot more sense.” – Whitney Webb
Scooter says
Just to add a bit to your comparison between the two redhead Yankee fabulists:
I came across this last week in a review of “the Apprentice”, a movie about Trump’s “rise” as a business person.
Roy Cohn (Trump’s mentor and a leading prosecutor for Joseph McCarthy in the reds-under-the-bed saga) had 3 fail-safe rules of business:
“1/ Attack, attack, attack
2/ Admit nothing, deny everything
3/ No matter what happens, you claim victory and never admit defeat”
Sounds to me suspiciously like “Always attack, never defend etc. etc.” that we all know issued from the pen of Hubbard. Makes me wonder if this was yet something else the Fat Fraud took from elsewhere then wrote up as His own. A friend who’d worked on the Apollo told me Hubbard would read books constantly then write up His policy that was His take on the book He’s just read, twisted to suit His “needs”.
mark says
Scooter, thanks for mentioning Roy Cohn. He and Fred Trump gave The Orange Pelt “the best” sociopathic mentoring. Unapologetic (racist)Dirtbags, all of ’em.
Karl Woodrow says
Hi Scooter,
A side note on Roy Cohn:
(Trump has acknowledged him as being his mentor.)
Back in the 1950’s, it was socially and legally acceptable to fire defense department and state department officials for being homosexual. Roy Cohn, as Senator Eugene McCarthy’s attorney for the House of Representatives “Un-American Activities Committee”
caused many government employees to be fired for just this reason.
…But if this wasn’t bad enough, it was revealed years later that this hypocrite was himself gay! Unbelievable.
Aquamarine says
That’s right, and when he was diagnosed as HIV Positive, guess who dropped him as his attorney? And when Cohn died of AIDS complications, guess who didn’t attend his funeral?
I draw clear parallels between the behavior and mindset Cult of Scientology members and that of Donald Trump’s.
For both the former and the latter, all relationships are transactional.
Scientologists “in good standing” will (and per policy MUST) sever ties with anyone -ANYONE – CO$ decides is a threat to or an enemy of the Church, and what that person or group has done for the Scientologist preceding this decision, no matter how great the good, no matter how life saving or beneficial, counts for nought. Its Scientology’s way, or the highway.
Donald Trump has NO relationships that aren’t strictly transactional including his relationship with his called beloved daughter Ivanka. Don’t believe me? Watch the documentary, “Rich Kids” She’ll tell you. ( Ironically, now that her husband is a billionaire it appears that, at least publicly, SHE has dropped HIM. He taught her well.)
Aquamarine says
Scooter, add to that #4, i.e, he never, ever ever forgives or forgets a perceived slight and will forever after seek revenge in one form or another on that person, and #5, even when proven wrong about something with solid factual evidence backing it up, he never, ever admits that he was wrong and never, ever admits his error, or apologizes for it.
He appalls me but millions of Americans love him and defend him, unconditionally. Obviously what I observe in him is not what they observe, and vice versa!
Briget says
Disgusting. Supporting someone who is a convicted felon to have access to The White House and to be in charge of our (admittedly broken) country is something I cannot understand. Much less condone.
But then – look who I’m talking about here *facepalms*
Mick says
1. Politics.: When will someone ask …Heeeere’s Donny what he will and is doing to revoke the tax exempt status of scientology? And investigated the abuses and crimes.
2. Upcoming Prison: Maybe Mr “Ham Hock” Cardone can flip burgers while Donnie “Nuclear” tries to fry the fries in JAIL. And standing at 4’ 13” short, capt. davey “tiny tyrant” miscavigee can work the CASH register while standing on a step stool.
Rick says
Mike, I say this repectfully as someone who has read your book, enjoys the blog, watched many of the TV shows you did w/ Leah, etc. — I think it’s very foolish of you to mix your message with politics. If you’re truly about exposing/dismantling Scientology, it’s absurd to alienate approximately half of the US electorate. (And hello there to the commenters who will now swoop in and accuse me of being a fascist MAGA ignoramus blah blah blah — you’re proving my point.)
Mike Rinder says
Thanks. Telling the truth as I see it is more important to me than “alienating” readers.
If the reaction to this is to reject it without any thought or consideration it says a lot about the reader as this is reality not imagination. It puts such people in the same category as scientology sheeple. Something I know plenty about as a former head sheeple…
Stephen L Dolson-Andrew says
“I usually try to steer clear of things political here as it is generally off topic and tends to descend into back and forth name calling.”
“Apologies if this offends anyone.”
Then a reader points out the utter fatuity of alienating half your audience by implying that Trump appeals to gullible people who can’t think and/or won’t think for themselves, who make excuses for charlatans, and who willingly and complicitly look the other way when the leader engages in moral impropriety. And your response? This reader is one of the “sheeple”–unlike you, who were once like him but are now enlightened, having chosen the path of mental and spiritual freedom and, consequently, anti-Trumpism.
So much for your claim to want to avoid the “descent into name-calling,” Mike. And so much for the credibility of your “apology if this offends anyone.”
Aquamarine says
Leave Mike alone. Its his blog; he can share his opinion with us, he can have his opinion with which you or I or anyone here may not agree.
I believe that his purpose is not to offend anyone. I also believe that most other of the regulars reading and posting on this blog believe that his purpose is not to offend. He has since he started this blog 11 years ago been extraordinarily considerate of other viewpoints on a variety of subjects. I would very much doubt that he has “alienated” half of his audience.
Recently Mike has been dealing with personal life and death issues. Maybe he’s not in the mindset, right now, to dissemble and worry overmuch if what he honestly thinks and feels is not in sync with what some others here might think and feel. Maybe he just wants the relief of sharing himself with us about something that’s important to him. And he can do that. And he should.
So stop the pearl clutching, whining and sneering. Back off. He is a person; he shared his opinions honestly and respectfully and provided facts to back them up. Deal with it; grow up.
Mike Rinder says
Aqua – thank you for your understanding, support and kindness. The world would be a better place if more people shared your intelligence, grace and compassion.
Aquamarine says
You’re welcome, Mike, and right back at you with that, frankly.
Stephen Dolson-Andrew says
Look, I like Mike. I read his blog because no one is more interesting, informative, or insightful on Scientology. (And Mike: I do wish you well health-wise.)
He has every right to speak his opinion. He is admirably tolerant of dissenting opinions.
But this post was out of character for him. If he were only saying that Cardone is an obnoxious fool who supports Trump for venal reasons, that would have been unobjectionable to me. But instead the post reads as though Mike is actually suggesting there’s a correlation between the pathology of the Scientology mindset and Trump supporters. If that’s what he’s saying, then it’s nonsense. Roughly half the country is supporting Trump, and I’m sure Mike would acknowledge that there are many good and decent people in that camp, such as the politically conservative evangelicals who have befriended him.
On a personal note, Aqua: Mike is far more intelligent and articulate than you. He’s perfectly capable of defending himself, and he doesn’t need a mewling, self-appointed online bodyguard to hamhandedly field all the negative comments that come his way. So get a life and find a less embarrassing hobby.
Mike Rinder says
No need to be nasty to Aqua.
I’m not going to get into a debate about this other than to say some of my closest friends support Trump. I find it hard to believe when it comes to ex-scientologists but that is the power of a charismatic narcissist. A lot more than half the German population supported Hitler — including many, fine, intelligent people who never would have done so had they known the road he would ultimately lead them down. Its a poor argument to make — better to actually try to contest the facts of his words and actions, not the idea that people approve of them so it makes them ok… that’s what people do with Hubbard and Miscavige too — and they even use the same “he is beloved by millions” to ignore reality.
Stephen Dolson-Andrew says
Aqua came at me first for “pearl clutching, whining and sneering.” I simply defended myself.
I understand that you don’t want to get into a debate over this, but I need to clarify my point, because you’ve misunderstood my argument. I’m not saying that good people love Trump and therefore you should tolerate your Trump-supporting friends. Your response to that straw man is to say, “Well they’re just ignorant about Trump’s true intentions, like Scientologists and the Germans who voted for Hitler.” [By the way, you are incorrect that “a lot more than half the German population supported Hitler.” The Nazi party never received more than 43.9% of the vote, and the Germans never voted directly for Hitler. But even so, most of the Germans who voted for him were indeed culpable, insofar as his policies and intentions were public and crystal-clear, having been published in his manifesto “Mein Kampf” eight years earlier. So your attempted analogy of Trump supporters to Hitler supporters (cf. Godwin’s Law) doesn’t work, since most Germans weren’t ignorant of Hitler’s policies or intentions, just as most Trump supporters aren’t ignorant of his policies or intentions. In fact, we have already experienced 4 years of Trumpian governance, as well as nearly 4 years of your apparent preferred alternative. And we Trump supporters have concluded that it’s a much better country when Trump is in charge, than it is when Biden/Harris are in charge. Now, I doubt either of us are interested in debating why we prefer the version of America we prefer, but you have already acknowledged that good and decent and reasonable people can prefer Trump. And no, we are not ignorant, Mike. I have advanced degrees in Political Science and I teach it at the college level for a living. I know more about American politics than you do. This doesn’t make me better; it just makes me informed. And I’m not suggesting you are uninformed, like you are suggesting Trump supporters are uninformed. We just have a difference of opinion. And I would appreciate it if you would extend the courtesy of acknowledging that a well-informed, good-intentioned person can vote for Trump, just as I acknowledge that a well-informed, good-intentioned person can vote for his opponent.
Aquamarine says
Hi Stephen Dolson-Andrew,
Thanks for your response.
Understood that your perception of Mike’s post is that it “reads as though Mike is actually suggesting there’s a correlation between the pathology of the Scientology mindset and Trump supporters.”
I didn’t perceive that Mike was lumping ALL Trump supporters into this ONE category. Certainly this correlation between as you say, “the Scientology mindset” and a fervent, blind, automatic defense of and belief in Donald Trump DOES exist in a PORTION of the American electorate, would you not agree?
That said this mindset most certainly does NOT apply to ALL categories of supporters of Donald Trump for POTUS.
Certainly if you perceived that such was his meaning, its no wonder you were upset, offended and in emphatic disagreement!
This is an ExScientology blog, and what Mike wrote correlating the Scientology mindset (i.e, the propensity of still ini Scientologists to accept unquestioningly whatever they are told as true or untrue by David Miscavige, and to act accordingly) to their support of Donald Trump for President of the US has a good deal of validity, in my opinion.
On the other hand, they’re a tiny voter demographic. I venture to say that most Scientologists don’t even vote. I would bet money on that,
Trump supporters are a diverse category. In my business, personal relationships and in my own family I am well aquainted with at least 20 Trump supporters. Their reasons vary widely.
Last but not least my piling onto you as I did was a release of my own emotional reactions to your comment. It was all rather spontaneous on my part. I just said what I was feeling. I can be emotional sometimes 🙂
Stephen Dolson-Andrew says
Hi Aqua,
I appreciate your good faith effort to understand my objection, and for the most part you have. My responses are as follows:
(1) Yes, I agree with you that some Trump voters–albeit a minority of them–exhibit a blind, unquestioning adoration of the man that is reminiscent of a cult mentality, and this is concerning. On the other hand, there are many on the other side who regard him as “America’s Hitler,” as a man whose election will bring “the end of democracy in America”–a preposterous assertion which the Harris campaign has explicitly stated. I find this knee-jerk hatred of all things Trump–what some of us have labeled “Trump Derangement Syndrome”–equally irrational and repulsive.
(2) If Mike had intended to limit his argument about the pro-Trump mindset to ex-Scientologists alone, as you suggest, I believe he would have said so. If that’s what he were suggesting, I still would have had some disagreement with him, but I wouldn’t have been offended and I wouldn’t have commented in the first place. Instead, both from his original post and in his responses to Rick and to me, I see no reason to think that he intended such a narrow application to, as you say, a very small demographic of the voting population. Remember, I originally responded to Mike’s response to Rick, who had suggested that Mike had alienated “half the electorate” with his post. If Mike had intended only to implicate ex-Scientologists rather than make a sweeping indictment of Trump supporters in general, this would have been the perfect opportunity to say so. But his response to Rick (and later to me) seems to indicate otherwise. Even so, if he were to clarify his position now, I’d be more than happy to stand corrected.
Aquamarine says
Hi Stephen,
Thank you for this olive branch. And yes, I consider your response to me a definite olive branch.
When someone goes to the trouble of explaining in nuanced detail what he thinks, feels, believes and intends, the effect it has on me – despite what ever points between us are still unresolved, is always good one.
I myself find it important to understand and be understood, its a need of mine. So, when I perceive in someone else, whatever points of disagreement or misunderstanding existing between us – the same need, the same intention, these points become almost unimportant, or perhaps I should say, much less upsetting, because I know that the foundation for their resolution is there. Resolving them may include agreement or the agreement to disagree.
I came at you hammer and tongs because my perception (my perception) of what you wrote was an unfair and unwarranted attack on Mike (which I no longer believe it to have been) but at the time it fired up in me a need to defend him because…well, I don’t know why, exactly.
Anyway even as I lashed out and insulted you as I did I knew that I was creating antagonism unecessarily and that the points I was making could be communicated just as effectively in a respectful tone without insults.
However the desire to lash out right then won out. I’m sorry. I did know better.
Speaking of insults, you’re no slouch in that department yourself, Stephen 🙂 Obviously you’re a good writer but in particular, looking over the last paragraph of your original response to me there is, “…he doesn’t need a mewling, self-appointed, online bodyguard to hamhandedly field all the negative comments that come his way.” That is very well written and funny. Seriously, I’m not being snide or sarcastic, I swear. Its funny. I’m laughing, reading it again. I deserved it 🙂 Ciao for now.
Aquamarine says
Rick, respectfully, try this on for size:
Per L Ron Hubbard, Scientology judges and evaluates individuals and their worth to society via Hubbard’s 12 Anti Social Characteristics.
Anyone with 6 or more of the Anti Social characteristics is an Anti Social Personality – period. That’s Hubbard, OK? That’s what HE says, clearly, in writing.
Donald Trump doesn’t have a MAJORITY of Anti Social Characteristics – no. He has every one of them! He ticks EVERY box! Its amazing.
Don’t take my word for it, read them yourself and then tell me that PER L RON HUBBARD Trump is NOT a Suppressive Person!
Now, look over the 12 characteristics of a Social Personality; does Trump display ANY ONE of these? I can’t see anything “social” (per Hubbard) in what he says.
And yet, not only prominent wealthy whales but ordinary pedestrian Scientologists support this man.
Scientologists are expected to evaluate EVERYONE based on these characteristics, Social and Anti Social and they MAY well do so most of the time. I couldn’t speak to that. Scientologists seemingly have NO problem evaluating and judging friends, lovers, spouses, children, parents, employers, co-workers, etc. and distancing themselves from or disconnecting themselves from those they believe to have 6 or more of Hubbard’s Anti Social Characteristics.
Well, to anyone paying even halfway attention Donald Trump rather effortlessly displays all 12 of them so what are they using to judge and evaluate him as a person?
Aquamarine says
Also Rick, and I just thought of this; politics has become VERY mixed with religion of late. I have relatives who believe that God and Jesus Christ sent Trump to be President. I am not being funny. They believe that God and Jesus Christ are on the side of the Republicans, and that Democrats are evil, and minions of the Devil. I am NOT being funny, nor am I exaggerating in the slightest. My cousins believe this. The pastor of their church congregation TELLS them this and they believe it because he says so. They view the upcoming presidential election in religious apocalyptic terms of America’s Salvation (Trump) and the total collapse of the USA as we know it (Harris) .
PS: Minor correction: Hillary Clinton would not be a minion of the Devil in their minds. She is not a minion. She IS the Devil. Hilllary is Satan.
Disclaimer: And with this postscript I Am being funny and exaggerating.
Alcoboy says
I know. I attend a Salvation Army church and there are members of our congregation who believe along these lines.
Aquamarine says
And they’re probably very good people, well meaning and yet soooo susceptible to being utterly, mindlessly controlled by certain people. Its scary and sad and they vote and there are millions of them, from what I read. Heaven help us.
Mark says
Actually…in the big, human, multicultural historical record of civilizations on this planet, it could be argued that politics and religion are just two sides of the “who-is-in-power?” coin…
Aquamarine says
Yes, that’s true. The American concept of separation of church and state is – if one takes a long view of things- still a radical new experiment in government.
Frankly, I think we’re living in the middle of a huge ethnic change and that in the not too distant future Americans are as a group going to be browner skinned, and mostly bi lingual in English and Spanish. Just my opinion but I believe that its a matter of time before Spanish becomes a required language in American classrooms starting in 1st grade.
This shouldn’t bother anyone. It doesn’t bother me. I mean, so what? So eventually Americans will be mostly mixed race – and bi lingual in English and Spanish…so what?
Take England as an example. First there were the Celts for possibly thousands of years, speaking Celtic or whatever. Then the Romans came in, conquering them, taking over and running things, introducing Latin as the dominent language. That lasted 400 years. Then came the Saxon tribes plundered in with their Germanic language; then the Vikings bringing their culture and their language which mingled with the Saxon culture and language, then finally William the Conquerer showed up with his Norsemen and French became the dominant language with Latin only for the educated clergy, peasants and serfs speaking Anglo Saxon or Celtic in Ireland and Scotland. Talk about adjustment and readjustment of language and culture! The poor Celts! just when they were getting used to Roman rule, that was over and they had to deal with the Saxons. Then only a hundred years in came the Vikings stirring things up, then finally old William put them all under his thumb. The history of England – rife with constantly changing language, customs, mores, religions…England survived all this, incorporating all these changes into their own unique “culture”. If they could do it, so can we. But I’m wildly off topic so let me stop here.
Aquamarine says
Oh, and only one more thing (sorry, Mike) I forgot to incude the biggest change of all; the conversion of the amalgamation of Celts, Brits, Angles, Saxons and Vikings of Engand from their various “heathen” polytheisms to monotheistic Christianity! What with all the continual invasions, infighting, cultural changes, language changes, governmental and religious changes, etc., the occupants of what was that narrow little island could scarcely catch their breaths for a thousand years.
Aquamarine says
Mark, I thought I’d jump in here to point out the latest racist crap from Trump’s most recent rally in NYC with Cardone as one of the speakers. The opening speaker, an internet comic and podcaster set the tone for the rally by calling Puerto Rico a “floating island of garbage”. Cardone addressed the audience in the most vulgar, low class way. So very “theta”… What a “product” of Scientology this man is! Both inside Madison Square and outside the entire event was replete with vile insults and racial slurs to immigrants, African Americans and Hispanic Americans…forget dog whistling, they have bullhorns now. And Cardone is totally linked with all of it. So much for Scientology’s inclusiveness and embrace of all races, creeds, nationaliities, etc. Why, if it weren’t for immigrants the cult would have no Sea Org members left!
Mark says
Same as it has always been in America…I remember being the lone black kid in my 8th grade social studies class and calling Nixon a crook in a class discussion, as a couple of popular white girls(who worked on their suntans with great discipline) muttered “nigger” as I spoke, just loud enough for everyone in the class to hear them. And, no, the teacher didn’t correct them or throw them out of the class. In the same school I was assaulted by a teacher and I ended being suspended(long, fucked up story). That’s the kind of “every day racism” that every single person in my family has experienced. Just ‘normal shit’. And that’s mild compared to being…bought, sold, and treated as an animal, as a piece of property… We can’t even teach the actual, sordid history of our country in our schools-you know, the slavery, the wiping out of(i.e. GENOCIDE of) over 100 indigenous tribes, the land theft, et cetera ad nauseam…Insistence on discussing these kinds of historical facts is currently regarded by a sizeable segment of the American populace as some kind of character defect and/or plain ol’ stupidity and evidence of one’s innate inferiority…
IT’S FUCKING DEPRESSING AND INFURIATING!
Cheers to you Aqua for the historical perspective…though I have to say that Britain has definitely NOT come to terms with its history or its ethnic diversity…
*Sigh*
But…we carry on. Hugs.
Aquamarine says
Mark, in response to what you have endured as an African American youth in a racist society I can only think and say, “I am sorry”…wildly inadequate…”I am so sorry, I am so ashamed for my country.”
Full disclosure: my great, great, great, great grandfather was one of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence.
The USA was, is, a great experiment in governance “for the people, of the people, by the people etc.” but from the beginning there was a fatal policy flaw, a blind spot, a serious outpoint. namely the acceptance and ongoing legality of African slavery.
From the minute the Colonies declared itself independent from England with THAT document, and with what it unequivocally states are the inalienable rights to liberty and the pursutit of happiness and the fact that ALL men are created eqal – that every single living slave in America at the time was not AUTOMATICALLY set free from their owners by this document, was, by way of vast understatement, a very serious error.
The Declaration of Independence was an extremely radical document in declaring all men to be created equal. j
So far as it went, it was excellent policy for a new country; the problem was that this good, workable, sustainable policy did not get applied to a group of Americans who were a large portion of the population at that time, nor was it even acknowledged at the time that it SHOULD be applied.
“We hold these truths to be self evident…” Great words, gre powerful words, but by not acknowledging (or even possibly not realizing or knowing) that their African American slaves fell into the category of “men” i.e, human beings the Signers effectively ignored, denied and/or justified the humanity of millions of Americans.
In brief, Mark, I believe that the seeds that would capable of growing into what could destroy democracy in this country were planted by the non-application of this policy.
They were poisonous seeds, that became seedlings that grew into poisonous plants which choked the growth of healthy plants…at some point we saw how wrong it all was and freed the slaves and enacted other laws, etc. , we started hacking away at the poisonous monstrous weeds, cutting them down, uprooting them when possible, but we allowed them to take too strong a hold, and we’ve been hacking thru them for over a hundred years.
Freeing the slaves and enacting laws prohibiting discrimination against people of color was necessary but it came way too late – too little, too late. Racism is a habit with many white people Americans. That some humans are inately inferior is to them “self evident” by virtue of their darker skin color. Its quite simple, really. The darker skinned they are, the more inferior. Asking them to relinquish these ingrained beliefs is to me a waste of time. All that can be done with people like this is to ensure that laws forbidding such discrimination are enforced. Also giving breaks via Affirmative Action to African Americans helps a lot. I thnk public reparations would help also. Of course policies like this enrages such people. They’ve barely gotten used to the concept of obeying discrimination laws, and that racial slurs are no longer condoned. Thus we have Trump who gives them a “voice” which means its OK for them to racially slur, fear and hate those with darker skins be they African Americans , Hispanic immigrants, Muslim Americans, or whatever. And speaking of fear, there IS fear, they ARE afraid, VERY afraid, these Americans, of being no longer in the majority. Obama being elected President was a HUGE wake up call for them that the tide is turning and their white skin does not grant them automatic superiority. And the fact that he’s an intelligent, educated, articulate, well mannered man who is also a faithful husband and a good father – Mark, I tell you, these people hate Obama with a purple passion.
The good news is that this group of Americans are for the most part quite old, and dying out. In my work I interact continually with mostly Generation Z. For the most part I find them refreshingly without racial prejudice, these 20 somethings. Of course I’m in an urban area so I can only speak regarding what I directly observe.
I’m probably as pale as any Caucasian American woman could be. I was the only child of older parents, who married when they were older, who had each worked for many years before they married. Each in their own jobs before marriage had travelled all over the world, met and mingled with and befriended people of other nationalities, races, religions, skin colors, etc. They had also met and mingled with and befriended other Americans who had done the same. They were not “elites” nor were they wealthy but they were not provincial people either. Their life’s experiences afforded them a certain cosmopolitan nonchalance, and certain, “so what?” viewpoint regarding people who were different from them. They raised me in their understanding that peoples’ differences were not necessarily threatening and frequently interesting with regard to their differences; to my parents, differences in culture, language, nationality, skin color etc were not a big deal and they raised me with their viewpoint …I didn’t have them very long but I consider myself lucky to have been their child.
On a positive note my work puts me in touch with a lot of young 20-somethings who are refreshingly not prejudiced -at least from what I’ve observed over the past 10 years. That said there’s still a long way to go. The old racist Americans have to die off, though. They have too much political power, and they’re not going to change. In the meantime, before they die, they have to be made to obey the law no matter how much they hate and resent it. I do believe we’re at a real turning point in our collective attitude with regard to race.
This post has been so off topic but only you will be reading it so maybe Mike will let it go thru 🙂
PeaceMaker says
I’ve noticed that ex-members also often seem still attracted to that type of charismatic authoritarian pathological narcissist. Such figures also use the “gish gallop” rhetorical technique (which can also be said to exploit “confusion technique”) that can seem attractive and persuasive when listened to and followed along with, even though on analysis — such as reading a transcript — it’s nonsensical and baseless.
And I’d add to the list:
Accusing opponents (real and imagined) of what they themselves are guilty of.
Aquamarine says
Yes, its all that “certainty” you know. These authoritarian types are just SO sure, SO certain and last but not least, the solution, the answer to the problem is so simple, so uncomplicated and the language is so down to earth and satisfyingly simple ..the tone conveys NO doubt, there’s only this ONE way…what a relief, not to have to think or worry, with this strong, positve person totally in charge! And how could someone so sure about everything possibly be misinformed, lying or in any way wrong?
Kind of like the way we thought about Mom and Dad at the age of 5.
mark says
PeaceMaker and Aquamarine, you both nailed it: Big Daddy has the answers, don’t analyze or question, just follow the Anointed One…
Mark says
Hi Mike Rinder, please pass my email address on to Aquamarine. I’d like to continue my conversation with her regarding cults, race, American history, etc.
Thanks for providing this blog and this forum for us to respond/comment in.
Big Love to you and your loved ones!
Mark
Mike Rinder says
Done
mark says
Thank you🙏🏽
LoosingMyReligion says
A couple of observations from a profane of US politics and living in Italy.
Scn defines itself as apolitical by nature. However, I do not think that Cardone threw himself into this story without the consent of OSA.
He could not even have dared to think so. And the two of them without the blessing and approval of DM.
Here it’s logical to assume that scn is behind this operation in a big way.
The other observation is that Trump seems to me to be a much bigger and hungrier shark than the clownfish Cardone and the little piranha Dave.
Cindy says
If the big blowhard Grant Cardone likes Trump so much, let him put his money where his mouth is. I didn’t read that he donated a bunch to Trump’s campaign. That leads me to think Cardone is not doing as well as he boasts he is. Grant was being investigated and it was said he would go to jail, but I haven’t seen any more on it. Did the investigation turn up anything? If Trump is smart, he will distance himself from Grant Cardone and from the C of S in general.
Aquamarine says
Trump will align himself with anyone who praises him and gives him big money or the promise of big money, or powerful influence or the promise of powerful influence.
Bognition says
This guy Cardone certainly is a piece of work. At the Madison Square Garden fascist rally last week,
“Businessman Grant Cardone told the crowd that Harris ‘and her pimp handlers will destroy our country.'”
As Hubbard said, “The overt doth speak loudly in accusation.” Nowadays we call it PROJECTION.
Annie says
You have done an amazing job analyzing scientologists almost universal support of Trump. In 2016 a friend’s son in the SO told his father they were told to vote for Trump (I didn’t). Interestingly, they fail to follow Hubbard’s writing about anti-social personalities which describes Trump, Miscavige etc., although they call ex members anti-social personalities who fit none of the characteristics in their supposed “scriptures”. Almost all my former Scientology friends were Trump supporters. Many were also pretty angry, unhappy people who tended to mistreat the people closest to them. At some point I realized that most of the people in my life who treated me the worst were Scientologists. When I found out that they protected child molesters, that ended it for me. I guess guess that many if them now support a rapist for President should not a surprise. I wouldn’t support one no matter what party he was running in. I think financial gain is just too powerful and incentive for some people and that is the only thing that matters as they know he will give tax breaks to the very wealthy. With the exception of top donors like Duggan and Cardone, most Scientologists are pretty poor after all their donations, but they still want a liar, rapist, thief as President. Almost all my former closest friends in Scientology had to declare bankrupcy as a result of their donations but they still believe it is true.
PeaceMaker says
Annie, Hubbard’s definition of anti-social personalities must carefully have omitted his own type of malignant or sociopathic narcissist, with traits such as lack of empathy and underlying contempt (the opposite of admiration) for almost everyone else – thus creating a blind spot regarding other such cultish leaders, and even a tendency to admire and idolize such manipulative and amoral authoritarians.
Aquamarine says
Wow, we’re tracking, Annie. I wrote my comment about the 12 anti social characteristics before reading yours.
Chris Shugart says
There may not be many Scios who support Kamala Harris, but it might make for an interesting tell to find the rare few who do.
Aquamarine says
Chris, I think what terrifies Miscavige is the revocation of Scientology’s tax exempt status which under Harris and a Democratic Congress and Senate is legislation that could conceivably be at least proposed, whereas in a Republican administration it would have no chance. I believe that for most Scientologists the mental health issue is paramount but for the establishment church itself the issue first and foremost is preserving tax exempt status. Just my opinion,
mark says
Yup. Hubfart’s 9th dynamic: MONEY. Captain Pimp McSavage is all about those Benjamins as well.
Aquamarine says
With people like this its ALWAYS all about the money. Just follow the money, follow the money, follow the money. That’s your Yellow Brick Road that will lead you to a phoney Wizard and the whole shameless scam they’re pulling.
Mark says
Yes, so true. Whatever the historical period, whatever the culture, whatever the geographical location: it’s about money, resources, land, and the control of the people and the areas where the “valuables” are located.
Same shit, different centuries…
🤓