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	Comments on: A Primer on Brainwashing	</title>
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	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2021 01:19:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Clarissa		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-444871</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clarissa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2021 01:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Hi. I&#039;m currently in school for Elementary (4k through 9th grade) Education. Besides trying to teach critical thinking as I would anyways, what can school teachers do to try to help students who are in cults like Scientology or The family? 
I know many Scientologists go to special Scientology &quot;schools&quot; or join the Sea Org, but on the podcasts, I&#039;ve heard some say that they went to normal public or private schools that were not Scientology schools. 
Our hands are somewhat tied because we have to respect religions, but if anyone has suggestions of things that wouldn&#039;t be grounds for the teachers being reprimanded, I would like to hear them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi. I&#8217;m currently in school for Elementary (4k through 9th grade) Education. Besides trying to teach critical thinking as I would anyways, what can school teachers do to try to help students who are in cults like Scientology or The family?<br />
I know many Scientologists go to special Scientology &#8220;schools&#8221; or join the Sea Org, but on the podcasts, I&#8217;ve heard some say that they went to normal public or private schools that were not Scientology schools.<br />
Our hands are somewhat tied because we have to respect religions, but if anyone has suggestions of things that wouldn&#8217;t be grounds for the teachers being reprimanded, I would like to hear them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ToriR		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-376037</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ToriR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2021 02:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2549600#comment-376037</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hey Mike! I’ve been a fan of the show and recently started binging your podcast with Leah. The one about the NXIVM really caught my attention. I have never been in a cult but I feel like I can relate to the brainwashing as a child of a parent with NPD (narcissist personality disorder). Many of the things mentioned in this blog are so relatable to my childhood. I wasn’t even aware of NPD until my 30’s and I have been able to do so much healing and research in the years since. I was curious if you guys have ever had anyone else mention NPD or if anyone else can relate in this manner? 
All of the points mentioned (while not to the extreme of Scientology or NXVIM) are eerily similar. I’ve always resonated with the show, but it wasn’t until the podcast and reading this blog that a lightbulb went on.
Thanks for continuing the work you do because you’re helping people like me who were never affected by a cult but by a parent with NPD.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Mike! I’ve been a fan of the show and recently started binging your podcast with Leah. The one about the NXIVM really caught my attention. I have never been in a cult but I feel like I can relate to the brainwashing as a child of a parent with NPD (narcissist personality disorder). Many of the things mentioned in this blog are so relatable to my childhood. I wasn’t even aware of NPD until my 30’s and I have been able to do so much healing and research in the years since. I was curious if you guys have ever had anyone else mention NPD or if anyone else can relate in this manner?<br />
All of the points mentioned (while not to the extreme of Scientology or NXVIM) are eerily similar. I’ve always resonated with the show, but it wasn’t until the podcast and reading this blog that a lightbulb went on.<br />
Thanks for continuing the work you do because you’re helping people like me who were never affected by a cult but by a parent with NPD.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ellen		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-373454</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ellen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2020 21:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2549600#comment-373454</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370780&quot;&gt;Nancy Vasta&lt;/a&gt;.

The examples given in this article are extremes. Lots of people who end up in cults seem to be looking for a guru to lead them from the get-go. So, by way of example, it isn&#039;t surprising to learn that prior to joining NXIVM, Mark Vicente was involved with another cult. 

But it is a serious mistake to read something like this and assume that the take-away lesson is &quot;some people are born to fall for this kind of thing.&quot; For every Mark Vicente--someone who was looking to believe--there are many more Sarah Edmonsons, who are skeptical and see cults and their leaders as &quot;weird&quot; or &quot;uncomfortable&quot;, but end up getting sucked in, anyway. 

Absolute obedience is a feature of many social groups that aren&#039;t cults. Most notably, the military. See again and again instances of military forces getting charged with war crimes who excuse their actions as&quot;just following orders&quot;. Also, think of parents and children, especially young children. Caretakers count on kids obeying them even when they don&#039;t want to or understand why they should have to, so that they can be kept safe. 

As for de-individuation. Again, this is a feature of the military: a good soldier doesn&#039;t just do as they are asked, they are also willing to die and kill for their fellow soldiers--and for the entire country. In many cases, seeing oneself as part of a greater whole that is worth more than the individual by themselves is a virtue. Think about challenging projects at work in which individuals sacrificed time with families, sleep, even pay to help the whole team.

And, finally, depletion: enduring extreme environments, putting up with little sleep and less food and still rising to the occasion--this is actually a feature of extreme strength and dedication. Pushing ourselves to be the best makes us better athletes, helps us protect our loved ones in times of war and disaster, and can teach us important spiritual lessons.

All three of these things are part of normal group dynamics on one level or another, but in a cult they are pushed to an extreme for nefarious ends and they are underpinned by lies and manipulation. The extreme implementation of these three principles happened years after people had joined, and often wasn&#039;t even apparent to them until the very end. 

Mark Vicente wanted to make the world a better place--and he wanted to be the best version of himself that he could be. He was already primed to expect that doing so would require great sacrifice on his part, because he had grown up with activist family in apartheid South Africa. NXIVM seemed like a way to do that--both from what people were telling him, but also from what he saw with his own eyes and heart. And NXIVM courted him--went out of their way to chase him down and recruit him. For most of his time with the cult, he only saw the very best.

For Sarah and Mark, NXIVM seemed magical until it wasn&#039;t. Both folks made money, build satisfying careers for themselves, met their spouses, and made incredible friendships BECAUSE they were in NXIVM. There were plenty of warming signs along the way, but also plenty of tangible benefits to being where they were. 

It could happen to anyone.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370780">Nancy Vasta</a>.</p>
<p>The examples given in this article are extremes. Lots of people who end up in cults seem to be looking for a guru to lead them from the get-go. So, by way of example, it isn&#8217;t surprising to learn that prior to joining NXIVM, Mark Vicente was involved with another cult. </p>
<p>But it is a serious mistake to read something like this and assume that the take-away lesson is &#8220;some people are born to fall for this kind of thing.&#8221; For every Mark Vicente&#8211;someone who was looking to believe&#8211;there are many more Sarah Edmonsons, who are skeptical and see cults and their leaders as &#8220;weird&#8221; or &#8220;uncomfortable&#8221;, but end up getting sucked in, anyway. </p>
<p>Absolute obedience is a feature of many social groups that aren&#8217;t cults. Most notably, the military. See again and again instances of military forces getting charged with war crimes who excuse their actions as&#8221;just following orders&#8221;. Also, think of parents and children, especially young children. Caretakers count on kids obeying them even when they don&#8217;t want to or understand why they should have to, so that they can be kept safe. </p>
<p>As for de-individuation. Again, this is a feature of the military: a good soldier doesn&#8217;t just do as they are asked, they are also willing to die and kill for their fellow soldiers&#8211;and for the entire country. In many cases, seeing oneself as part of a greater whole that is worth more than the individual by themselves is a virtue. Think about challenging projects at work in which individuals sacrificed time with families, sleep, even pay to help the whole team.</p>
<p>And, finally, depletion: enduring extreme environments, putting up with little sleep and less food and still rising to the occasion&#8211;this is actually a feature of extreme strength and dedication. Pushing ourselves to be the best makes us better athletes, helps us protect our loved ones in times of war and disaster, and can teach us important spiritual lessons.</p>
<p>All three of these things are part of normal group dynamics on one level or another, but in a cult they are pushed to an extreme for nefarious ends and they are underpinned by lies and manipulation. The extreme implementation of these three principles happened years after people had joined, and often wasn&#8217;t even apparent to them until the very end. </p>
<p>Mark Vicente wanted to make the world a better place&#8211;and he wanted to be the best version of himself that he could be. He was already primed to expect that doing so would require great sacrifice on his part, because he had grown up with activist family in apartheid South Africa. NXIVM seemed like a way to do that&#8211;both from what people were telling him, but also from what he saw with his own eyes and heart. And NXIVM courted him&#8211;went out of their way to chase him down and recruit him. For most of his time with the cult, he only saw the very best.</p>
<p>For Sarah and Mark, NXIVM seemed magical until it wasn&#8217;t. Both folks made money, build satisfying careers for themselves, met their spouses, and made incredible friendships BECAUSE they were in NXIVM. There were plenty of warming signs along the way, but also plenty of tangible benefits to being where they were. </p>
<p>It could happen to anyone.</p>
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		<title>
		By: DawneSN		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-372570</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DawneSN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2020 15:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2549600#comment-372570</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have worked with people involved in cults for about 35 years, mainly Jehovah&#039;s Witnesses. I have studied this phenomenon and agree with all and more except that I would call what happens during induction into a cult the use of mind control rather than brainwashing. This may seem like semantics, but I believe the distinction is important. 

BRAINWASHING is when you KNOW you are being coerced, such as when you&#039;ve been taken captive and are being subjected to torture which range from the methods described in this blog to the much more often used outright physical and emotional torture. This would be used in totalitarian regimes, for prisoners-of-war, the re-indoctrination of specific ethnic groups with in a regime, etc. 

MIND CONTROL is when you are unaware that psychological techniques are being used on you. You are not obviously captive, although you might have been willing taken to a location from which you cannot leave due to its remoteness. You are &quot;gently&quot; coerced into groupthink with subtle techniques. By the time you may realize what has happened to you--can be a relatively short or a fairly long period of time--you believe you are locked in due to your fears of being rejected by the group, all your family and friends are now in the group, and you fear of losing all these loved ones. Also, you may believe you will lose your salvation (ability to go to heaven) if you are outside of the group. 

I can see to some degree where &quot;brainwashing&quot; may be a possible term in the context of Scientology, especially for those raised in it. And they are at times physically captive and beaten. Generally in the major cults of Christianity, physical captivity is not in operation. I won&#039;t say never, though. 

I work as a lay person and volunteer within a biblical Christian context. I am mostly familiar with cults of Christianity of which Scientology and NXIVM are not. (Every time I hear Leah or Mike talk about Scientology as a &quot;church&quot; I cringe. There is NO resemblance.) I have been reading about Scientology beginning with the book Going Clear (excellent) and moving to Leah and Mike&#039;s TV series and now their Fair Game podcast--all excellent and very informative. I pray only the best and THE truth for these abused folks. The abuse is distinctive from most cults of Christianity, and seems even more harrowing to me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have worked with people involved in cults for about 35 years, mainly Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses. I have studied this phenomenon and agree with all and more except that I would call what happens during induction into a cult the use of mind control rather than brainwashing. This may seem like semantics, but I believe the distinction is important. </p>
<p>BRAINWASHING is when you KNOW you are being coerced, such as when you&#8217;ve been taken captive and are being subjected to torture which range from the methods described in this blog to the much more often used outright physical and emotional torture. This would be used in totalitarian regimes, for prisoners-of-war, the re-indoctrination of specific ethnic groups with in a regime, etc. </p>
<p>MIND CONTROL is when you are unaware that psychological techniques are being used on you. You are not obviously captive, although you might have been willing taken to a location from which you cannot leave due to its remoteness. You are &#8220;gently&#8221; coerced into groupthink with subtle techniques. By the time you may realize what has happened to you&#8211;can be a relatively short or a fairly long period of time&#8211;you believe you are locked in due to your fears of being rejected by the group, all your family and friends are now in the group, and you fear of losing all these loved ones. Also, you may believe you will lose your salvation (ability to go to heaven) if you are outside of the group. </p>
<p>I can see to some degree where &#8220;brainwashing&#8221; may be a possible term in the context of Scientology, especially for those raised in it. And they are at times physically captive and beaten. Generally in the major cults of Christianity, physical captivity is not in operation. I won&#8217;t say never, though. </p>
<p>I work as a lay person and volunteer within a biblical Christian context. I am mostly familiar with cults of Christianity of which Scientology and NXIVM are not. (Every time I hear Leah or Mike talk about Scientology as a &#8220;church&#8221; I cringe. There is NO resemblance.) I have been reading about Scientology beginning with the book Going Clear (excellent) and moving to Leah and Mike&#8217;s TV series and now their Fair Game podcast&#8211;all excellent and very informative. I pray only the best and THE truth for these abused folks. The abuse is distinctive from most cults of Christianity, and seems even more harrowing to me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: chuckbeattyx75to03		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370987</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chuckbeattyx75to03]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2020 00:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2549600#comment-370987</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370807&quot;&gt;Mary Kahn&lt;/a&gt;.

wow Mary!

The &quot;lost Tech&quot; is PTS Type A handling emphasis, which used to be focused on in the late 1970s, and then in 1982 it just went nuts and PTS A handlings got discontinued.

So maybe they have rediscovered PTS A handlings.   (When I was in Senior HCO Int, I never had anyone I coached disconnect, I always always used &quot;good roads, fair weather&quot; based on the 1978 emphasis and final Hubbard re-emphasis on PTS A (meaning do NOT disconnect, but repair it all with comm, and follow the Fundamentals of Thought/Problems of Work &quot;tech&quot;, since back in the 1950s, all the &quot;tech&quot; was just &quot;good roads/fair weather&quot; coaching, which was more sensible, since almost everyone is NOT an SP, and disconnection was the wrong PTS handling to swing the person being coached into disconnecting, even though that disconnection choice just over and over would be misused.

It&#039;s got a huge  whole history, the misuse of disconnection, versus &quot;good roads, fair weathr&quot; PTS A mild coaching longer term handling, which kept families intact, etc, etc.

I could imagine, that with the statute of limitations protecting them from suits, they might be swinging back to the milder PTS A handlings.

Let&#039;s see?   (If Miscavige has allowed Exec Strata to reform, the EEI job in Exec Strata would be the one to discover and re-implement PTS A handlings to swing them back to better &quot;normal&quot; like in earlier eras when PTS A handlings were all there were, namely in the 1950s that was it, up until the PTS A to J policy came out, but even the A to J policy, that&#039;d be a huge improvement if they shifted from their decades of wrongful disconnection back to just PTS A to J).  

If they did, that is NEWS to be noted and written about in media.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370807">Mary Kahn</a>.</p>
<p>wow Mary!</p>
<p>The &#8220;lost Tech&#8221; is PTS Type A handling emphasis, which used to be focused on in the late 1970s, and then in 1982 it just went nuts and PTS A handlings got discontinued.</p>
<p>So maybe they have rediscovered PTS A handlings.   (When I was in Senior HCO Int, I never had anyone I coached disconnect, I always always used &#8220;good roads, fair weather&#8221; based on the 1978 emphasis and final Hubbard re-emphasis on PTS A (meaning do NOT disconnect, but repair it all with comm, and follow the Fundamentals of Thought/Problems of Work &#8220;tech&#8221;, since back in the 1950s, all the &#8220;tech&#8221; was just &#8220;good roads/fair weather&#8221; coaching, which was more sensible, since almost everyone is NOT an SP, and disconnection was the wrong PTS handling to swing the person being coached into disconnecting, even though that disconnection choice just over and over would be misused.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s got a huge  whole history, the misuse of disconnection, versus &#8220;good roads, fair weathr&#8221; PTS A mild coaching longer term handling, which kept families intact, etc, etc.</p>
<p>I could imagine, that with the statute of limitations protecting them from suits, they might be swinging back to the milder PTS A handlings.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s see?   (If Miscavige has allowed Exec Strata to reform, the EEI job in Exec Strata would be the one to discover and re-implement PTS A handlings to swing them back to better &#8220;normal&#8221; like in earlier eras when PTS A handlings were all there were, namely in the 1950s that was it, up until the PTS A to J policy came out, but even the A to J policy, that&#8217;d be a huge improvement if they shifted from their decades of wrongful disconnection back to just PTS A to J).  </p>
<p>If they did, that is NEWS to be noted and written about in media.</p>
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		By: Mary Snow		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370952</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary Snow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2020 21:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2549600#comment-370952</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370780&quot;&gt;Nancy Vasta&lt;/a&gt;.

That&#039;s interesting about hardwiring.

When I was little my mom brought me to the Brownies (pre Girl Scouts) and I spent the day doing arts and crafts with the other girls all in their brown uniforms.

After, mom asked me if I wanted to join. I said: Do I have to wear the uniform? She said yes and explained it further.

I decided against it and told her, &quot;No thank you.&quot; She was fine with my decision.

I actually remember getting a creepy vibe about taking the oath and wearing the uniform. Even that young. I&#039;ve been like that all of my life. I hate labeling people or being labeled. I never join organized groups. Though I&#039;m a spiritual person there&#039;s no religion on earth I feel the need to join.  

I must be missing that wiring too.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370780">Nancy Vasta</a>.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s interesting about hardwiring.</p>
<p>When I was little my mom brought me to the Brownies (pre Girl Scouts) and I spent the day doing arts and crafts with the other girls all in their brown uniforms.</p>
<p>After, mom asked me if I wanted to join. I said: Do I have to wear the uniform? She said yes and explained it further.</p>
<p>I decided against it and told her, &#8220;No thank you.&#8221; She was fine with my decision.</p>
<p>I actually remember getting a creepy vibe about taking the oath and wearing the uniform. Even that young. I&#8217;ve been like that all of my life. I hate labeling people or being labeled. I never join organized groups. Though I&#8217;m a spiritual person there&#8217;s no religion on earth I feel the need to join.  </p>
<p>I must be missing that wiring too.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chee Chalker		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370951</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chee Chalker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2020 20:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2549600#comment-370951</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370841&quot;&gt;Kronomex&lt;/a&gt;.

It’s why I always wash my brain by hand and hang it up to dry!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370841">Kronomex</a>.</p>
<p>It’s why I always wash my brain by hand and hang it up to dry!</p>
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		<title>
		By: jojo		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370850</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jojo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2020 00:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2549600#comment-370850</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree it isall about control so they can capture their money. One thing I wonder is that is seems that many that speak out seem to speak out against Miscavige. Leading me to believe if he leaf they would gladly join again.  The  whole religion is a brainwashing cult.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree it isall about control so they can capture their money. One thing I wonder is that is seems that many that speak out seem to speak out against Miscavige. Leading me to believe if he leaf they would gladly join again.  The  whole religion is a brainwashing cult.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Murmur		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370845</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Murmur]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2020 22:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2549600#comment-370845</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370793&quot;&gt;Kathy&lt;/a&gt;.

Interesting. Sounds like they’re doing some sort of “handlings”. 
At least it’s a start ........ maybe]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370793">Kathy</a>.</p>
<p>Interesting. Sounds like they’re doing some sort of “handlings”.<br />
At least it’s a start &#8230;&#8230;.. maybe</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kronomex		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/a-primer-on-brainwashing/#comment-370841</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kronomex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2020 22:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2549600#comment-370841</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I tried washing my brain a few days ago and all I got was a headache from my head banging around in the the washing machine.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried washing my brain a few days ago and all I got was a headache from my head banging around in the the washing machine.</p>
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