Succinct and poignant! Yes hear hear!

It is a weakness to be honest and caring in sciento!kgy sadly.

Scientology is eradicating psychiatry about as much as Saints Alive in Jesus is eradicating Mormonism or Jack Chick booklets are getting rid of the Catholic church.

Thomas Szasz was the Hungarian psychiatrist who helped the Cof $ found CCHR back in 1969.

According to the “scriptures” of L. Ron, they are below 2 on the tone scale and should be disposed of without sorrow. Keeping them in a room of the fort Harrison until they die of dehydration takes too long and is no good for stats. L. Ron praised a Venezuelan dictator who got rid of leprosy by dumping the beggars affected with this disease into the sea.

No donation required alcoboy. Just watch any IAS event with Dave speaking to easily induce vomiting. Then patronize Kmart by buying a trophy to symbolize your accomplishment, and voila, the status you seek will be yours.

FG : “A real study a psychiatry has to be done. Book have been written by psychs about it. Denouncing the abuse. Now, the law should not provide them such a power to lock people. The work of CCHR in the the 1960 and 70 was helping to reform it.”

“Now, like all church actions it’s a mean to collect money for Miscavige. Scientology is emasculated, nobody think it can help… It’s very sad and so untrue. Miscavige is a criminal and the day he will fall will be a great moment of joy. I am not a hater of anything, but of Miscavige yes…. unlimited tone 40 postulate that he will be invaded by cancer cells!”

Peter : Now , be careful with such postulates , my friend. Such postulates always back-fire. DM is not worth it. Just concentrate on getting better in life , and doing the right thing , and everything will balance out sooner than later. No bad deeds go un-punish in life. DM will have his justice , rest assured. But not necessarily human justice , but one much , much worse.

FG : “Thank you Peter, what you say is so true. It blows also my charge as it reflects so much my viewpoint.”

Peter : You are most welcome , FG ; I am glad that it helps.

FG : “Scientologists, most of them are “out of”. Too much BPC can put you to oblivion and death.”

Peter : Tell me about it !!! ; there are states quite beyond death which I have had the “privilege” of experiencing. Not good states at all !!!

FG : “I myself need to get out of it, and nothing else but the tech can do it.”

Peter : Just grab your e-meter , and run some list Solo style. You can do it , I assure you. C/S-53 covers it all.

FG : “I have also been auditing many people. For example, I was running a life repair on a woman. She was looking for a psychotherapy, did some but was not satisfied, and found a little mission where I was auditing (40 years ago, I was in my twenties). I did two way comm on subject of her life which might interest her and I took reading area to prepcheck. God this prepcheck was incredible the TA was blowdowning. At the end of the session we were both a bit exhausted. The next day she came. She sat in front of me and said, “It’s so incredible, I wake up this morning… and I felt life was again on me…” and she was crying… of joy. It was so wonderful to look at.”

Peter : That was a great job indeed! I love Prepchecks ; they are one of the best Repair tools together with 2WC. And so easy to do indeed.

FG : “Hubbard says that people are ARC broken with life, and I tell you when you handle that you have done so much more than most of psychotherapy.”

Peter : Yes , indeed one have.

FG : “I also remember an LIC done all over again and again on a woman whose husband or boy friend left her. She was so upset. She could have been upset for a long time, but we handled all the by past charge. And so many examples.”

Peter : Good work. L1Cs can handle so much if done properly by auditors no so robotic to “standard Tech”. You are DEFINITIVELY not one of those.

FG : “I share the hope of Theta Clear that this subject will never fall into oblivion, survive the Church, Miscavige and the Haters, and will find his right place in the humanities.”

Peter : It will , my friend , it will.

Aquamarine : “Agreed on all, thetaclear. This is such a wrong target. If Scientology would just concentrate on clearing people, on caring for the beings in front of them, one at a time, they’d be in much better shape on all dynamics. If they would only focus on creating instead of destroying…ah, me. . If if if.”

Peter : You are SO right about that , Aquamarine. LRH was always after wong targets :

1. “Clear the planet” which presupposed all of Earth’s population agreeing with Scn , and accepting it as their only “Route to spiritual salvation”. A misguided and silly proposition. Scn would have grown just fine based on books , and on teaching others co-audited techniques and do-it-yourself techniques. And all done in small INDEPENDENT centers which needed no more than 8-10 individuals to run them. 2-3 Sups, 1 W/Cer , 1-2 co-audit Sups , 1 receptionist , 1 dissemination/promotion terminal , 1 Reg/sales terminal, and 1 ED/Manager.

8 terminals could easily handle 20-25 bodies in the shop. Charging just $1,200 per level of training (TRs , class 0-V = 7 levels) that would be $8,400 to be able to go from Objectives to NED as a co-audit activity. Finishing at least one level per month (perfectly doable if not requiring having the god-damned perfection of a class 8 ) , that would bring in enough money to cover rent , utilities , and to pay the staff a decent salary of more than the federal minimum. NO Church status AT ALL needed. No “Clearing the planet” bullshit. Just a “learn to help yourself and others” proposition.

2. “Attack the dissenters and critics”. Wrong target. Right target : accept the ones that agree ; leave alone the ones that don’t , and welcome them back if they ever change their mind. Accept and confront ALL criticism.

3. “Attack and destroy psychiatry”. Wrong target. Right target : help them out ; teach them better ways. Reform the profession.

4. “Squirreling = ‘bad’ thing to attack”. Wrong target. Right target : Learn it as EXACTLY written first , apply it as exactly written while on training and while co-auditing under the center’s responsibility. But after finishing your training do what you wish with it , just DON’T call it Scn if you alter it , but call it something else or “based on the works of LRH”. One doesn’t expect an individual who learned Taekwondo to alter-is it , and sell its teaching of it as “Taekwondo” but as a different version of a martial art. He is expected to learn it , and to practice it as EXACTLY taught while he is on his training. After he is ALREADY done with his training (a black belt) , then he can modify it as he see fit , BUT he must call it something else then to not misrepresent the trademark dishonestly REGARDLESS if his modified version is even better than the original.

5. “Clear and Operating Thetan”. Wrong unattainable target. Right target : a greatly improved human being. An individual who can control his life.

And Scn would have flourished and prospered just fine , and LRH would have been remembered as a genius psychotherapist. And he would have earned royalties for his books and training manuals , and even royalties (let’s say 5% ? , 10 ? of all sales ) for the use of his method by official training centers. And he would have made good money w/out doing a bloody thing , while keeping himself busy with fiction books.

Todd : “Hi Peter: First of all, thank you for your heart-felt response.”

Peter : You are most welcome.

Todd : “I know that heated arguments can break out all too easily–even about simple little terms, such as “competition.” I respect you for no to giving in to that temptation. That in itself separates you by a mile from scientology fundamentalists!”

Peter : Thanks ; I respect you as well for your well balanced reply. And yeah , I know quite well what you mean by fundamentalists Scientologists ; I am not in that category for sure. In fact , I don’t consider myself a Scientologist since quite some time ago , even though that I use a lot from Scn in my daily life. But believing is some of the principles of Christianity doesn’t make one a Christian , does it ?

Todd : “And I certainly want to give you a response worthy of your post.”

Peter : Thanks ; I appreciate it.

Todd : “I think one problem common to these kinds of discussions is false dichotomies. It has to be EITHER “psychs” OR scientology. For example, people who find value in scientology are often understood to be “Miscavige sheep;” people who feel that “church” practices are exploitative somehow become “psych shills”–no matter how they truly feel about psychiatry.”

Peter : Yeah, I know what you mean. For me personally , I get involved in whatever works ; be it Scn , hypnotherapy, some aspects of psychology , Yoga , Meditation , etc, etc. Psychiatry as practiced today, is not in my list of workable therapies based on my OWN research totally independent of LRH’s opinion.

Todd : “The truth about the efficacy of either approach really could only be evaluated by comparing people who have either partaken in both methods or by comparison of groups availing themselves of either method.”

Peter : I fully agree with that.

Todd : “Depression is a good example. Many years ago (about 20), I went on anti-depressants with the help of a psychiatrist. This whole period lasted only about 6 months until I unilaterally decided to ditch the drugs cold turkey (a very bad idea, btw). I haven’ t felt like availing myself of psych drugs since, and have never done so.”

Peter : I am glad that you got better.

Todd : “I will admit that partaking in this treatment created a placebo effect (i.e. it produced a beneficial effect long before the drugs realistically kicked in). I had some side-effects, but nothing too disturbing.”

Peter : I am glad that the side effects were nothing disturbing. However , I can’t say that about thousands of individuals that DID experienced heavy side effects , including deadly ones. I mean , read the PDR , and just check out the list of side effects that most psych drugs have. Just do it , and see it for yourself. Those sides effects includes “homicidal and suicidal tendencies” , for Christ sakes! Why , in the name of God , would anyone want to drug himself with so potentially dangerous substances instead of looking for alternative therapies which have been known to work quite well ? This is silly in the extreme. Sorry , but I can’t call that being wise , if the individual in question has researched all about the psych drugs , and has available to him other alternatives.

Forget about what LRH did said or not about it ; to hell with LRH! Do your OWN research on the topic as I did for close to a hundred hours , or even more. The sources are available online by the ton ; medical sources. Just take a look at this sources unbiasedly and objectively , and arrive at your own conclusions :

http://www.antipsychiatry.org/

http://www.oikos.org/antipsicen.htm

http://www.icspp.org/

Todd : “Ultimately, what helped me was to make some life-style changes as well as talk therapy with a psychologist. Eventually, I outgrew her as well and went on my much merrier way .”

Peter : Good! , I am glad it helped you. You’ll find that changing from lifestyle (which include changing from environment) , change in diets , and having a good therapists that can really listen (just listen and acknowledge) , can do 100x more than any psych drug.

Todd : “At the same time, I know several people whose lives have been saved (as far as they are concerned) by psych drugs.”

Peter : And I know of dozens of cases (personally know , including members of my family) who were severely injured by psychiatric drugs and treatments , including inhumane treatments while being unwillingly institutionalized. And the number of abused cases by psychiatrists are the highest at the mental health professions. Sorry Todd , you are not going to convince a guy like me of the “benefits” of psychiatry ; you won’t.

Todd : “Some people who swear by anti-depressants as at least a temporary solution that got them well enough to take other measures (similar to me), others who chose to take these drugs longer term.”

Peter : Well , they got lucky. But that’s like playing the roulette ; you can live , but you can also die.

Todd : “However, I have also known a bunch of people with severe mental disorders (paranoid schizophrenia, severe anxiety, and bipolar disorder) whose lives would plain and simply spin out of control if they did not take their meds.”

Peter : Yeah , that might be the case , but did they try alternative natural remedies and other therapies like psychoanalysis or hypnotherapy ?

Todd : “To categorize people as “psych shills” (I realize you have done NO such thing) is about as absurd as calling people “oncology lovers.”

Peter : I FULLY agree with that. I am about really helping others , not about categorizing them. As long as people FULLY research any method of psychotherapy BEFORE engaging in it , I am fine with whatever they choose. But anyone FULLY researching psychiatry can’t possibly decide to engage in drug therapy or invasive treatments like electroshocks or lobotomies. Something would be severely wrong with them if they do after fully researching the subject , and more so with the dozens of alternative and workable methods available today.

Todd : “It appears that in some cases even highly unpleasant and risky medical treatments are inevitable–even if they entail unpleasant or even harmful side effects. Such is the state of medical (incl. psychiatric) science.”

Peter : Sorry but I disagree with that assertion 500% . Not a fact AT ALL. There are always other alternatives available for the ones who really care to look for them. Not finding them is just being plain apathetic about it and mentally lazy.

Todd : “I personally find the practice of the 12 Steps highly beneficial ( whether a person is a substance abuser or not). ”

Peter : “12 steps” looks perfectly fine to me , and I LOVE the work that Alcoholic Anonymous do ; my hat off to them.

Todd : “Just like scientology, they are undoubtedly an “amateur production.” They are the product of a highly imperfect human being (although in no way comparable to a parasite like LRH). And they certainly would qualify as a “philosophy,” and qualify as a somewhat mystical system. Fortunately, they come with none of the cultic and exploitative baggage that scientology does.”

Peter : If you are referring to the guys at Alcoholic Anonymous , Yes ,they are great guys indeed ; DEFINITIVELY not a cult.

Todd : “Having said that, I am very sympathetic to a person adopting a practical philosophy. In fact, it appears that doing “something, anything” is beneficial and empowering.’

Peter : Yes , it is indeed!

Todd : “How much does the “method” matter? How much of it is a “placebo effect?” How “scientific” does it have to be? Does it even matter? Frankly, I don’t know.”

Peter : I don’t think it really matter. If one got helped by something (w/out damaging our bodies or damaging others) , then that’s all that really matters to me. Nothing else does.

Todd : “What I do know is that I draw the line when any of these methods lead to exploitation and cultism.”

Peter : So do I. That’s why I have always wanted to reform Scn , to rid it of its cultic aspects , which are just too damn many.

Todd : “When people are deliberately brought into dependency–particularly by a cult of personality, or worse, an exploiter and abuser such as LRH. But then again, judging by your response, we are in agreement on that point.”

Peter : Yes , we fully agree on that point. Scn DOES have many destructive aspects. But it also has many , many workable and highly effective methods of psychotherapy that are worth saving from my perspective. Those workable parts are superior – from my perspective – than most psychotherapies that I have practiced and/or studied. Far superior based on my own application of it with hundreds of cases over a period of a few decades.

Todd : “For whatever this is worth and whatever this may add up to (or not), I feel that you deserved a heart-felt and sensible response. Thanks for letting me in on your viewpoint.”

Peter : You are most welcome and thank YOU for having taking the time to write such a wise and balanced reply.

Todd : “Peace and my best wishes!”

Peter : Same to you , my friend.

Best ,
Peter Torres