Ken Kramer is at it again.
As usual, he is begging for money, even though the IAS claim THEY are the ones “eradicating psychiatry.” Just like they are the ones bringing “human rights” and “literacy campaigns” (see recent post on GoFundMe page for those campaigns).
Here are a couple of recent emails from Mr. Kramer.
From: PsychSearch <records@PsychSearch.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2016 3:35 AM
To:
Subject: You say you want a revolution
You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world… (Beatles – Revolution Lyrics)
Dear Sir or Madam,
I really need you to take a hard look at this.
You’ve heard us harp on this: States take no action until they receive a complaint on a psychiatrist. They’re just not out on the prowl looking for action! They’re just not. Therefore, complaints need to be filed.
We are having TREMENDOUS success getting complaints filed on psychiatrists.
TREMENDOUS!
Why? It’s so simple. Patients fill out this online form http://www.psychsearch.net/complaints, select their state, press “submit” and voila!, the complaint is sent electronically straight to the state licensing agency for that psych. No Delays. No Vias. No BS. Ka-Blam!
Now, this is why I ask you to take a hard look at this.
In order to get 100,000 complaints filed on USA psychiatrists this form needs to be blown out to the entire world wide web. (There are approx. 50,000 USA psychiatrists – 2 complaints each should cause a sizeable effect!)
You get an idea or two on how to simply blow that complaint form link out on the internet, e.g. your websites, blogs, Facebook, e-mails, Google Ads, Facebook ads, etc. and then watch what happens! It’s so easy! I see the workability of this approach. Every day. So, I know.
Have fun and enjoy yourself knowing that you are creating a BIG EFFECT. If you don’t do it, watch what will happen on complaints – not as much! That’s up to you.
Seriously. If you have not the time or inclination, you can finance our effort to promote the complaint form broadly.
Best Regards,
Ken Kramer
PsychSearch.net
Make this psychiatrist complaint form well-known: http://www.psychsearch.net/complaints/
“It is a simple and deadly formula. Less steps than baking a cake.”
Seriously, if this is scientology’s “effective campaign” to “eradicate” psychiatry, it is on a par with their progress in “clearing the planet.”
Total delusion.
It is amusing to see in so many public utterances how much the vulture culture of scientology has encompassed every part of the activities of scientologists. Today, NOTHING gets done without “fundraising” and every statement about WHAT is being done is increasingly provably untrue. But they carry on, convincing one another they are “changing the world.”
I love that all his URLs start tinyurl – ?
Also Scientolgy, it’s “fewer steps…” Ain’t they got no grammar nazis on staff?
Such a wrong target, Mr. Kramer. How will Scientology benefit if you take down psychiatry? Who will deal with the truly insane? With, for example, the severely schizophrenic who look down at their dinner plates and see spiders crawling all over it? People with these kinds of severe problems which make them want to harm themselves or others? Without drugs for these very unfortunate people, what do we do, go back to chaining them to the walls so that they don’t hurt others or themselves. There ARE people like this. What is Scientology’s plan for them? You’re an idiot, Mr. Kramer.
What is scientology’s plan for them ?
Why, if I rely on what they have done so far, it’s either keep them in a small room without any human contact until they die of dehydration or let them kill themselves and those who happen to cross their path to then deny they were ever involved in scientology.
According to the “scriptures” of L. Ron, they are below 2 on the tone scale and should be disposed of without sorrow. Keeping them in a room of the fort Harrison until they die of dehydration takes too long and is no good for stats. L. Ron praised a Venezuelan dictator who got rid of leprosy by dumping the beggars affected with this disease into the sea.
The thing that’s most telling in this whole thing about how far Scientologists have their heads rectally engulfed is that they imagine there’s vast numbers of actual patients of psychiatrists who are so dissatisfied they’re going to file complaints. That’s just not the situation. Truth be told, psychiatry patients are voluntarily seeking help. Most are receiving help. Most, if they’re getting medication, really appreciate the salutary effects. The ones unfortunately not making progress are still not blaming their doctors for corruption or malfeasance or evil intent.
I’ve noted over many decades that the world changes every single day, no matter my involvement in it doing so. But I *can* make a difference by doing something as simple as commenting on a new hair do that one of my favourite clerks at Publix is now wearing. By saying something which makes another smile or laugh. The world has changed significantly at that moment. It doesn’t take $100 to do such things. Giving money to some group, especially one which claims to be “the experts”, rarely changes anything. More often, the money is being wasted for frivolous things such a John Lobb shoes, many pairs. Or McCallan scotch whisky. Or even a 10% commission given to the person who emotionally extorted the $100 from you.
Change the world by being kind to another. It’s actually effortless. And if you *do* want to contribute money, make sure the money is actually being spent for the effort you wish to support. There is a HUGE difference between a dollar given to the Salvation Army and the same dollar given to the Red Cross. You can check out the best and worst of the supposed charities in the US @ charitywatch.org. They’re very good and follow all the charities closely. (Scio is not listed, in case you were curious. )
OH MY GOD! Really? You guys are gonna take down psychiatry by reporting abuse? Scientology is so far out of step with modern culture that they rely on impossible goals with impossible and unworkable methods developed (invented) by a guy who died 30 years ago.
Since leaving the cult 30 years ago I have heard of NO abuse by psychs, not once. On the other hand, I have first hand knowledge of about 10 instances of real help. I also know of 4 instances of no help or fake help at the hands of psychiatry.
The RonBots are following the orders of a guy who died 30 years ago. And that guy was so warped and shallow in his comprehension of the world of psychiatry that he was incapable of developing a sane or balanced or objective view of the psych field.
The Scientology “war on psychiatry” is weird and mis-directed and thoroughly ineffective yet the Scientologists keep bragging about winning.
This “war” is more proof that Hubbard was nuts and that those of us who were in gave up thinking for ourselves.
War???? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
The church’s stance on Psychiatry is so flawed I don’t know where to start. I’ve always held this view – even while in. Never mind that wildly railing against anything creates ridges and makes it more solid (duh), what do they propose as a solution for all the patients/people suffering from mental illness once they’ve wiped out the Psychs?
No Psych case can be helped with SCN processing and very few (if any) of them would be capable of doing any study of the subject anyway (not that this would help in any event). This is per the church’s own stance on the matter (illegal PC policy).
So who is going to man the Psych wards & hospitals and who is going to take responsibility for helping/treating or healing these people? When all the Psychs are gone do they plan on just unleashing these sick folk back into society? How about the criminally insane – what do they propose for them?
How come they haven’t come forward with a workable solution to reform the field of mental health as opposed to their scorched earth policy of wiping all Psychs out? Why aren’t they running a “prevent mental illness” or “reform Psychiatry” program instead (let me guess – they don’t have one – let alone the resources to run one).
Just imagine the church trying to run this like their anti-drug program. Pamphlets of how to avoid Psychs and mental illness (yeah right), and for those who do go down that road, they can open up Psychanon for recovery. Heaven help us.
Thank God they’re so bloody ineffective – otherwise we’d have a real mess on our hands.
Just a question to anyone that can speculate
Would Cob campaign to persuade Scientologists to go out and Vote for Trump now that he wants to envoke Libel laws?
Hi Valhalkarie, Good to meet you. Saw your question today I do not know how any voting stuff works for Sea Org and staff now.Back in ancient days 74-78 in Sea Org Asho Fdn voting never occurred to us. The big push for me was to always be On Source.Always,Ann.
There are 50,000 psychiatrists in the US. There are also about 15,000 to 25,000 scientologists in the US. To reach Kramer’s goal, every scientologist–man, woman and child–would have to fill out 4 to 7 reports on psychiatrists that they have never met in the first place. Are they REALLY hoping that no one will notice such a campaign orchestrated by professional whiners and liars?
A more hopeful campaign would be to suggest that there are 6 million Americans, or more, who have watched “Going Clear.” Now all it would take is .25% to .4% of these to file just one complaint against just one scientologist (whom they don’t even know) with a government agency–any agency will do–casting aspersions on this individual.
One could complain that they are cheating on their taxes, subject their children to “religious” brain washing, engage in domestic violence, abuse their pets, encourage bigotry, have sex for money, have been promiscuous 40 years ago, cheat their customers, divert business funds to a “religious” entity, or that their eyes are lingering a bit too long on the neighborhood playground. The beauty of these claims is that they have all been tested by scientologist operatives already and found to be quite effective in bringing unwanted government attention and ruining reputations.
Wouldn’t THAT be some bigoted fun for the whole family!
Oh, the delicious irony of it. As Kramer lectures the sheeple: “Documents are powerful. Public records are the backbone of newspaper stories. Attorneys can use them as evidence in courts. Legislators are influenced by them. The public can be warned with them.”
Documents are also the reason why scientologists are NOT allowed to freely imbibe information on the internet, or do something as innocuous as searching google or youtube for terms such as “scientology” or “LRH.” Or, Xenu forbid, watch “documentaries.”
Or why scientologists are forced to disconnect from those who have freely perused documents.
I’m with Kramer! Bring on the documents! Show them to newspapers, attorneys, legislators and especially the public!
Is it only me, or is there a fundamental flaw in this strategy?
Scientologists, by definition, are not allowed to patronize psychiatrists or psychologists. So how are they supposed to write knowledgeable, truthful, “ethical” reports on professionals that they never get to meet in the first place?
This is the definition of ALL prejudice and bigotry: Uninformedly railing against a group of people that you don’t even know, and make it a point never to meet!
They’d be more credible if they were to wage a war against grocers or plumbers!
He’s asking for help in promoting the site, not for scientologists to actually file the complaints themselves.
To quote Kramer: “Have FUN and ENJOY yourself [emphases mine] knowing that you are creating a big effect.”
This is yet another reason why scientologists may want to ask themselves whether this is REALLY what they signed up for when they envisioned a “world free of insanity!”
Undoubtedly, there are occasions when an individual has cause to file a complaint about a professional or an organization. An organization abusing its tax exemption and “religious” status, for example. Or a private investigator terrorizing an entire neighborhood and spreading slanderous information. Or an attorney sending unsubstantiated threat letters to individuals who have requested that all correspondences would be addressed to their attorneys.
But how TWISTED does a person have to get to ENJOY wasting the tax payers’ money and their own time on frivolous and dishonest reports. The only “effect” this will have is that the authorities will come to rightfully classify this as another case of the scientologist crying wolf.
Railing against the “competition” NEVER gives a gainly impression of one’s product. If scientology has created a credible alternative to psychiatry, they would be well advised to prove that to the world instead of reactionary and pointless campaigns.
Todd : “Railing against the “competition” NEVER gives a gainly impression of one’s product. If scientology has created a credible alternative to psychiatry, they would be well advised to prove that to the world instead of reactionary and pointless campaigns.”
Running a L4B and a L1C on a severely depressed individual , would be more than enough to prove Scientology’s incredible superiority to psychiatry. Putting Scn in the same comparable magnitude as psychiatry is to not know Scn at all. Only an untrained individual who has never audited would doubt that. And by the way , I am not a Scientologists , I only use what works. And LRH is not the saint of my devotion neither. In fact , I criticize him a lot more than I validate his “good” traits and/or works. No Todd ; I assure you that no Scientologist would ever think (including LRH) that psychiatry is or was ever a “competition” to Scn. They would laugh about such an assertion ; even a trained Ex-Scientologist would laugh at such an assertion.
Just ANY, but almost ANY process from Scn is by far, more superior than ALL of psychiatry. Just ONE process like L1C is. “Railing against the ‘competition’ ?” ; No , It was never about that , I am afraid ; it was about cultism , power , and making money. About “competition” ? No, it wasn’t , as psychiatry was never it.
OK, so you take exception at the term “competition.” If you can suggest a better one, I’d be happy to consider it.
Hubbard claimed that he–dilettante that he was–had created a “tech” that would in effect make psychiatry obsolete. Allegedly, it would produce equivalent or better results with less time and money required to be invested. In fact, it would produce results that far exceeded anything that psychiatry would be able (or claimed) to accomplish. So, sure, in Hubbard’s mind (and the few who believed his claims), his “tech” would not just compete with psychiatry; it would supplant it. The critical qualification here being “in Hubbard’s mind.”
These claims have NEVER been substantiated. Not by Hubbard as part of his alleged original “research,” let alone by third parties. ANYTHING masquerading as “tech” or “science” must be, by definition, verifiable.
Unsurprisingly, Hubbard refashioned his “tech” (or the “science” of a guy who could not even manage to pass an introductory science class) into a “religion.” With that disclaimer, ANYTHING can be claimed by way of subjective, even coerced, “success stories”–despite the complete absence of any evidence whatsoever.
Whether a person approves of it or not, the automobile has replaced the horse buggy. There is objective evidence that the former is far superior to the latter. Subjective “success stories” are immaterial. And there is no “competition” between the two. Car manufacturers find it unnecessary to poo poo buggies in order to make a sale. Once again, because there is no “competition.”
Such is clearly NOT the case when it comes to medical science and scientology “tech.” Both continue side by side, offering at least to some extent remedies to the same problems (such as depression, to use your example). And it’s patently obvious that scientology as a “competition” to psychiatry is losing ground to the point where its extinction is a distinct possibility. (I am not saying it will entirely go away in the next few years; but if the current trend continues, it would not be a huge surprise if indeed it did).
Do you ever wonder WHY scientology finds it necessary to heavy-handedly and indiscriminately attack psychiatry–often with the aid of ludicrous “facts?” Yet, psychiatry seems to lose no sleep over a fairly minor also-ran cult?
Once again, “competition” is the best term that I can think of for this situation. But I am open to using a better one, if you would like to suggest it.
Thanks for the reply, Todd. I feel that you missed my point. I agree with most of your assertions on this reply of yours. But Scn is not disappearing because it can’t produce results much better than many of today’s psychotherapies , as it have been my experience, with thousands of hours of application, that it CAN and does. Scn is disappearing as LRH – mixed with all the good and workable – created a bunch (perhaps no more than 20-30) suppressive policies and rules , including KSW #1 , the Scn Ethics Codes , Disconnection , Fair Game , Attacking the critics and dissenters , among the most destructive ones. But most of the Tech at the 0-V level (from “raw meat” as Scientologists call it, up to “Clear” ) does works quite well even if never to the degree advertised ; but workable enough to use it w/out any harm towards the individual, but only varying degrees of wins and changes.
Todd, I’ve helped hundreds of individuals to lead happier, more productive lives with just VERY simple Scn processes. But I never did it in a robotic way always doing them as “exactly written”. I always did them with full understanding of them, and modifying them as I saw fit in the situation using proper judgment and discernment. And I can tell you with 100% certainty Todd, that a simple L4B and L1C done by someone who really know how to use his wits , and who really care for his PCs, can handle a severe chronic depression under 12 hours. I’ve done that many, many times , even with 100% non-Scientologists.
Personally speaking , I was going through a VERY SEVERE depression these past weeks (1-2 months) . So severe , that I even thought in the possibility of getting myself committed to a mental (not psychiatric) hospital as I feared what I might do to my body. To give you a datum of comparable magnitude (but nobody died) , think of someone you love more than your own life, and think then of suddenly losing that person through a sudden death. Think as well in the situation that you had had a heated argument with that loved one just before he/she passed away, so you didn’t even have the chance to say “I am sorry” and to say good-bye. Now, multiply that times 5-10x , and you would have what I was feeling. Even though that I had effectively helped dozens of individuals in similar situations as an auditor, this time I thought that I was beyond help. I just couldn’t see how so much pain could possibly go away.
So I basically said , “Fuck it , I can do an L1C by myself, unmetered as I don’t have one now , and just hope that at least I can learn to live with the pain , at least” . So I ran it unmetered in myself. Item 1 (Out-list) “read” , so I switched to an L4B (which handles List errors in auditing or in life). I ran the L4B taking each item at a time, done Method 6 , class XII style bypassing the bank. I handled each out-list, reconstructed old lists, and did all handlings called for by the L4B. I then kept on circling again through the list handling every “reading” item in turn till I felt “F/Ning” in the whole list when calling off each item. I then re-took the L1C with the proper preface , and began to run it as well. By its 6-7 item , all that incredible BPC had already been gone. I no longer felt that IMMENSE depression that I was feeling. I no longer had that severe “Out Of” feeling I had (clear “Out-of” in the Tech dic ; it feels much worse than the “Sad Effect”. It is a mixture of LONG unhandled Sad effects with Out-lists and Out-int).
Todd , I still can’t believe that I no longer feel like that. I felt like dying as a being. I had lost ALL interest in life. And I handled it UNDER 12 hours of UNMETERED Solo-style processing and two correction lists. No drugs needed, no large sums paid to no psychotherapist, no electroshocks, no institutionalization for months required. 2 simple lists, Todd, and less than 12 hours. So I am really sorry if I can’t possibly equate Scn’s Tech to psychiatry. I am a doer, I am not a dilettante. I apply what I learn to life, and fuck LRH or anyone else with bullshit “Standard Rigid Tech”.
I think that my story answers by itself our disagreement with using the word “competition”. But if you are not trained yourself, and don’t have thousands of hours of application as I have, then how can you possibly understand and have any reality of my viewpoints on this ? You just can’t, I am afraid.
My point wasn’t that Scn is perfect ; it ISN’T, and it possesses many, many destructive parts. LRH committed just TOO many stupidities , and even criminal acts. But Scn ALSO possesses MANY, MANY very useful and workable stuff that should never get lost. THAT would also be a crime, as it is VERY stupid from my perspective , to throw away something that can do a LOT of good to others , IF correctly applied with good judgment, proper discernment , and free from strict dogmas and authoritarianism.
Call me a fanatic if you want ; call me a Scientologists if that makes anyone happy (I am just an Applied philosopher , a REAL one) ; but I am just not going to throw the baby out with the bath water just because LRH was also a BIG asshole motherfucker greedy man. I am just not going to throw away something that can SAVE lives if applied by non cultic individuals who really care for the welfare of others. I am such individual, and so there exist many like me out there. And I just KNOW with 100% CERTAINTY as God is my witness , that I can handle most mental disorders in a LOT less time ( 1/20th or less) than any existing psychotherapy. And I don’t even charge for it ; never did.
So I can’t possible care about no “competition”. I could never brought myself to charge for what I’ve done for others. It just never felt right. And that’s why why I don’t work as an auditor as I would just starve to death. So I mostly do Solo(ing) in my free time. But I will never pass the opportunity to offer to others my accumulated knowledge and set of successful actions, which are MANY, and most of them based on Scn’s tech.
So there you have it, Todd. Make of all that what you want. By the way, I’ve studied most of the existing psychotherapies (including their rate of success) as a self-taught endeavor and research. I am not one of those robotic KSW followers. Never was even when I was still in almost 15 years ago.
Best ,
Peter Torres
placebo
[pluh-SEE-boh]
noun, plural placebos, placeboes.
Medicine/Medical, Pharmacology.
– a substance having no pharmacological effect but given merely to satisfy a patient who supposes it to be a medicine.
Just sayin’, TC. Just sayin’.
Thank you!
It’s great you feel that helped you out Peter, but it just would not stand up with in any real controlled setting.
” Thank you! It’s great you feel that helped you out Peter, but it just would not stand up with in any real controlled setting.”
Using that “analysis” of yours , Frosis73 , ABSOLUTELY NO psychotherapy remedy is performed in any “controlled” setting as their healing capacity is mostly based on ANECDOTAL evidence .
The results I had with that specific processing – the L4B and L1C lists – hundreds if not thousands of individuals have also obtained them. With me being a witness (not that somebody told me that somebody ….. ) , I’ve seen DOZENS of individuals get healed from the “Sad Effect” (depression) using those lists , but not using other Scn remedies. I would say that that was a controlled enough setting. We are not measuring physical objective changes here as in physical healing where you can measure several physical quantities. How can you possibly “measure” , “I am feeling better” , or “I no longer feel depressed” , or “I feel happier with life” ? You CAN’T. The only way to “prove” the effectiveness of any psychotherapy is by having enough individuals to attest to its workability or lack thereof according to their OWN experiences from their OWN perspective, not from the perspective of the therapist.
As to the “Plcebo Effect” , that frequently requires a high level of expectancy, motivation and faith in the remedy. In my case, I had none when I started the Correction Lists . Perhaps some minor hope that the pain would not be so much, but nothing more. So both your analysis and Espiando’s are faulty in the extreme.
” placebo [pluh-SEE-boh]
noun, plural placebos, placeboes.
Medicine/Medical, Pharmacology. – a substance having no pharmacological effect but given me rely to satisfy a patient who supposes it to be a medicine.
Just sayin’, TC. Just sayin’.”
Well Espiando , I could say the same about the alleged “benefits” that you are getting from those psych drugs you love so much : Placebo Effect, just sayin’, just sayin’. 😉
Thank you Peter, what you say is so true. It blows also my charge as it reflects so much my viewpoint. Scientologists, most of them are “out of”. Too much BPC can put you to oblivion and death. I myself need to get out of it, and nothing else but the tech can do it.
I have also been auditing many people. For exemple, I was running a life repair on a woman. She was looking for a psychotherapy, did some but was not satisfied, and found a little misson where I was auditing (40 years ago, I was in my twenties). I did two way comm on subject of her life which might interest her and I took reading aera to prepcheck. God this prepcheck was incredible the TA was blowdowning. At the end of the session we were both a bit exhausted. The next day she came. She sat in front of me and said, “It’s so incredible, I wake up this morning… and I felt life was again on me…” and she was crying… of joy. It was so wonderful to look at.
Hubbard says that people are ARC broken with life, and I tell you when you handle that you have done so much more than most of psychotherapy.
I also remember an LIC done all over again and again on a woman whose husband or boy friend left her. She was so uspet. She could have been upset for a long time, but we handled all the by past charge.
And so many exemples.
I share the hope of Theta Clear that this subject will never fall into oblivion, survive the Church, Miscavige and the Haters, and will find his right place in the humanities.
FG : “Thank you Peter, what you say is so true. It blows also my charge as it reflects so much my viewpoint.”
Peter : You are most welcome , FG ; I am glad that it helps.
FG : “Scientologists, most of them are “out of”. Too much BPC can put you to oblivion and death.”
Peter : Tell me about it !!! ; there are states quite beyond death which I have had the “privilege” of experiencing. Not good states at all !!!
FG : “I myself need to get out of it, and nothing else but the tech can do it.”
Peter : Just grab your e-meter , and run some list Solo style. You can do it , I assure you. C/S-53 covers it all.
FG : “I have also been auditing many people. For example, I was running a life repair on a woman. She was looking for a psychotherapy, did some but was not satisfied, and found a little mission where I was auditing (40 years ago, I was in my twenties). I did two way comm on subject of her life which might interest her and I took reading area to prepcheck. God this prepcheck was incredible the TA was blowdowning. At the end of the session we were both a bit exhausted. The next day she came. She sat in front of me and said, “It’s so incredible, I wake up this morning… and I felt life was again on me…” and she was crying… of joy. It was so wonderful to look at.”
Peter : That was a great job indeed! I love Prepchecks ; they are one of the best Repair tools together with 2WC. And so easy to do indeed.
FG : “Hubbard says that people are ARC broken with life, and I tell you when you handle that you have done so much more than most of psychotherapy.”
Peter : Yes , indeed one have.
FG : “I also remember an LIC done all over again and again on a woman whose husband or boy friend left her. She was so upset. She could have been upset for a long time, but we handled all the by past charge. And so many examples.”
Peter : Good work. L1Cs can handle so much if done properly by auditors no so robotic to “standard Tech”. You are DEFINITIVELY not one of those.
FG : “I share the hope of Theta Clear that this subject will never fall into oblivion, survive the Church, Miscavige and the Haters, and will find his right place in the humanities.”
Peter : It will , my friend , it will.
Hi Peter: First of all, thank you for your heart-felt response. I know that heated arguments can break out all too easily–even about simple little terms, such as “competition.” I respect you for no to giving in to that temptation. That in itself separates you by a mile from scientology fundamentalists! And I certainly want to give you a response worthy of your post.
I think one problem common to these kinds of discussions is false dichotomies. It has to be EITHER “psychs” OR scientology. For example, people who find value in scientology are often understood to be “Miscavige sheep;” people who feel that “church” practices are exploitative somehow become “psych shills”–no matter how they truly feel about psychiatry.
The truth about the efficacy of either approach really could only be evaluated by comparing people who have either partaken in both methods or by comparison of groups availing themselves of either method.
Depression is a good example. Many years ago (about 20), I went on anti-depressants with the help of a psychiatrist. This whole period lasted only about 6 months until I unilaterally decided to ditch the drugs cold turkey (a very bad idea, btw). I haven’t felt like availing myself of psych drugs since, and have never done so.
I will admit that partaking in this treatment created a placebo effect (i.e. it produced a beneficial effect long before the drugs realistically kicked in). I had some side-effects, but nothing too disturbing. Ultimately, what helped me was to make some life-style changes as well as talk therapy with a psychologist. Eventually, I outgrew her as well and went on my much merrier way.
At the same time, I know several people whose lives have been saved (as far as they are concerned) by psych drugs. Some people who swear by anti-depressants as at least a temporary solution that got them well enough to take other measures (similar to me), others who chose to take these drugs longer term. However, I have also known a bunch of people with severe mental disorders (paranoid schizophrenia, severe anxiety, and bipolar disorder) whose lives would plain and simply spin out of control if they did not take their meds.
To categorize people as “psych shills” (I realize you have done NO such thing) is about as absurd as calling people “oncology lovers.” It appears that in some cases even highly unpleasant and risky medical treatments are inevitable–even if they entail unpleasant or even harmful side effects. Such is the state of medical (incl. psychiatric) science.
I personally find the practice of the 12 Steps highly beneficial (whether a person is a substance abuser or not). Just like scientology, they are undoubtedly an “amateur production.” They are the product of a highly imperfect human being (although in no way comparable to a parasite like LRH). And they certainly would qualify as a “philosophy,” and qualify as a somewhat mystical system. Fortunately, they come with none of the cultic and exploitative baggage that scientology does.
Having said that, I am very sympathetic to a person adopting a practical philosophy. In fact, it appears that doing “something, anything” is beneficial and empowering.
How much does the “method” matter? How much of it is a “placebo effect?” How “scientific” does it have to be? Does it even matter? Frankly, I don’t know.
What I do know is that I draw the line when any of these methods lead to exploitation and cultism. When people are deliberately brought into dependency–particularly by a cult of personality, or worse, an exploiter and abuser such as LRH. But then again, judging by your response, we are in agreement on that point.
For whatever this is worth and whatever this may add up to (or not), I feel that you deserved a heart-felt and sensible response. Thanks for letting me in on your viewpoint.
Peace and my best wishes!
Todd : “Hi Peter: First of all, thank you for your heart-felt response.”
Peter : You are most welcome.
Todd : “I know that heated arguments can break out all too easily–even about simple little terms, such as “competition.” I respect you for no to giving in to that temptation. That in itself separates you by a mile from scientology fundamentalists!”
Peter : Thanks ; I respect you as well for your well balanced reply. And yeah , I know quite well what you mean by fundamentalists Scientologists ; I am not in that category for sure. In fact , I don’t consider myself a Scientologist since quite some time ago , even though that I use a lot from Scn in my daily life. But believing is some of the principles of Christianity doesn’t make one a Christian , does it ?
Todd : “And I certainly want to give you a response worthy of your post.”
Peter : Thanks ; I appreciate it.
Todd : “I think one problem common to these kinds of discussions is false dichotomies. It has to be EITHER “psychs” OR scientology. For example, people who find value in scientology are often understood to be “Miscavige sheep;” people who feel that “church” practices are exploitative somehow become “psych shills”–no matter how they truly feel about psychiatry.”
Peter : Yeah, I know what you mean. For me personally , I get involved in whatever works ; be it Scn , hypnotherapy, some aspects of psychology , Yoga , Meditation , etc, etc. Psychiatry as practiced today, is not in my list of workable therapies based on my OWN research totally independent of LRH’s opinion.
Todd : “The truth about the efficacy of either approach really could only be evaluated by comparing people who have either partaken in both methods or by comparison of groups availing themselves of either method.”
Peter : I fully agree with that.
Todd : “Depression is a good example. Many years ago (about 20), I went on anti-depressants with the help of a psychiatrist. This whole period lasted only about 6 months until I unilaterally decided to ditch the drugs cold turkey (a very bad idea, btw). I haven’ t felt like availing myself of psych drugs since, and have never done so.”
Peter : I am glad that you got better.
Todd : “I will admit that partaking in this treatment created a placebo effect (i.e. it produced a beneficial effect long before the drugs realistically kicked in). I had some side-effects, but nothing too disturbing.”
Peter : I am glad that the side effects were nothing disturbing. However , I can’t say that about thousands of individuals that DID experienced heavy side effects , including deadly ones. I mean , read the PDR , and just check out the list of side effects that most psych drugs have. Just do it , and see it for yourself. Those sides effects includes “homicidal and suicidal tendencies” , for Christ sakes! Why , in the name of God , would anyone want to drug himself with so potentially dangerous substances instead of looking for alternative therapies which have been known to work quite well ? This is silly in the extreme. Sorry , but I can’t call that being wise , if the individual in question has researched all about the psych drugs , and has available to him other alternatives.
Forget about what LRH did said or not about it ; to hell with LRH! Do your OWN research on the topic as I did for close to a hundred hours , or even more. The sources are available online by the ton ; medical sources. Just take a look at this sources unbiasedly and objectively , and arrive at your own conclusions :
http://www.antipsychiatry.org/
http://www.oikos.org/antipsicen.htm
http://www.icspp.org/
Todd : “Ultimately, what helped me was to make some life-style changes as well as talk therapy with a psychologist. Eventually, I outgrew her as well and went on my much merrier way .”
Peter : Good! , I am glad it helped you. You’ll find that changing from lifestyle (which include changing from environment) , change in diets , and having a good therapists that can really listen (just listen and acknowledge) , can do 100x more than any psych drug.
Todd : “At the same time, I know several people whose lives have been saved (as far as they are concerned) by psych drugs.”
Peter : And I know of dozens of cases (personally know , including members of my family) who were severely injured by psychiatric drugs and treatments , including inhumane treatments while being unwillingly institutionalized. And the number of abused cases by psychiatrists are the highest at the mental health professions. Sorry Todd , you are not going to convince a guy like me of the “benefits” of psychiatry ; you won’t.
Todd : “Some people who swear by anti-depressants as at least a temporary solution that got them well enough to take other measures (similar to me), others who chose to take these drugs longer term.”
Peter : Well , they got lucky. But that’s like playing the roulette ; you can live , but you can also die.
Todd : “However, I have also known a bunch of people with severe mental disorders (paranoid schizophrenia, severe anxiety, and bipolar disorder) whose lives would plain and simply spin out of control if they did not take their meds.”
Peter : Yeah , that might be the case , but did they try alternative natural remedies and other therapies like psychoanalysis or hypnotherapy ?
Todd : “To categorize people as “psych shills” (I realize you have done NO such thing) is about as absurd as calling people “oncology lovers.”
Peter : I FULLY agree with that. I am about really helping others , not about categorizing them. As long as people FULLY research any method of psychotherapy BEFORE engaging in it , I am fine with whatever they choose. But anyone FULLY researching psychiatry can’t possibly decide to engage in drug therapy or invasive treatments like electroshocks or lobotomies. Something would be severely wrong with them if they do after fully researching the subject , and more so with the dozens of alternative and workable methods available today.
Todd : “It appears that in some cases even highly unpleasant and risky medical treatments are inevitable–even if they entail unpleasant or even harmful side effects. Such is the state of medical (incl. psychiatric) science.”
Peter : Sorry but I disagree with that assertion 500% . Not a fact AT ALL. There are always other alternatives available for the ones who really care to look for them. Not finding them is just being plain apathetic about it and mentally lazy.
Todd : “I personally find the practice of the 12 Steps highly beneficial ( whether a person is a substance abuser or not). ”
Peter : “12 steps” looks perfectly fine to me , and I LOVE the work that Alcoholic Anonymous do ; my hat off to them.
Todd : “Just like scientology, they are undoubtedly an “amateur production.” They are the product of a highly imperfect human being (although in no way comparable to a parasite like LRH). And they certainly would qualify as a “philosophy,” and qualify as a somewhat mystical system. Fortunately, they come with none of the cultic and exploitative baggage that scientology does.”
Peter : If you are referring to the guys at Alcoholic Anonymous , Yes ,they are great guys indeed ; DEFINITIVELY not a cult.
Todd : “Having said that, I am very sympathetic to a person adopting a practical philosophy. In fact, it appears that doing “something, anything” is beneficial and empowering.’
Peter : Yes , it is indeed!
Todd : “How much does the “method” matter? How much of it is a “placebo effect?” How “scientific” does it have to be? Does it even matter? Frankly, I don’t know.”
Peter : I don’t think it really matter. If one got helped by something (w/out damaging our bodies or damaging others) , then that’s all that really matters to me. Nothing else does.
Todd : “What I do know is that I draw the line when any of these methods lead to exploitation and cultism.”
Peter : So do I. That’s why I have always wanted to reform Scn , to rid it of its cultic aspects , which are just too damn many.
Todd : “When people are deliberately brought into dependency–particularly by a cult of personality, or worse, an exploiter and abuser such as LRH. But then again, judging by your response, we are in agreement on that point.”
Peter : Yes , we fully agree on that point. Scn DOES have many destructive aspects. But it also has many , many workable and highly effective methods of psychotherapy that are worth saving from my perspective. Those workable parts are superior – from my perspective – than most psychotherapies that I have practiced and/or studied. Far superior based on my own application of it with hundreds of cases over a period of a few decades.
Todd : “For whatever this is worth and whatever this may add up to (or not), I feel that you deserved a heart-felt and sensible response. Thanks for letting me in on your viewpoint.”
Peter : You are most welcome and thank YOU for having taking the time to write such a wise and balanced reply.
Todd : “Peace and my best wishes!”
Peter : Same to you , my friend.
Best ,
Peter Torres
I think it’s awesome that the gofundme for Phil Jones’ billboard raised $11,200 in one day and Tim Bowles idiotic page has raised $440 in 6 days.
That’s because Tim Bowles didn’t use the tech…..
L. Ron Hubbard stated “the psychs are the sole cause of decline in this universe” and since he’s ‘Source’ it must be true, right?
Hmmmmm, Gadfly, it appears you took Sarcasm 101 & got an ‘A’ in it. Nicely done.
Leave psychiatry alone, I say. They’ve got a job to do. Let them do it. To say they are evil is a generality. There are good and there are not so good psychiatrists. It’s par for the cours.
It’s only scientologists (and many exes still under the influence) who have this extreme view implanted in them by a sociopath and pathological liar, for heavens sake.
I’m not into downing anyone in general like this. Haven’t we got better things to do like getting another billboard up in the Clearwater and a couple more in LA and around the US. Now, that’s a worthwhile subject to keep us worked up.
Let’s all tweet-bomb @psychsearch on Twitter and make complaints. If all 50,000 psychiatrists do this, maybe COB will send him to The Hole.
12,000,000 members of the world’s fastest growing money machine…oops, religion, and he can’t get .8% (rough guess) to fill in his form?
As usual, Scientology thinks numbers are results. Go ahead, do your 100,000 complaints. You will find (a) vacuous complaints will if anything obscure any actual abuses going on, and (b) getting a Scientology-troll complaint will become a badge of honor — just like an SP declare has become.
The project is doable though. A thousand active Scientologists can easily fabricate or coerce others to fabricate 100 complaints each. Good luck with all that.
Think about it…how many Scnists do you know that know someone who was abused by a psych? Zilch, zip, nada. Any card-carrying member will have nothing to do with damaged goods.
So, basically they are asking their members to spam the shit out of their comm lines.
” In order to get 100,000 complaints filed on USA psychiatrists this form needs to be blown out to the entire world wide web. (There are approx. 50,000 USA psychiatrists – 2 complaints each should cause a sizeable effect!)”
The Churchies’ (Scientologists) inclination to violate the civil and Human Rights of others never cease to amaze me, indeed!!!
Pitiful robots to LRH, using a two-valued “logic” – “White v/s Black” , “Yes v/s No” , “Absolute right v/s Absolute wrong” – to analyze EVERYTHING in their lives through the eyes of LRH.
Now this asshole fanatic KSW robot is arbitrarily deciding that ALL 50,0000 psychiatrists are “perverted criminals” and “wholetrack implanters”. So let’s just “eliminate them all” !!!
I know that a lot of psychiatrists are guilty of numerous Human Rights violations. And yes, Roger , a LOT more frequently than any other profession in human history ; a LOT more. I know that most psychotropic drugs only serve to fuck up your mind even more, and might even kill you. There is AMPLE medical evidence available , so I won’t bother to reply to any misguided haters that frequently post here, and who just LOVE to get into the wagon of “Let’s just destroy all of Scn”. I am not really interested in replying to bs fanaticism of the other extreme of the equation. So I won’t.
Having clarify my viewpoints on that , not ALL psychiatrists are bad people ; not All psychiatrists violate the rights of others ; not ALL psychiatrists medicate as part of their practices ; not ALL psychiatrists believe that mental disorders are caused by “chemical imbalances in the brain” ; not ALL psychiatrists use their profession as a vehicle to “legally” dramatize their perversions and killing instincts , though MANY do. In fact , a LOT of them are against the above conduct , and even testify against their colleagues.
What is the ratio of “bad psychiatrists” against “good psychiatrists” , I have absolutely NO clue about. 10% ? , 15% ? , 30% ? I just DON’T KNOW, and so no fucking Scientologist doesn’t know as well.
Why not just offer a means by which those ACTUALLY having been abused (in any way) by psychiatrists to have a way to demand redress of wrongs , while at the SAME TIME , helping to REFORM the profession by offering an honest help to them ? Now, THAT’S the human thing to do ; the responsible thing to do. All else are just manifestations of authoritarianism and cultism , as is the norm with most Scientologists.
LRH’s definition of a Scientologists : “One who change conditions in life to improve himself and others for the better”.
ACTUAL definition of a Scientologist : “ONE WHO CAN’T THINK FOR HIMSELF”.
Supplementary definition of a Scientologist : “ONE WHO VIOLATES HUMAN RIGHTS IN THE NAME OF ‘FREEDOM’ “.
First of all, this is a product of fundamentalism, so no sense in applying logic. Also, to a Scnist, there is no such thing as a “good psych”. Making an educated guess, I would say the ratio of good psychs to bad psychs is probably the same for any other profession (e.g. medical doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc). But, taking that viewpoint does not bring in the big bucks, so they have to be ALL bad.
It really is pointless to cite inconsistencies (even to their own policy). Scn HAS to have their “Satan”, and they picked the psych.
Statpush : “First of all, this is a product of fundamentalism, so no sense in applying logic.”
Peter : Of course not ; but you’ll be surprised how many Scientologists who are at Doubt regarding LRH/Scn , DO get the message after a while , and can thus , understand logical reasoning.
Statpush : “Also , to a Scnist, there is no such thing as a “good psych”. ”
Peter : I suppose not.
Statpush : “Making an educated guess, I would say the ratio of good psychs to bad psychs is probably the same for any other profession (e.g. medical doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc).”
Peter : I must disagree with that , Statpush. In my educated guess – which are frequently better than most people’s “facts” – this ratio is much higher in the psychiatry profession. I have no official stats to show you , but I am well educated in history, and no, those other professions doesn’t have such a sordid past except perhaps Medicine before the 16-17th century.
If a lawyer fool and abuse you , you lose money. If a politician fool you, you lose money or opportunities. Frequently if a M.D. fool you, you just don’t recover as fast as expected or don’t recover at all ; but malpractice leading to deaths or severy injuries are not that many. And neither of those professions have the legal power to hold you against your will by categorizing your behavior as they see fit their twisted ends.
If a psychiatry fool you or injure you, that could mean you getting your mind all fucked up by psychotropic drugs ; your unwilling institutionalization in a mental hospital ; your physical health being SEVERELY damaged ; and even your premature death. So PLEASE, let’s just stop placing psychiatry’s “errors” in the same category as other professions. Not in the same “comparable magnitude” category AT ALL.
Let’s just not dismiss the potential damage inherent in psychiatry as a profession and as its methods of “healing” is concerned , and to just brush it all off just to disagree with LRH and/or the CofS. Cause that is a VERY deadly and silly road to go down to. We , Ex(es) , have a DUTY to others as well to protect them from Human Right abuses (which psychiatry DO commit in a daily basis worldwide) , and I am going to carry mine , rest assure.
Statpush : “But, taking that viewpoint does not bring in the big bucks, so they have to be ALL bad.”
Peter : Exactly so.
Statpush: “It really is pointless to cite inconsistencies (even to their own policy). Scn HAS to have their “Satan”, and they picked the psych.”
Peter : All cults need their “Satan” to be a cult in the first place.
” In my educated guess – which are frequently better than most people’s “facts” – this ratio is much higher in the psychiatry profession. I have no official stats to show you , but I am well educated in history…”
Peter, although the ad hominem and straw man are the premier logical fallacies, I’m happy to see you giving support to my personal favorite the woefully under-used, “appeal to authority”.
Sorry Roger, I won’t discuss this subject any longer here as it is obvious that the moderator doesn’t want that discussion to occur. So if you are interested here is my e-mail :
thetaclear68@yahoo.com
Hi thetaclear, I followed your post to statpush.Good to see you both here. I really like your last line ” all cults need their Satan.. So so true. You know I thought about you and that absolutely grown up Princess last night, so very happy to see your post.Love,Ann.
Thanks for the reply , my very dear Ann. See my 2nd reply to Todd to understand why I was away for some time. I also needed a little breathing from all the strong emotions that frequently manifest themselves in this blog. It has nothing to do with Mike ; he is ok. But my God , so much attacking something or someone gets overrrun sometimes , and one just needs to extrovert from it all , you know.
I just posted today as I felt the moral duty to make some clarifications regarding psychiatry as a profession. But I feel it just gets into deaf ears anyway. I don’t even know why I bother. This blog frequently turn (not because of Mike, he is ok) into the other extreme of fundamentalism. A “Term-Oppterm” dramatization of “Absolute rightness v/s Absolute wrongness”. It is just too heavy for me these days. I no longer have the stomach for it , I think.
When ones attacks something bad , dear Ann, for so long , we tend to lose perspective of the good , of the important things of life ; of also stressing the positive. It all degenerates into “Look how bad it is out there” , and one can lose oneself in the “fight”. One of these days Mike will understand that. He is fighting a war that he can’t possibly win ; nobody could as it is endemic to humanity as such. Perhaps I am just getting old , but this game is no longer fun for me. I must seek a proper balance between attacking the bad v/s concentrating and supporting the good as well. And I won’t find that balance here , that’s all. But you can always find me by e-mail.
Peter I couldn’t prevent myself from acking you for your viewpoint on psychiatry !
I am against any and all abuse the church, psychiatry, any type of fascist, totalitarian person…
Thanks FG ! ; I hope that life and family is ok.
Agreed on all, thetaclear. This is such a wrong target. If Scientology would just concentrate on clearing people, on caring for the beings in front of them, one at a time, they’d be in much better shape on all dynamics. If they would only focus on creating instead of destroying…ah, me. . If if if.
Aquamarine : “Agreed on all, thetaclear. This is such a wrong target. If Scientology would just concentrate on clearing people, on caring for the beings in front of them, one at a time, they’d be in much better shape on all dynamics. If they would only focus on creating instead of destroying…ah, me. . If if if.”
Peter : You are SO right about that , Aquamarine. LRH was always after wong targets :
1. “Clear the planet” which presupposed all of Earth’s population agreeing with Scn , and accepting it as their only “Route to spiritual salvation”. A misguided and silly proposition. Scn would have grown just fine based on books , and on teaching others co-audited techniques and do-it-yourself techniques. And all done in small INDEPENDENT centers which needed no more than 8-10 individuals to run them. 2-3 Sups, 1 W/Cer , 1-2 co-audit Sups , 1 receptionist , 1 dissemination/promotion terminal , 1 Reg/sales terminal, and 1 ED/Manager.
8 terminals could easily handle 20-25 bodies in the shop. Charging just $1,200 per level of training (TRs , class 0-V = 7 levels) that would be $8,400 to be able to go from Objectives to NED as a co-audit activity. Finishing at least one level per month (perfectly doable if not requiring having the god-damned perfection of a class 8 ) , that would bring in enough money to cover rent , utilities , and to pay the staff a decent salary of more than the federal minimum. NO Church status AT ALL needed. No “Clearing the planet” bullshit. Just a “learn to help yourself and others” proposition.
2. “Attack the dissenters and critics”. Wrong target. Right target : accept the ones that agree ; leave alone the ones that don’t , and welcome them back if they ever change their mind. Accept and confront ALL criticism.
3. “Attack and destroy psychiatry”. Wrong target. Right target : help them out ; teach them better ways. Reform the profession.
4. “Squirreling = ‘bad’ thing to attack”. Wrong target. Right target : Learn it as EXACTLY written first , apply it as exactly written while on training and while co-auditing under the center’s responsibility. But after finishing your training do what you wish with it , just DON’T call it Scn if you alter it , but call it something else or “based on the works of LRH”. One doesn’t expect an individual who learned Taekwondo to alter-is it , and sell its teaching of it as “Taekwondo” but as a different version of a martial art. He is expected to learn it , and to practice it as EXACTLY taught while he is on his training. After he is ALREADY done with his training (a black belt) , then he can modify it as he see fit , BUT he must call it something else then to not misrepresent the trademark dishonestly REGARDLESS if his modified version is even better than the original.
5. “Clear and Operating Thetan”. Wrong unattainable target. Right target : a greatly improved human being. An individual who can control his life.
And Scn would have flourished and prospered just fine , and LRH would have been remembered as a genius psychotherapist. And he would have earned royalties for his books and training manuals , and even royalties (let’s say 5% ? , 10 ? of all sales ) for the use of his method by official training centers. And he would have made good money w/out doing a bloody thing , while keeping himself busy with fiction books.
Please give me a hundred dollars I’m trying to get rid of psychiatry.
It’s one thing to disgrace yourself by using pictures of African children as bait for your panhandling enterprise but it’s quite another to encourage an already morally compromised demographic to write false reports on people they don’t even know. Mr. Kramer seems blissfully oblivious to how reprehensible that is. Sure, FSM commissions are drying up and a donations huckster has to turn somewhere for unearned income but being a complete scumbag is something a crook usually tries to keep concealed.
GAT 2 KSW:
So the ogre which might eat us up is not the government or the High Priests. It’s our possible failure to retain and practice our fundraising.
On the floor!
Ken Kramer – isn’t he married to an SO named Jo at FSSO? She’s a very nice woman.
But wait a minute – didn’t Mr Hubbard himself write something about stable data, and how you must be able to replace someone’s incorrect stable datum, otherwise they won’t dump it?
Now I’m no fan of most of what psychiatrists do, but how will this go?
“We need to get rid of psychiatry”
Politician – “but what will we do with people who are insane?”
“we know how to handle them, We are the only ones who know how to handle them”
Pol – “How? Show me”
Then what? They can show them their policy of turning away anyone who so much as visited a psych ONCE? Do they show them their success with the introspection rundown run on Lisa McPherson?
I had also to run the Introspection Rundown per order from some auditor and C/S .. but I went nearly nuts with that .. surely .. why? I can tell, but will not tell here now .. it is long way to grasp how Hubbard did mean to handle a psychotic person .. basically I was not psychiotic .. but the church did mean it in some way .. with his tech ..
Hi Friend, Thank you for your post. I hear what you said. Always, Ann.
There’s also no reference to CCHR in his letter.
“In order to get 100,000 complaints filed on USA psychiatrists this form needs to be blown out to the entire world wide web. (There are approx. 50,000 USA psychiatrists – 2 complaints each should cause a sizeable [sic] effect!)”
“‘Get it in Writing’…….That’s why we preach documents,documents,documents, DOCUMENTS!”
Hey, Ken! Thank you for providing in writing proof of your meritless attacks on all psychiatrists. Now, when any scientologist tries to smear any psychiatrist, that psychiatrist can use your document to have the charges thrown out.
Can you imagine at the IAS event next year David Miscavige announces to the crowd “…and as of 12:15 a.m. January 16, 2017 the Church of Scientology has effectively eliminated any threat ever again from the world’s 1,247 Psychiatrists”. I would stand up and cheer too, but for different reasons. 🙂
It’s easy to make jokes about the Kool Aid rundown (I’ve done it myself) but I would expect the day that DM finally departs from this land with his Swiss Bank ATM card to be an ugly one.
Scientology has no ear for sarcasm. The lines in Revolution weren’t as written. He couldn’t have picked a more ironic quote! People carrying pictures of chairman Ron…etc.
Scientology has made no secret of their unreasoned war on psychiatry. I’m going to guess their unfounded accusations are filed and given all the credence they deserve. Simply filing a complaint isn’t meaningful to anyone. An actual provable act of wrong-doing must have taken place. But, this complaint-filing gives these wannabe revolutionaries something to do and yet another thing to turn out their pockets for.
Congrats for the funding for the billboard! Hope this gets some coverage!
This is just an individual scammer. Nothing ties it to Scientology.
It seems there are dozens or hundred of alphabet soup front groups referencing LRH or Scn. Do they all have to give kickbacks to CoS and how much? Very confusing.
Sorry, you are perhaps unaware of the fact that Ken Kramer has been employed by OSA Flag for 20 years as their “Overt Data Collection” resource, and is part of CCHR Florida. And he sends these emails out to scientologists with the blessing of the church.
I didn’t know that. Anything for an extra buck (or 100) I guess. (smile)
Discovery of the true actions of the Cult are usually a lot worse that you think. That is what got me into trouble …. thinking that the ‘totally outlandish statements’ could have any basis in truth.
I recall when my daughter was going to join the See Orge at age 16. My sister ( a never in) read something about how Dave had a field if flowers planted at Hemet so Nicole and Tom could run through them naked. She said “you better be careful letting her join that bunch”.
I told her ….” You believe that shit?” Stupid me! As it turned out, it was worse that that! I hope my daughter reads the new billboard in Hollywood.
I hope she reads it to, Coop. And has a Wognition…..soon.
Hi Newcomer, I want to tell you what a bright laser light you are.All I can say is you are a beautiful spirit and I wish all that you want and need to come back to you in your life,I really want that for you and yours.And I love your posts.Love always,Ann.
I will say ‘trying’ to convince the world. The e mail or message is a bunch of generalities accompanied of course of the delusion of grandeur some scientologists have as hallmark.
Talking about psychiatrists I know of some decent ones that do help others – specific: Martha Stout with her book The Sociopath Next Door, a good read.
Again Mike you provided us with a good report exposing the hidden way this religion collects money for whatever reason – a scam indeed.
Yo Dave,
“It is a simple and deadly formula. Less steps than baking a cake.”
Here is a simple and deadly formula for you today:
1) We continue to tell the truth about your whining and sniveling about the Psychs ( not to mention the other huge pile of abusive characteristics of your cult)
2) You continue to get smaller, angrier, and more pathetic.
3) We cheer you on.
When will we see you on KSLUT? I would think an announcement to the throngs about Your grand opening of Your new studio could garner a couple more standing Os at the Bday event. Wha duh ya say?
KSLUT??? Really??? Man, I love that station! Any chance of you setting me up with a private tour, Coop?
I’m on it OSD. Did you also want the tour of Hollywood and the HGB? Dildo Dave is going to be in action doing his SCOHB thing …………. should be good!
A tour of Hollywood & the HGC would be excellent! I can always count on you, Coop!
I thought it was KSLAP to symbolize Dave’s impingement over the airwaves.
Yo Wei Botha,
“I really need you to take a hard look at this.”
https://www.gofundme.com/reconnectingfamily
Don’t forget to tell our good buddy Dave. And BTW, I think all of the plebes cruising Hollywood are going to need a briefing about how much you are winning these days.
There’s a smaller group that needs to be eliminated in order to prevent them from committing even more harmful practices against people. They are a group of people that are causing severe psychological trauma under the guise of “help”, and, even worse, they are not registered as professional practitioners of medicine and are unregulated by any kind of government or professional organization. They are called “Scientology auditors”.
I’m sure that we can easily set up a webpage that would automatically file complaints against them and forward them automatically to the FDA, the AMA, and state departments of health. There are only about a couple of thousand of them in the United States, so it would be no effort to file a couple of complaints about each of them. It should take no time whatsoever to eliminate the menace of “auditing” from the United States, and since they’re practicing unregulated medicine, there’s always the threat of fines or time in the pokey to make sure that no one else ever does this again.
Even better, I will solicit no money whatsoever to set up that webpage. How do you feel about that, Ken? Sauce for the goose and all that, Ken.
That would be funny to do. Wouldn’t cause any gov action but it would be funny to see DM screech about it. But, that would probably drive yet another Emergency Fund Raiser. Round and round it goes…
DM wouldn’t ever want to spend his retirement nest egg on anything that he promotes as being needed. Jeez, amazing that the still ins cannot see any of this.
Honest to God – I would have rather had “Electric Shock”
than the pain from finding out about Scientology’s shock of betrayal, criminal extortion, lies, bribery and murder by neglect by the covert implant of confusion mixed in with some truths – to many members.
My friend, who had a breakdown, got it and it worked very well – he is better and thriving and insurance covered it. It has been 5 years since he had the treatment.
Now that I was in and am thoroughly “disabused ” ( a little J&Ding) of L Ron Hubbard’s Tech – I believe Psychiatry helps more people than Scientology ever could. The proof are results and I know many people who are doing better in life due to their research and recovery methods.
Sure – there are corrupt doctors in the field – but there are justice actions and protection for the public. Scientology offers no protection for its members and it is run by a stark raving man – a Narcissist Sociopathic Psychpath. How’s that for an eval Miscavige?
Scientology makes “THE Psychs” a bunch of saints in comparison.
Exactly.
” I believe Psychiatry helps more people than Scientology ever could. The proof are results and I know many people who are doing better in life due to their research and recovery methods.”
Good! , show me your DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE to support your “facts” , and I’ll show you then my data supporting just the OPPOSITE. “Proof” ? , just show it buddy.
Please take this to personal email. I don’t really care for the endless back and forth this is going to start.
This is your blog, so I’ll do so. But I found this a rather odd attitude from you, I am afraid that I have to tell you that Mike. I’ve always supported your wise and effective efforts to expose the Human Rights abuses from the CofS , and even the ones from Scn as a philosophy itself. But in your desire to expose DM and the CofS, you are unwittingly and unintentionally supporting another group that I know that you are aware enough that is guilty of as many Human Rights abuses than the CofS and and Scn is. But have it your way ; I won’t bother engaging in arguments that I am sure you feel are unimportant to discuss. As I said, this is your blog and your rules.
Thanks. I am not supporting anything, I am pointing out the culture of scientology and lies it tells. IAS is bringing down psychiatry, no it isnt when people are begging for $100 to “eradicate psychiatry.” The culture of “give me money” so I can “clear the Planet” or “handle illiteracy” or “Eradicate psychiatry” is sadly pathetic.
Hey, Mike. Get this. I was sitting here just now watching a DVD about the third reich and for some reason I began thinking about Scientology. Is that weird or what?
Thanks ; we have no disagreements on that at all , and yes, it is very pathetic from them. But that doesn’t make psychiatry any more valuable and “helpful” to society neither ; it ISN’T, and that was my whole point. You are not presenting nor allowing discussion of the other side of the coin to not derail from the main subject that the post is based upon, which I can understand you wanting to do that. However,with all due respect, I find that attitude misguided , but that’s only my opinion which I feel I am entitled to have. So I won’t discuss the OBVIOUS inherent destructivenes that psychiatry possesses, and even a LOT more than Scn, out of respect to you , but please, do not interpret it as meaning I agree with your move ; I don’t , but again, your blog , your rules.
Thanks Peter. Glad you understand. My reticence is that you are not going to convince the people you are trying to convince that psychiatry is bad and they are not going to convince you it is good. So, why waste time and effort. Spend your time on something more constructive. If you think my views on psychiatry are that it is all good, you have a fundamental misconception. But I also don’t think it is all bad either. I have seen people helped with scientology and with psychiatry. I think a lot of it boils down to the intention of the person doing the helping, no matter what tools they use.
Thanks Mike ; perhaps you are right about directing my energy better. And yes , it boils down to the practitioner’s intention. I don’t think that all psychiatrists are bad ; perhaps no more than 25% of them are bad apples. And I’ve also seen people helped by good psychiatrists using non invasive methods. This isn’t a “black and white” proposition. But the profession does needs some heavy reforming and training into better methods of psychotherapy.
A real study a psychiatry has to be done. Book have been written by psychs about it. Denouncing the abuse. Now, the law should not provide them such a power to lock people. The work of CCHR in the the 1960 and 70 was helping to reform it.
Now, like all church actions it’s a mean to collect money for Miscavige. Scientology is emasculated, nobody think it can help… It’s very sad and so untrue. Miscavige is a criminal and the day he will fall will be a great moment of joy. I am not a hater of anything, but of Miscavige yes…. unlimited tone 40 postulate that he will be invaded by cancer cells!
FG : “A real study a psychiatry has to be done. Book have been written by psychs about it. Denouncing the abuse. Now, the law should not provide them such a power to lock people. The work of CCHR in the the 1960 and 70 was helping to reform it.”
“Now, like all church actions it’s a mean to collect money for Miscavige. Scientology is emasculated, nobody think it can help… It’s very sad and so untrue. Miscavige is a criminal and the day he will fall will be a great moment of joy. I am not a hater of anything, but of Miscavige yes…. unlimited tone 40 postulate that he will be invaded by cancer cells!”
Peter : Now , be careful with such postulates , my friend. Such postulates always back-fire. DM is not worth it. Just concentrate on getting better in life , and doing the right thing , and everything will balance out sooner than later. No bad deeds go un-punish in life. DM will have his justice , rest assured. But not necessarily human justice , but one much , much worse.
I don’t think you’ll ever get Scientologists much supporting a gofundme. Scientologists are functioning machines that respond to FORCE and pressure being applied to their levers. They need the reg right in their face pushing the programmed buttons. Forget human communication above 0.00 on the tone scale. They operate at a MEST level (no matter how the apparency is contrived). They do not operate in any type of thought band as long as they stay in the CoS.
Don’t do this on the internet but it’s okay to do that on the internet. But in order for it to be okay to do that on the internet you need to give me $100. Now if you don’t give me that $100 I really won’t give a crap about what dirt you may dig up on some psychiatrist. No money and I will delete your sorry ass from this magnificent program to free the world. Moral to this sad tale?….If you have no money you are not a Scientologist. If you have money and won’t give it you are not a Scientologist. If you want to spend your money on training and processing you are not a Scientologist.
CCHR International is one of many MONEY FUNNELS
that keep David Miscavige riding high on a lavish rock star lifestyle.
Psychiatry must continue to BE there as a reason for D.M. to raise funds.
The biggest criminals in Scientology besides Jan Eastgate and Bruce Wiseman are
CCHR Int. Fundraisers. Carrie Alkins ( deceased) the most notorious sleaze
Psychiatry agent refused to put in a small group to eliminate Electro Shock (ECT)
(Every fifteen minutes someone in Europe is Electro Shocked)
Instead she levied huge fines on anyone threatening ECT.
After all who gives a shit about Europeans when it’s money in the COB’s pocket.
Roast in Hell Carrie Alkins, say hello to Hitler.
Should we include Thomas Szasz in that category too? Just wanted to see how you would react.
Never met the guy or gave him money.
David Miscavige promoted that there were 26,000 Psych busters in Europe
showing a CGI graphic representing this claim in 2009. Currently there are only 10,000
to 20,000 active Scientologists in the World and psych cases have increased since
the COB made these impossible claims.
How about a writ of Habeous Corpus on David Miscavige to
produce substance to his drunken raving.He should get court ordered
1,000 Electro Shocks.
Thomas Szasz was the Hungarian psychiatrist who helped the Cof $ found CCHR back in 1969.
All they need or want is 100,000 complaints. In an organization their size, straight up & vertical, expanding at 46x blah blah blah, it seems they should be able to accomplish their goal within the next hour or so.
My question is not “what’s taking so long”, but why hasn’t Scientology already eradicated psychiatry?
Scientology truly is a science of destroying people without them even knowing it. Then – pointing the finger at another group who ignored L Ron Hubbard and made him angry – real angry.
Scientology is 64 years of getting back at The Psychs and they don’t do anything of any value to anyone.
Keeping members busy is the key…while they bankrupt them, inflate their egos and enslave them for eternity!
It is quite the con game and all under the United States of America’s unjust justice system built for Miss Gotbucks only.
The truth will destroy Scientology. The lawsuits don’t do much of anything because Scientology has billions of dollars to play that dirty game.
As in, “I’m angry! Real angry.” I wonder if Tommy “The Weasel” Davis is still angry?
Scientology is more dangerous than psychiatry.
I know a bunch of psychiatrists and they are good guys, honest and caring.
I can’t say I know a bunch of scientologists who are good guys, honest and caring!
It is a weakness to be honest and caring in sciento!kgy sadly.
“Changing the world” is as simple as smiling at a stranger, getting the checkout person at Publix to laugh, handing a dollar to a guy on the street who looks hungry, etc. It takes no organization, especially one which claims to be THE experts. If you really want to know where to place your dollars, check out http://charitywatch.org. (Scio is not even listed there.) And the big Tampa paper has an excellent article regarding charity scams, especially the big ones. http://www.tampabay.com/topics/specials/worst-charities1.page
Excellent post! Truly, we can all make a difference if we operate from a position of love.
I had to laugh at the man basically encouraging people to false report a psychiatrist they had never gone to simply so there wold have been a record of him having been reported then asking for money to collect the false reports generated by that method.
The problem with pointing an accusing finger at “psychs” is that the ones who are investigated and are bad are actually regulated and corrections and controls are implemented in their profession. The other ones show that someone vindictively reported them for no reason.
I’m not sure how reporting someone takes down a profession, we can’t manage to stop David Miscavige’s money machine and we at telling only truths.
The “church” of scientology has no governing body, only a dictator and imprisoned executives. For every spitwad laden with lies that they shoot from behind their luxurious doors, there are more and more truths piling up. I hope those truths eventually break it.
It took 24 hours to fund a billboard about scientology disconnection that will be going up on Hollywood Blvd.
https://www.gofundme.com/reconnectingfamily
The more funds it gets the longer it stays up. Commenters are asking for one to go up in Clearwater now.
A message to the “church” of scientology in general and David Miscavige in particular: when there are so many things that are so very very wrong in your own house, it is not a wise move to tell someone else to clean theirs.
I thought the same Valerie. Write false reports, more lies, or give us the money to do it.
I agree with all your comment. Thank you
Valerie, the Church of Scientology is the laughing stock of Earth from DM on down to the VM’s in Louisiana. 🙂 How can going up to someone that went to college for 12+ years at least and practically spitting at them improve the world or one’s communication with those around one? I will be truthful, I have always believed this to be what is wrong with the Church of Scientology since the first day I met them at my house when I was 16. There actions in person to me and around the world have filled in that gap in understanding I once thought I had about them. That they get new recruits every day is just an inkling of the kind of hatred and violence that group is capable of spawning between people. ONLY if you believe they can. Apparently, with advent of the OSA the church doesn’t like smart people any more? 🙂
Valerie – so excellent? The goal was $8,200 to keep the billboard up for three months. As of a few minutes ago, they’ve raised $9,762 from 176 people.
states takes no action either when they do not receive new complaints against the cult!
The FBI works in all the states. Know something? Drop a dime (into pay phone) stop a crime. They’ll get DM eventually. Call the FBI. Again and again. And again. They will figure it out. Don’t complain about psychs, complain about the Co$. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. So squeak already
Squeak already +1000
Destroy CIA “Psychiatry”, “Narconon”, “Dianetis”,…
“Scientology” must perish
The delusion is strong with this one.
Assuming that every psychiatrist has at least two complaints against them is ridiculous. SMH
Any lurkers who may be thinking of donating to this guy, know this: Most complaints and/or discipline actions against any doctor, lawyer, or mental health professional can usually be found for free online. There is little to no information that he needs to pay for.
Nice try though Ken. What’s up? Is the light bill due?
“I’m shooting for Patron Venomous.” Ken
You’re shooting a patron with venum in him or her? Why not just let him/her die naturally?
Ooooo. I hope it’s a snake trophy. 😀
It is Nola. For the right ‘donation’ you get the Python Predatorious Medal for Minions and an autographed Polaroid snapshot of COB reading a telex.
How much do you have to donate to the IAS to achieve the status of Patron Vomitus? That’s what I’m aiming for!
No donation required alcoboy. Just watch any IAS event with Dave speaking to easily induce vomiting. Then patronize Kmart by buying a trophy to symbolize your accomplishment, and voila, the status you seek will be yours.
Scientology is not just handling the psychs!
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/church-of-scientology-seattle-world-civil-defense-day-forum-300227505.html
Yup, they’re on a regular PR bender with a ton of meaningless and fact-free “info”mercials disguised as “news.” It’s remarkable how few takers these “news” find, even though picking them up gives blogs revenue as well as a few print inches they don’t have to fill themselves.
“Scientology: Lose 100 lbs without effort and grow your thingy to frightening proportions. As seen on TV!”
Scientology is eradicating psychiatry about as much as Saints Alive in Jesus is eradicating Mormonism or Jack Chick booklets are getting rid of the Catholic church.
Ken – thanks for the Beatles quote at the beginning of your missive. I’m sure John Lennon would have some apt words to say to you about that. As far as creating a big effect with your campaign, I’m sure you’ll be as successful as an 8 year old boy with a pea shooter trying to bring down enemy aircraft. Here’s a suggestion: work on cleaning up the abuses in your own organization, such as disconnection, fair game, enforced abortion and financing David Miscavige’s luxurious lifestyle.
Amen to that!
Never a truer word spoken. Hear! Hear!
Succinct and poignant! Yes hear hear!