Thank you so much for this level-headed comment. 🙂
And belated Happy New Year to you all!

Sorry. Italic should have ended after your statement: “His basic point was that no one really completed OT VII.”

Thank you George! This explains so much.

His basic point was that no one really completed OT VII.

And BTW, can you imagine that HE was auditing on OTVII like it should be done? Me not.

Aka faith.

“I am convinced that the religion is basically ‘Satanic’ in nature and does not fit any conceivable definition of religion by the Founding Fathers.”

Irrelevant. And if you’ll excuse the pun, a divine fallacy.

“I have spent years defining Scientology. How it developed. Who exactly he copied from. At its core, Scientology is anti-Christian and this is the ultimate “Truth Revealed” about Scientology.”

Being “anti-christian” has no bearing on scientology’s religiosity. Or it’s potential value. And if one is paying close attention, it’s a truth that can be found very early on.

Scientology is built on faith. Not just the in Hubbard, the Tech and the expectation of results, but in the values assigned to the literal interpretation of preconditioned subconscious narratives offered up during therapy.

A placebo, by definition, is deceptive. Scientology is arguably at its most therapeutically potent when the individual a) is unaware of being deluded, and b) assigns a high truth value to his delusions.

This is no different to any other religious faith.

Reducing scientology to a form of christian oppositionist therapy (if that’s indeed what you’re doing) is rather reductive, if I may say. Hubbard (like LaVey) arguably identified with the indulgent, irrepressible and rebellious nature of satan as a fictional being, but christianity has no monopoly on those terms or the authority to define them as morally evil.

Was it Lyn Irons’ wife? She had a stroke as well and eventually died.

I knew a woman who did OT VIII and within a month of return had a severe stroke. She lived. But the Scns were buzzing behind her back wondering how a recent OT VIII completion could come home and have a stroke. They never thought to wonder if there was out tech on OT VIII.

Miscavige wrote the famous 36 page “Why OT VII failed document” to explain why OT VIII failed. His basic point was that no one really completed OT VII. He never really touched on the point in the document that OT VIII anti-Christ document had anything to do with it. You are correct. There were two groups. One group had BI’s over the anti-Christ stuff. They had to either return to Flag or to the ship. Miscavige in the end made everyone go back to Flag. He was down on the ship. The 36 page document which I read was written by a child’s mentality – Miscavige. He went through the seven sessions that Hubbard had on OT VII and excluded all of the tech that was published that did not fall in it. Then he reviewed everyone’s folder claiming “Everyone did at least one thing that Hubbard did not do on OT VII”. People were then ordered to Flag to re-do OT VII. It took almost ten years for anyone to complete. The first person on OT VIII got a completion with a simplified version of OT VIII which was nothing more than a review of OT VII auditing and a simple statement like “I’m now OK knowing where I have been” or something like it cause I do not remember the exact words.

How was it explained to you and the other OTVIIIs who were affected why you would have to go back on OTVII ?

It appeared to me that those OTVIIIs who got recalled to the ship because of it had BIs.
When I asked an OT VIII staff* (auditor) about it (why they came back), he said something that they would “have missed something” (like on OTVII). Did you get told the same? I know you didn’t go back after VIII, but didn’t they try to get you back?

He was also RPFed, AFAIK. He had quite a beaten down expression after that. I sensed that something was very wrong but didn’t ask further, as I had the notion that I would anyway not get a proper explanation and also because I was not on the OT levels and not working in Tech.

I’ll reply here, we ran out of room below —

Thanks, Chuck. I Think there was a Chuck Prenner in Qual posting on Flag in ’81. Or maybe at AO in 79 or 80.

So far, anonymous posting is as daring as I get.

I was class V org staff, and OOT at Flag and LA and when I think of you I think of the INCOMM building and routing forms. 🙂

It must be thru that when I was in the HCO network.

Thanks for encouraging.