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	Comments on: Ideal Org Desperation	</title>
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	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
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		<title>
		By: randomcat		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220944</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[randomcat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2018 00:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=390889#comment-220944</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220817&quot;&gt;Jere Lull (37 years recovering)&lt;/a&gt;.

My understanding of “fair use” for images, at least n the U.S., is that it should usually involve some sort of analysis related to the image itself.   For example: Using a photo to help explain a historic event.  Using an image that directly relates to the explanation of a current event.   Using a movie photo in a discussion of that film.
These ‘fair use’ images are not to be used for profit. That would even include something like publishing a history book, for a small profit.
Someone claiming  “fair use” doesn’t mean it qualifies for fair use.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220817">Jere Lull (37 years recovering)</a>.</p>
<p>My understanding of “fair use” for images, at least n the U.S., is that it should usually involve some sort of analysis related to the image itself.   For example: Using a photo to help explain a historic event.  Using an image that directly relates to the explanation of a current event.   Using a movie photo in a discussion of that film.<br />
These ‘fair use’ images are not to be used for profit. That would even include something like publishing a history book, for a small profit.<br />
Someone claiming  “fair use” doesn’t mean it qualifies for fair use.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bruce Ploetz		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220854</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce Ploetz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2018 15:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=390889#comment-220854</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220822&quot;&gt;Jere Lull (37 years recovering)&lt;/a&gt;.

Jere, when I got to the Int Base in &#039;83 there was exactly one personal computer that I saw, Wik Allcock&#039;s Osborne running WordStar. But of course there were WiCats and dumb terminals all over the place running their proprietary messaging system, Mercury. 

Soon after that Don Bateman got a MAC (the original single box one with a built-in screen). For a long time the Gold Treasury was run on an Apple ][. We didn&#039;t really start going crazy about IBM PCs until the late 80s though some were around. 

The history of computers in the Sea Org cannot be complete without mentioning Ken Delderfield&#039;s Unix based type setting-system. They moved it to LA in the early 80s, that is where I got to play with it a bit. Partly coded in Forth. That was at Bridge Publications, where we also had a Digital system running SNOBOL. 

Hubbard knew about computers but most of what he knew was wrong. Check out his ideas (with &quot;Computer Operator&quot; Ron Clifford) on Ron&#039;s Journal 38. He has Clifford type in questions (on a very loud keyboard) and reads out the answer, for all the world like the Doc Wonmug computer in the old Allie Oop cartoons. The computer is always perfect. Ha.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220822">Jere Lull (37 years recovering)</a>.</p>
<p>Jere, when I got to the Int Base in &#8217;83 there was exactly one personal computer that I saw, Wik Allcock&#8217;s Osborne running WordStar. But of course there were WiCats and dumb terminals all over the place running their proprietary messaging system, Mercury. </p>
<p>Soon after that Don Bateman got a MAC (the original single box one with a built-in screen). For a long time the Gold Treasury was run on an Apple ][. We didn&#8217;t really start going crazy about IBM PCs until the late 80s though some were around. </p>
<p>The history of computers in the Sea Org cannot be complete without mentioning Ken Delderfield&#8217;s Unix based type setting-system. They moved it to LA in the early 80s, that is where I got to play with it a bit. Partly coded in Forth. That was at Bridge Publications, where we also had a Digital system running SNOBOL. </p>
<p>Hubbard knew about computers but most of what he knew was wrong. Check out his ideas (with &#8220;Computer Operator&#8221; Ron Clifford) on Ron&#8217;s Journal 38. He has Clifford type in questions (on a very loud keyboard) and reads out the answer, for all the world like the Doc Wonmug computer in the old Allie Oop cartoons. The computer is always perfect. Ha.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jere Lull (37 years recovering)		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220851</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jere Lull (37 years recovering)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2018 15:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=390889#comment-220851</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220661&quot;&gt;hgc10&lt;/a&gt;.

HGC10: Loki was indeed the trickster, never to be depended upon.  He did WHAT he wanted, WHEN he wanted, so was much like Tubby and is fairly appropriate for Thor to reach out to to help Perth in its hopeless quest.

Hey guys!!!!! Tubby never said nothing about CF folders being in strict date order; he didn&#039;t say that all the possibly pertinent data had to be entered into a separate computer database.  Heck, I worked for insurance companies who could afford the manpower and computer power to have two parallel databases, one in hardcopy.  Legally and financially, the hardcopy was required, especially those customer signatures on legal docs. Did I mention it was expen$ive?  &#039;twas also SLOW when the file folder was needed and it was in someone&#039;s &quot;pending research&quot; stack for a week.

And that was a system and company DESIGNED and built specifically to have those attributes, doing little else but keep the various files and databases straight]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220661">hgc10</a>.</p>
<p>HGC10: Loki was indeed the trickster, never to be depended upon.  He did WHAT he wanted, WHEN he wanted, so was much like Tubby and is fairly appropriate for Thor to reach out to to help Perth in its hopeless quest.</p>
<p>Hey guys!!!!! Tubby never said nothing about CF folders being in strict date order; he didn&#8217;t say that all the possibly pertinent data had to be entered into a separate computer database.  Heck, I worked for insurance companies who could afford the manpower and computer power to have two parallel databases, one in hardcopy.  Legally and financially, the hardcopy was required, especially those customer signatures on legal docs. Did I mention it was expen$ive?  &#8217;twas also SLOW when the file folder was needed and it was in someone&#8217;s &#8220;pending research&#8221; stack for a week.</p>
<p>And that was a system and company DESIGNED and built specifically to have those attributes, doing little else but keep the various files and databases straight</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jere Lull (37 years recovering)		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220845</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jere Lull (37 years recovering)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2018 14:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=390889#comment-220845</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220657&quot;&gt;Marne&lt;/a&gt;.

Marne: for &quot;us&quot; to be &quot;millions strong&quot;, THEY must have been millions strong at some point, since most or all of us are exes.  Thinking again, there ARE millions who watched &quot;Aftermath&quot; and at least a few who are dedicated to taking Dwarfenführer DOWN.

My point is that I doubt scn ever had as many as a million members who had gotten as far as the TRs and KSW  Those two milestones were what converted people into real raving-mad scientologists, IMO.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220657">Marne</a>.</p>
<p>Marne: for &#8220;us&#8221; to be &#8220;millions strong&#8221;, THEY must have been millions strong at some point, since most or all of us are exes.  Thinking again, there ARE millions who watched &#8220;Aftermath&#8221; and at least a few who are dedicated to taking Dwarfenführer DOWN.</p>
<p>My point is that I doubt scn ever had as many as a million members who had gotten as far as the TRs and KSW  Those two milestones were what converted people into real raving-mad scientologists, IMO.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wynski		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220844</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wynski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2018 14:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=390889#comment-220844</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220822&quot;&gt;Jere Lull (37 years recovering)&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;37 years later and I don’t think OCR technology has improved that much.&quot;

In 1995 I was using an OCR that you could put a bound book into and it would  compensate for the curve of the page, recognize the text, correct any spelling and out put a page a second with no errors.  It cost about $100k for the entire set up.  Ran on Unix.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220822">Jere Lull (37 years recovering)</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;37 years later and I don’t think OCR technology has improved that much.&#8221;</p>
<p>In 1995 I was using an OCR that you could put a bound book into and it would  compensate for the curve of the page, recognize the text, correct any spelling and out put a page a second with no errors.  It cost about $100k for the entire set up.  Ran on Unix.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wynski		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220840</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wynski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2018 14:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=390889#comment-220840</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220684&quot;&gt;Peter Norton&lt;/a&gt;.

Peter, only for &quot;wet signatures&quot; where digital sigs aren&#039;t legally recognized.  The CoS has no such need for anything but its OSA legal crap.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220684">Peter Norton</a>.</p>
<p>Peter, only for &#8220;wet signatures&#8221; where digital sigs aren&#8217;t legally recognized.  The CoS has no such need for anything but its OSA legal crap.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jere Lull (37 years recovering)		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220838</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jere Lull (37 years recovering)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2018 14:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=390889#comment-220838</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220824&quot;&gt;mk&lt;/a&gt;.

mk, the filing&#039;s YEARS old and probably never was up-to-date.  AFAICT, Flag&#039;s CF was never in PT onboard Apollo.  Remember, CF includes a file for EVERYone who had ever purchased ANYthing from the org(or franchise).  Files/names&#038;addresses are never trashed, though they can be deadfiled, which cuts down on the messages from the org to them. (Just read the HCOPL on that a few days ago; forget where I found it. Interesting reading....  As Flag&#039;s CF officer and the one who got their CF into PT for the first time, I was unaware of the PL as late as 1980. )]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220824">mk</a>.</p>
<p>mk, the filing&#8217;s YEARS old and probably never was up-to-date.  AFAICT, Flag&#8217;s CF was never in PT onboard Apollo.  Remember, CF includes a file for EVERYone who had ever purchased ANYthing from the org(or franchise).  Files/names&amp;addresses are never trashed, though they can be deadfiled, which cuts down on the messages from the org to them. (Just read the HCOPL on that a few days ago; forget where I found it. Interesting reading&#8230;.  As Flag&#8217;s CF officer and the one who got their CF into PT for the first time, I was unaware of the PL as late as 1980. )</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jere Lull (37 years recovering)		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220834</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jere Lull (37 years recovering)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2018 13:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=390889#comment-220834</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220684&quot;&gt;Peter Norton&lt;/a&gt;.

A number of corporations are still using IBM mainframes and &quot;plug compatibles&quot;  As costly as they are to maintain, they&#039;re afraid of the cost to retool even though they have to recode their programs periodically to keep up with user expectations and increased volume.

My Dad programmed IBMs back in the &#039;60s. it&#039;s likly that some of his code still is in use.  At the time, IBM was expensive, but was the only hardware that could take the load.  My 20-year-old Mac, here, could run rings around any of them made at the time, and can be programmed in modern languages, cutting development time to near instant.  Heck, a quick spreadsheet could have eliminated the need for most of the code he labored over for months and months.  And it doesn&#039;t require a specially built room with super-massive air conditioners that MUST keep the room below a certain temp.  Heck any recent computer with &quot;Intel onboard&quot; might be stronger than the supercomputers of the era.

The thing is that computers existed even in the 50s, though Tubby never learned much about &#039;em.  They weren&#039;t nearly as easy to use as any of the PCs -- from the Apple ][ on -- and computers you&#039;d hand to Grandma didn&#039;t happen until the Macintosh, and eventually when Windows caught up, sorta.  The internet, then called DARPAnet, came along by &#039;82, but didn&#039;t really catch on until the &#039;90s.  Tubby must be spinning rapidly around Target 2 if he&#039;s gotten any inkling of how things have developed: Sites like this, scn&#039;s impotence(thus Tubby&#039;s  impotence ) against  the modern world of the web Even if he had a body and full recall, he could merely rage against the multitude of conspiracies working against him and his alter-ego creation, no way he could successfully get away with his lies as he used to.  If he had hair, he&#039;d be ripping it out by the handful, complaining that we&#039;re ALL out to kill him.  As for me, I&#039;m not interested in killing anyone, nor am I particularly active against Scientology.  Hopefully, I&#039;ll learn to ignore scn&#039;s implosion and simply completely walk away, leaving it to do itself in.  Maybe I won&#039;t even notice the one-line announcement that the last scn org shuttered itself.  Probably won&#039;t notice when the  last diehard dies, probably at her post&#039;s desk at 2:00PM on some Thursday as she puts herself in treason for downstats and declares herself Suppressive and then disconnects from herself.  THAT, AFAICT, is likely how scn will finally end. 

 As I think, that&#039;s a SF plot worthy of Phillip K Dick, who was a paranoid case who might make Tubby seem sane. Dick was a deeply disturbed soul, worth a read if you&#039;re up to the challenge emotionally. As I recall, &quot;Vulcan&#039;s Hammer&quot; hit home particularly.  At least he didn&#039;t invent a *fiction science* to convert others to his form of insanity.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220684">Peter Norton</a>.</p>
<p>A number of corporations are still using IBM mainframes and &#8220;plug compatibles&#8221;  As costly as they are to maintain, they&#8217;re afraid of the cost to retool even though they have to recode their programs periodically to keep up with user expectations and increased volume.</p>
<p>My Dad programmed IBMs back in the &#8217;60s. it&#8217;s likly that some of his code still is in use.  At the time, IBM was expensive, but was the only hardware that could take the load.  My 20-year-old Mac, here, could run rings around any of them made at the time, and can be programmed in modern languages, cutting development time to near instant.  Heck, a quick spreadsheet could have eliminated the need for most of the code he labored over for months and months.  And it doesn&#8217;t require a specially built room with super-massive air conditioners that MUST keep the room below a certain temp.  Heck any recent computer with &#8220;Intel onboard&#8221; might be stronger than the supercomputers of the era.</p>
<p>The thing is that computers existed even in the 50s, though Tubby never learned much about &#8217;em.  They weren&#8217;t nearly as easy to use as any of the PCs &#8212; from the Apple ][ on &#8212; and computers you&#8217;d hand to Grandma didn&#8217;t happen until the Macintosh, and eventually when Windows caught up, sorta.  The internet, then called DARPAnet, came along by &#8217;82, but didn&#8217;t really catch on until the &#8217;90s.  Tubby must be spinning rapidly around Target 2 if he&#8217;s gotten any inkling of how things have developed: Sites like this, scn&#8217;s impotence(thus Tubby&#8217;s  impotence ) against  the modern world of the web Even if he had a body and full recall, he could merely rage against the multitude of conspiracies working against him and his alter-ego creation, no way he could successfully get away with his lies as he used to.  If he had hair, he&#8217;d be ripping it out by the handful, complaining that we&#8217;re ALL out to kill him.  As for me, I&#8217;m not interested in killing anyone, nor am I particularly active against Scientology.  Hopefully, I&#8217;ll learn to ignore scn&#8217;s implosion and simply completely walk away, leaving it to do itself in.  Maybe I won&#8217;t even notice the one-line announcement that the last scn org shuttered itself.  Probably won&#8217;t notice when the  last diehard dies, probably at her post&#8217;s desk at 2:00PM on some Thursday as she puts herself in treason for downstats and declares herself Suppressive and then disconnects from herself.  THAT, AFAICT, is likely how scn will finally end. </p>
<p> As I think, that&#8217;s a SF plot worthy of Phillip K Dick, who was a paranoid case who might make Tubby seem sane. Dick was a deeply disturbed soul, worth a read if you&#8217;re up to the challenge emotionally. As I recall, &#8220;Vulcan&#8217;s Hammer&#8221; hit home particularly.  At least he didn&#8217;t invent a *fiction science* to convert others to his form of insanity.</p>
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		By: Jere Lull (37 years recovering)		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220833</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jere Lull (37 years recovering)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2018 12:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=390889#comment-220833</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220717&quot;&gt;Wynski&lt;/a&gt;.

Ahhh! the venerable ][ plus: a smoking machine that I once programmed to call up Compu$erve, hit Dow Jones to get the day&#039;s stock prices, then call our mainframe in NY to d/l the prices and kick off that day&#039;s processing.  Fun times....  It&#039;s claim to fame was that you could program it in FORTRAN or other languages and have space for 64k code and 64k data; 128k in total, with addressing well outside the 640k limit Microstft imposed (Since &quot;No one woud need programs or datafiles bigger than that.&quot; Windows STILL bumps against that bug on occasion)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220717">Wynski</a>.</p>
<p>Ahhh! the venerable ][ plus: a smoking machine that I once programmed to call up Compu$erve, hit Dow Jones to get the day&#8217;s stock prices, then call our mainframe in NY to d/l the prices and kick off that day&#8217;s processing.  Fun times&#8230;.  It&#8217;s claim to fame was that you could program it in FORTRAN or other languages and have space for 64k code and 64k data; 128k in total, with addressing well outside the 640k limit Microstft imposed (Since &#8220;No one woud need programs or datafiles bigger than that.&#8221; Windows STILL bumps against that bug on occasion)</p>
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		By: Jere Lull (37 years recovering)		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220831</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jere Lull (37 years recovering)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2018 12:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=390889#comment-220831</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220634&quot;&gt;Wynski&lt;/a&gt;.

Hey, after 68 years, no one&#039;s been able to assemble a working *Dianetics*! 
 Not one Book 1 Clear.
 Ever.
 Not one OT.
  Ever.  The *best* Success Stories® have been delusional.  Fun reading sometimes but not ever evidence of the promised EPs  Yeah, maybe they had a day after session where they &quot;made&quot; all the green lights for a while, but that happens to everyone if they&#039;re looking for such.  long before scn, I used to be able to drive into college without having to stop for a red light.That was just from knowing the timing and the speed that got me to the light at the right time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-org-desperation/#comment-220634">Wynski</a>.</p>
<p>Hey, after 68 years, no one&#8217;s been able to assemble a working *Dianetics*!<br />
 Not one Book 1 Clear.<br />
 Ever.<br />
 Not one OT.<br />
  Ever.  The *best* Success Stories® have been delusional.  Fun reading sometimes but not ever evidence of the promised EPs  Yeah, maybe they had a day after session where they &#8220;made&#8221; all the green lights for a while, but that happens to everyone if they&#8217;re looking for such.  long before scn, I used to be able to drive into college without having to stop for a red light.That was just from knowing the timing and the speed that got me to the light at the right time.</p>
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