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	<title>
	Comments on: Ideal Orgs &#8212; Some Inconvenient Truths	</title>
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	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:34:05 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: cindy		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63527</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cindy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=19975#comment-63527</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63437&quot;&gt;indie8million&lt;/a&gt;.

It&#039;s going to be close to 100 degrees on Sat and Sun in the LA area this weekend.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63437">indie8million</a>.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s going to be close to 100 degrees on Sat and Sun in the LA area this weekend.</p>
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		<title>
		By: indie8million		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63449</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[indie8million]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 16:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63236&quot;&gt;Swampland4Sale&lt;/a&gt;.

Uncle Peppin: Very interesting.  Highly possible that this &quot;wham bam&quot; hurried action is to &quot;avert some looming compliance issue,&quot;

Would love to hear from someone still in.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63236">Swampland4Sale</a>.</p>
<p>Uncle Peppin: Very interesting.  Highly possible that this &#8220;wham bam&#8221; hurried action is to &#8220;avert some looming compliance issue,&#8221;</p>
<p>Would love to hear from someone still in.</p>
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		<title>
		By: indie8million		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63439</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[indie8million]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 15:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=19975#comment-63439</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63199&quot;&gt;Zephyr&lt;/a&gt;.

I agree with Cindy. Stat push. Bonus, if you can sec check them at the same time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63199">Zephyr</a>.</p>
<p>I agree with Cindy. Stat push. Bonus, if you can sec check them at the same time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: indie8million		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63437</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[indie8million]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 15:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=19975#comment-63437</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63238&quot;&gt;Lurkness&lt;/a&gt;.

hahaha, Lurkness. So true, so true.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63238">Lurkness</a>.</p>
<p>hahaha, Lurkness. So true, so true.</p>
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		<title>
		By: indie8million		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63435</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[indie8million]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 14:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=19975#comment-63435</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63181&quot;&gt;Margaret&lt;/a&gt;.

COB sure gave the great Martin Samuels a cornholing. Lots of similarities with Al Capone, this &quot;Cornholio Cob.&quot;

http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/samuels1.html

Jon Atack: &quot;A Piece of Blue Sky - Chapter 2: The Scientology War&quot;

Martin Samuels was a legend among Scientologists. He ran a chain of five Missions. The Church&#039;s magazine Center, devoted to the Mission network, was always heavy with praise for Samuels. A 1975 issue says that in a single year 3,000 new people started the Communication Course in Samuels&#039; Missions. His Missions usually came out at the top in the quarterly Mission statistics, even taken individually. In Center 23, Martin Samuels was &quot;Particularly COMMENDED&quot; for his &quot;brilliant application.&quot; Out of the fifty listed, his Sacramento, Portland and Davis Missions were the top three in the Center &quot;Award of Merit&quot; contest for that quarter.
In early 1970s, Samuels started the Delphian Project. It began as a center for research into Alternative Energy, but a school, the Delphian Foundation, was established for the children of Project staff. The school used Hubbard&#039;s &quot;Study Technology.&quot; It soon generated interest from other Scientologists, so the school became Delphi&#039;s main activity. By the time of the Mission Holders&#039; Conference Samuels had twelve schools, with over 600 pupils.

Scientology Missions report various performance statistics to the Church every week. The Mission income figures are listed and distributed to Mission Holders to show which are most successful. For the first week of September 1982, just before the Conference, the total income of the eighty or so Missions throughout the world was $808,435. For the U.S. Missions it was $643,737, and Samuels&#039; Missions made up $172,825 of that. Which is to say they represented over a quarter of the U.S. Missions income, and over a fifth of the worldwide income. Incidentally, Kingsley Wimbush&#039;s major Mission made $154,101 that week. So between them Samuels and Wimbush accounted for more than half of the U.S. Missions income. Ten percent of this was paid straight to the Church.

But at the end of the Mission Holders&#039; Conference Samuels spoke out. On top of their normal ten percent tithe to the Scientology Church, the Mission Holders had been ordered to pay five percent for a promotional campaign to Bridge Publications. Samuels explained that he could not pay the additional tithe. His Missions were non-profit, tax-exempt corporations, and Bridge had been separated from the Church and made into a for-profit corporation, and such donations would be illegal. Samuels was taken into a side room by eight members of the International Finance Police, and given a &quot;Gang Sec Check.&quot; He was threatened with a &quot;Suppressive declare&quot; if he did not make &quot;personal payments to L. Ron Hubbard.&quot; So he handed over $20,000 and a $10,000 wrist watch to a Finance Policeman.

Samuels&#039; access to his Missions&#039; bank accounts was frozen. His wife was warned that she would have to &quot;disconnect&quot; from him if he was declared Suppressive. He was ordered to Flag, in Florida, to undergo more Security Checks, for which he had to pay $300 an hour.

Within a month Martin Samuels had paid $40,000 to the Scientology Church. This still was not enough, and he was ordered to the International Finance Police Ethics Officer at Flag. At the meeting, Samuels was told he had been declared Suppressive, and shown the confession of a Scientology executive who had admitted to being a transvestite with homosexual tendencies. Samuels claims that he was ordered to publicly confess to &quot;acts that were similarly degrading.&quot; Otherwise the Church would file both civil and criminal prosecutions against him that would keep him &quot;tied up in court forever.&quot; He was also warned that he would be watched and the Church would &quot;keep tabs on him forever.&quot;

Samuels refused to demean himself by signing a fictitious confession, even though his Missions were now in the hands of the Church, and he had surrendered control of his personal accounts. The Scientologists now launched their campaign in earnest. Samuels&#039; wife, family, business associates and friends were told he had stolen funds from his Missions, and that he was &quot;insane&quot; and an enemy of the Church of Scientology .

The Suppressive declare was published, and Samuels&#039; wife left him, taking the children with her. She &quot;disconnected&quot; and started divorce proceedings. His children were told he was a &quot;criminal and would probably be going to jail in the near future.&quot; Scientologist business associates and friends were ordered to disconnect from him or be declared Suppressive themselves. Even Samuels&#039; stockbroker, who was a Scientologist, was ordered to disconnect, and refused to take instructions to sell stock. As he had been declared, Samuels was told he must leave his sister&#039;s house, where he was staying, or she too would be declared Suppressive.

In a few weeks, Samuels had lost the business he had built up over thirteen years, with an annual turnover of millions of dollars. His seventeen year marriage was destroyed, and he was deprived of his possessions. Samuels felt like a college kid again, rolling up penniless on his parents&#039; doorstep. He responded by filing a lawsuit against Hubbard in 1983, claiming damages of $72 million. A jury awarded $30 million, and the Scientologists appealed the decision. The case was finally settled in 1986 with an out of court payment of $500,000 to Samuels.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63181">Margaret</a>.</p>
<p>COB sure gave the great Martin Samuels a cornholing. Lots of similarities with Al Capone, this &#8220;Cornholio Cob.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/samuels1.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/samuels1.html</a></p>
<p>Jon Atack: &#8220;A Piece of Blue Sky &#8211; Chapter 2: The Scientology War&#8221;</p>
<p>Martin Samuels was a legend among Scientologists. He ran a chain of five Missions. The Church&#8217;s magazine Center, devoted to the Mission network, was always heavy with praise for Samuels. A 1975 issue says that in a single year 3,000 new people started the Communication Course in Samuels&#8217; Missions. His Missions usually came out at the top in the quarterly Mission statistics, even taken individually. In Center 23, Martin Samuels was &#8220;Particularly COMMENDED&#8221; for his &#8220;brilliant application.&#8221; Out of the fifty listed, his Sacramento, Portland and Davis Missions were the top three in the Center &#8220;Award of Merit&#8221; contest for that quarter.<br />
In early 1970s, Samuels started the Delphian Project. It began as a center for research into Alternative Energy, but a school, the Delphian Foundation, was established for the children of Project staff. The school used Hubbard&#8217;s &#8220;Study Technology.&#8221; It soon generated interest from other Scientologists, so the school became Delphi&#8217;s main activity. By the time of the Mission Holders&#8217; Conference Samuels had twelve schools, with over 600 pupils.</p>
<p>Scientology Missions report various performance statistics to the Church every week. The Mission income figures are listed and distributed to Mission Holders to show which are most successful. For the first week of September 1982, just before the Conference, the total income of the eighty or so Missions throughout the world was $808,435. For the U.S. Missions it was $643,737, and Samuels&#8217; Missions made up $172,825 of that. Which is to say they represented over a quarter of the U.S. Missions income, and over a fifth of the worldwide income. Incidentally, Kingsley Wimbush&#8217;s major Mission made $154,101 that week. So between them Samuels and Wimbush accounted for more than half of the U.S. Missions income. Ten percent of this was paid straight to the Church.</p>
<p>But at the end of the Mission Holders&#8217; Conference Samuels spoke out. On top of their normal ten percent tithe to the Scientology Church, the Mission Holders had been ordered to pay five percent for a promotional campaign to Bridge Publications. Samuels explained that he could not pay the additional tithe. His Missions were non-profit, tax-exempt corporations, and Bridge had been separated from the Church and made into a for-profit corporation, and such donations would be illegal. Samuels was taken into a side room by eight members of the International Finance Police, and given a &#8220;Gang Sec Check.&#8221; He was threatened with a &#8220;Suppressive declare&#8221; if he did not make &#8220;personal payments to L. Ron Hubbard.&#8221; So he handed over $20,000 and a $10,000 wrist watch to a Finance Policeman.</p>
<p>Samuels&#8217; access to his Missions&#8217; bank accounts was frozen. His wife was warned that she would have to &#8220;disconnect&#8221; from him if he was declared Suppressive. He was ordered to Flag, in Florida, to undergo more Security Checks, for which he had to pay $300 an hour.</p>
<p>Within a month Martin Samuels had paid $40,000 to the Scientology Church. This still was not enough, and he was ordered to the International Finance Police Ethics Officer at Flag. At the meeting, Samuels was told he had been declared Suppressive, and shown the confession of a Scientology executive who had admitted to being a transvestite with homosexual tendencies. Samuels claims that he was ordered to publicly confess to &#8220;acts that were similarly degrading.&#8221; Otherwise the Church would file both civil and criminal prosecutions against him that would keep him &#8220;tied up in court forever.&#8221; He was also warned that he would be watched and the Church would &#8220;keep tabs on him forever.&#8221;</p>
<p>Samuels refused to demean himself by signing a fictitious confession, even though his Missions were now in the hands of the Church, and he had surrendered control of his personal accounts. The Scientologists now launched their campaign in earnest. Samuels&#8217; wife, family, business associates and friends were told he had stolen funds from his Missions, and that he was &#8220;insane&#8221; and an enemy of the Church of Scientology .</p>
<p>The Suppressive declare was published, and Samuels&#8217; wife left him, taking the children with her. She &#8220;disconnected&#8221; and started divorce proceedings. His children were told he was a &#8220;criminal and would probably be going to jail in the near future.&#8221; Scientologist business associates and friends were ordered to disconnect from him or be declared Suppressive themselves. Even Samuels&#8217; stockbroker, who was a Scientologist, was ordered to disconnect, and refused to take instructions to sell stock. As he had been declared, Samuels was told he must leave his sister&#8217;s house, where he was staying, or she too would be declared Suppressive.</p>
<p>In a few weeks, Samuels had lost the business he had built up over thirteen years, with an annual turnover of millions of dollars. His seventeen year marriage was destroyed, and he was deprived of his possessions. Samuels felt like a college kid again, rolling up penniless on his parents&#8217; doorstep. He responded by filing a lawsuit against Hubbard in 1983, claiming damages of $72 million. A jury awarded $30 million, and the Scientologists appealed the decision. The case was finally settled in 1986 with an out of court payment of $500,000 to Samuels.</p>
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		<title>
		By: indie8million		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63434</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[indie8million]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 14:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=19975#comment-63434</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63181&quot;&gt;Margaret&lt;/a&gt;.

MJ - and this would be COB&#039;s stage show. &quot;I am the Great Cornholio Cob!&quot;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKP-bVViPX8]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63181">Margaret</a>.</p>
<p>MJ &#8211; and this would be COB&#8217;s stage show. &#8220;I am the Great Cornholio Cob!&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKP-bVViPX8" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKP-bVViPX8</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Chuck Beatty		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63388</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck Beatty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 04:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=19975#comment-63388</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Big shifting moves like this LA Org re-manning means someone will be surfacing to tell what&#039;s going on shortly, someone will blow and surface with new news.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Big shifting moves like this LA Org re-manning means someone will be surfacing to tell what&#8217;s going on shortly, someone will blow and surface with new news.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chuck Beatty		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63387</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck Beatty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 04:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=19975#comment-63387</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One good thing about these 100 Sea Org members coming to LA Org, is it will be easier for them to blow.


I hope some long term Sea Org members take this LA Org future failing fake Ideal Org opportunity to blow and then surface, and hopefully they find their way to Mike Rinder&#039;s blog and then inform the world of their descent and life at this new LA Org before they quit.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One good thing about these 100 Sea Org members coming to LA Org, is it will be easier for them to blow.</p>
<p>I hope some long term Sea Org members take this LA Org future failing fake Ideal Org opportunity to blow and then surface, and hopefully they find their way to Mike Rinder&#8217;s blog and then inform the world of their descent and life at this new LA Org before they quit.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Foolproof		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63372</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Foolproof]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 02:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=19975#comment-63372</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63116&quot;&gt;Themoreyouknow&lt;/a&gt;.

Espiando - ok, understood. All I am saying is that I think you are wasting your time trying to convince most people on this board that the tech does not work. It&#039;s like me saying to you that your psych drugs don&#039;t work - but I am not saying that to you (even if presumably some in the Church have done in the past). You have your beliefs and me mine. I believe that the main impetus of this board is to point out the anti-social atrocities committed by some so-called &quot;Scientologists&quot; on other &quot;Scientologists&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63116">Themoreyouknow</a>.</p>
<p>Espiando &#8211; ok, understood. All I am saying is that I think you are wasting your time trying to convince most people on this board that the tech does not work. It&#8217;s like me saying to you that your psych drugs don&#8217;t work &#8211; but I am not saying that to you (even if presumably some in the Church have done in the past). You have your beliefs and me mine. I believe that the main impetus of this board is to point out the anti-social atrocities committed by some so-called &#8220;Scientologists&#8221; on other &#8220;Scientologists&#8221;.</p>
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		By: mimsey		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/ideal-orgs-some-inconvenient-truths/#comment-63371</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mimsey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 02:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=19975#comment-63371</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Cindy, this has NEVER happened in a NSO Class V org before. ASHO &#038; AOLA were SO orgs from their inception and just had some contracted NSO tech staff which was off policy at that time anyway.&quot;

Sorry - AOLA was started by a SO mission in the late 70&#039;s when the &quot;flight to freedom&quot; got stopped in England. SH sent it&#039;s own mission (all NSO) to form ASHO - they camped out on LA Org on 9th street until they got their building on Temple, then moved there. It was subsequently turned into SO.  AOLA was up and running way before the ASHO mission left England.  AO found they didn&#039;t have any public, so they raided LAO&#039;s mimeo files and set up a briefing course till the ASHO mission arrived and took it over..

Mimsey]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Cindy, this has NEVER happened in a NSO Class V org before. ASHO &amp; AOLA were SO orgs from their inception and just had some contracted NSO tech staff which was off policy at that time anyway.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry &#8211; AOLA was started by a SO mission in the late 70&#8217;s when the &#8220;flight to freedom&#8221; got stopped in England. SH sent it&#8217;s own mission (all NSO) to form ASHO &#8211; they camped out on LA Org on 9th street until they got their building on Temple, then moved there. It was subsequently turned into SO.  AOLA was up and running way before the ASHO mission left England.  AO found they didn&#8217;t have any public, so they raided LAO&#8217;s mimeo files and set up a briefing course till the ASHO mission arrived and took it over..</p>
<p>Mimsey</p>
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