Thanks, mwestern. Even though 10 years have passed since I’m out I’m still on my own “inward” journey out of Scientology …no doubt many long term Still Ins can relate…and info like this and much of what you and others in various ways share can be very helpful in gaining another perspective, another viewpoint from which to look so as to really understand, and with understanding if not agreement, let go.

I’ll say this: the cherch in a number of ways is REALLY suppressive to “the 2nd Dynamic” but nowadays they sure do their bit to entice and induce public to attend events using food. Pictures of food, descriptions of food, etc. Exes like me missed out because at most events I attended the food was cheap carb crap – maybe they wised up?
Like, “Sex is pain and degraded, engage in it if you absolutely must, although we’d rather you didn’t, but look, we’re offering you this wonderful food, go ahead, stuff yourself, we want you to…”

Thanks again 🙂 I’ll watch this asap and get back to you to you about it.

Right. I agree. Tom Cruise is probably a pretty decent guy apart from the cult. There are times that I wonder if he has had enough of the Church, Miscavige and everything associated with it. What would it take for him to make that break? I sometimes envision him coming to me and asking me to help him leave the church and reconnect with Katie and Suri. And I see myself doing it.

Yes, if he can’t have it nobody can have it!

Aqua, your mention of food reminded me of a speech the lovely Stephen Fry gave a few years back. It’s from a debate on the catholic church but this particular quote easily applies to scientology also.

“It’s the strange thing about this church: it is obsessed with sex. Absolutely obsessed! Now they will say we, with our permissive society and our rude jokes, are obsessed. No! We have a healthy attitude. We like it. It’s fun. It’s jolly. Because it’s a primary impulse, it can be dangerous and dark and difficult – it’s a bit like food in that respect, only even more exciting. The only people who are obsessed with food are anorexics and the morbidly obese. And that, in erotic terms, is the Catholic Church in a nutshell.”

From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRcYaAYWg4

Stephen’s portion starts at around 47:30 – but the whole thing is worth a watch.

I’ve known and do know a few minor celebrities, mainly in the sports/fly fishing world. Great people, but to the way I see them, part of their lives is beyond their control because of social media. They have to be extremely careful of what they say or do.
Apparently the more famous you become, the less of a real life you have, or privacy can become a real issue. Bob Dylan went totally affect of the massive attention he got.
TC made his own bed, and now he has to lie in it. His involvement in the cult is pretty much complete. Just the recorded crap he dribbled on about for the world to see & hear and his close association with Miscaivge is as good a life sentence.
You can’t fix stupid. I really don’t think he a very bright individual anyway and for way too long has relied on others to do his thinking for him.
He means nothing to me personally except for the damage he does promoting the cult. If there was a formula for him to get out of it, it would have to be involved with the downfall of Miscavige of which he could not be connected with.
Funny, but it just made me think of Stalin when the Nazis invaded Russia. He believed the lies of Hitler and when he realized he was betrayed he locked himself away for a week or two. In his case he was a sociopath anyway but when he came out he was twice as ruthless.
TC could play the sympathy card if Miscavige goes down, probably his only way out. But he still has to live with himself and his stupidity.

And I’m still laughing. You do have a knack for amusing pith.

OMG…omg…LOL! Talk about “Too Gruesome”mwestern. Thanks for the laugh. I really needed it. Still laughing, actually!

Look, I’ve shared that I didn’t understand LRH’s vilification of sex. Because all sex is is duplication of the human body. Obviously it would have to be pleasurable or who would bother doing it? The human race would have died out a long time ago if sex were not a driving force.

Of course what’s tricky is we’re NOT just animals although we have “animal” bodies, and sexual impulses and drives, etc., are or can be purely animal-like…and at times at variance with our mental and emotional needs – at least I know as a woman this sort of thing occurs. But that doesn’t make it of itself wrong or bad or on a level with physical pain.

Hubbard putting sex on the same level as pain is to me a HUGE generality. He might as well have equated EATING with pain. Made eating a degraded action.

Of course, sex CAN be degraded and so can eating, if they’re overdone or abused, etc., certainly there’s gluttony and there’s selfish and exploitive promiscuity etc. but we’re not talking about these extremes.

Point being I strongly disagree on Hubbard’s saying ALL sex is degraded and on a level with pain. Its not true.

Absolutely! Indeed, the only way HCOB Pain & Sex makes sense is when it’s read “in the valence” of an old, grumpy bastard; an elderly, embittered sci-fi nerd, with aches, pains and a lifeless pecker.

😳

Yes, its a small bubble but frankly, what else can they do? Many years ago in the early 80s (before I got into Scientology or even knew anything about it) I visited friends in Holiday, Florida. They took us to Clearwater Beach (gorgeous). Afterwards we drove thru downtown CW. From what I could see there wasn’t much happening, and that was THEN before the cult took over downtown. Not that we were disappointed; we weren’t there to shop or to go to clubs! We were visiting family friends who had retired, they had a cute house with a pool, we wanted to relax and unwind and drink orange juice and swim. I was enthralled with CW Beach – the pure white sand, that refreshing clean salt water. But then, for Tom Cruise, movie star – I don’t know, I can’t see him there for some reason, unless he thinks of it purely as a “bedroom” community home, a place where he pit stops between acting jobs in other locations and every so often appears at Flag Graduations or other events to give the cultees a thrill.

Alcoboy, my take is that yes, he loves and cares about his daughter, and probably misses her, possibly misses her acutely at times, and would in his heart of hearts love to reconnect with her. All of the above – except…just not enough. My take is that STRONGER than any of the above emotions is his adherence to making decisions based upon “The Greatest Good For the Greatest Number of Dynamics”. He’s not a monster. Being in the cult for decades has made him into a kind of circuit, a thought stopping, emotion-blotting out circuit. He’s a cult creature now, a kind of “thing” that looks human but who doesn’t (or shouldn’t) think, does not (or should not ) feel, and mustn’t (or should never) act in any way that would not “further” the interests of the cult.

Again, I don’t know him and this is purely my opinion. What happened to him, how being in the cult transformed him is what has happened, I believe to many long term Scientologists who make decisions about their families (and everything in their lives) based on “Greatest Good”. The greatest good is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS what will most benefit/protect/expand the cult, and if that is acceptable and comfortable to the individual Scientologist or staff or Sea Org member, fine, but if its not, well, that’s just too bad; the cult’s best interest comes first, always, and the individual Scientologist does not get to decide what the cult’s best interest is. No, the Scientologist is TOLD via Scientology Ethics what the “Greatest Good” IS, and that is that, and what his or her decision MUST be, and that is THAT! AND they are told – it is carefully explained – that this “Greatest Good” decision will benefit even those who are being disconnected from (if its a disconnection issue). No matter what havoc a greatest good decision wreaks upon the lives of Scientologists, their families, their businesses, they are told, they are assured, they are CONVINCED by Ethics that eventually ALL will benefit.