Wynski, full time staff may indeed be that low – it more or less fits with the direct observations I’ve made, though most of the year I now live far from any org so I can’t readily make extended observations. One org in a good sized city had clear signs that a total of 24 to 30 people were on staff or were volunteers working there, whether full time or just a few hours regularly – that in a fair sized metro area where an insider had said there where 50 to 60 active members and about as many more who would come in for a few special events.

Can you or someone explain what’s up with all the positions that must be filled part-time, then? We have the evidence from the Quebec labor case, for instance, that over some period a fairly large number of people were hourly workers at some level. I even asked the person who posted the St. Louis staff list about a breakdown, but I don’t think I ever got a response.

p.s. Mike, if you ever have a chance to piggyback on some relevant piece, or even an insider account, I’d love to see a call for info on what’s actually going on inside local orgs, such as we got a fair bit of a while back with St. Louis. And thanks for all you do.

Peacemaker. I’m talking about what shows up on video surveillance or by Mark I eyeballs. Go to those orgs (other than the SO manned ones) and DOCUMENT (not repeating CoS crap) those staff.

Also, you CANNOT count them when DM is ready to yank the ribbon OBVIOUSLY, smh. Go there 6 months later to get a TRUE picture.

Waiting for you to bring back evidence of REAL staff bodies (part time counts as 1/2) working. It is easy. Just watch them arrive for work and leave. Takes one day

Isn’t he, though? Not funny like ‘haha’, but funny in a really sad way.

Despite his endless shit talking and willful blindness, I truly hope he wakes the hell up some day.

Cindy, I’m not going to speak for Eh=Eh, but it was this way for me. When I bailed out of the cult for good in the late 80s I was still thinking that the ‘tech’ worked. The natural place to turn at that time was to David Mayo. I considered doing that for a short time, but decided to give myself a complete break from the subject instead. Getting that space and getting out into nature was enough to break the bonds that the counterfeit dream* had on me. I finally realized that the whole thing was a scam. I did this pretty much on my own with no way to verify my hunches. There was no internet for me at that time. Later I was able to see that everything I suspected was wrong with the cult was actually valid as a result of internet searches. Many people still cling to the hope that the ‘tech’ will be of benefit for them. However, Indies and Freezoners may be the only ‘squirrel groups’ out there that are probably doing even worse than the mother cult itself. I don’t know of any of these groups who are actually expanding. If the ‘tech’ worked even a fraction of what is claimed, these groups would be expanding at a mad rate. They aren’t.

*Thanks Jefferson Hawkins for such an apt phrase.

Wynski, I know that some org boards have about two dozen names on them. And in Quebec, Scientology claimed to have 70 staff, and was recently forced to give back pay to 62 people.

It seems that there are more people than might be obvious who at least have some sort of paid status, even if they’re only part timers – and then perhaps volunteers on top of that. And the Quebec settlement wouldn’t have included FSMs, though Scientology’s claims of staffing levels might.

I’ve seen some evidence for full time staffing in the range that half a dozen or so, at least at some of the small and failing orgs in the midst of “ideal” campaigns, but no clear explanation of how the part time and volunteer staffing works then. The insider info we got about St. Louis, for instance, lists 23 people “still on staff”:

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/st-louis-follow-up/

Cindy – This is my general understanding and I don’t know how accurate it is. Mayo was a highly classed auditor and case supervisor, maybe the highest classed until Hubbard gave him the boot. Mayo started a splinter group in Santa Barbara, Ca. but Hubbard ran him out of business.

Maybe Mayo moved to Canada to get away from Hubbard and/or DM where Eh-Eh looked him up but decided he no longer had any interest in scientology.

PeaceMaker. By OBSERVATION in the USA the average Non- Sea Org seems to have about 5-6 FT staff. That is an average. Some may have 1 or 2 some 7-8. There are probaly NONE that have STABLY 25 staff that are not run directly by the SO. Even Vally org only has a handful of staff even tough run by SO members from CLO WUS that actually sit in that org.

Richard, there are definitely around 140 local orgs with verifiable locations in larger cities around the world (with about 45 in the US), plus the various higher-level orgs on top of that. Missions are another story; most have disappeared, and of the small number Scientology still lists, many are only hanging on by a thread, or even closed and not yet written off (St. Petersburg shut down this summer).

Any way you look at it, the ratio of active members to staff and full-time workers is extreme nowadays. And in the case of the “ideal” facilities, there is more largely empty square footage per active member, than many of the members actually have to live in! (if you figure 50 active members and a 50,000 square foot building, 1,000 square feet is larger than the average apartment)

It’s an interesting question as to whether Miscavige is actually aware how bad it is – you’re right, it’s typical that totalitarian leaders end up being fed information with a positive spin by fearful underlings. There are reports that Scientology at least used to know how many members were really active taking courses and attending events – but that’s probably now affected by the number who are UTR and just going through the motions, and who will leave if they get a chance.

PeaceMaker – Is 140 orgs worldwide a factual number or an estimate? Any numbers or statistics published by the CofS are worthless. Miscavige himself might not know the actual number of active members since subordinates might be feeding him fudged numbers to keep him happy. He would probably know most of the financial numbers but even much of that he may put in the hands of accounts and be given summaries.

Richard, staff numbers could be extremely high if you figure that each org seems to be supposed to have at least around 25 staff, which over about 140 orgs worldwide means about 3,500. Then current estimates are 3,000 to 3,500 Sea Org, meaning a total workforce possibly as high as 7,000, or more than half the membership!

This is one area I can’t get a good handle on, just how many of what seems to be an average of about 25 staff positions per org, are actually full time, and just how that relates to truly active local membership that seems to be running around perhaps 50 people average as reflected in the photos we see, and reports that orgs have a total of maybe 100 people or a few more on the rolls who show up at least occasionally. It sounds like in some cases perhaps as few as 3 or 4 staff are really full-time, and maybe 12-18 people total hold multiple positions.

That’s certainly a change from the old days, and one of the reasons Scientology is so expensive; it’s become so cumbersome that the ratio of members to workers is ridiculous, whether its 1:1, 1:2 or even just 1:6 (in most churches, for support staff exclusive of ministers it’s about 1:100). While those working full-time barely get paid, that still adds up and then there are still all sorts of costs for having workers, especially the Sea Org who get room and board and medical care.