My goodness, it doesn’t matter whether it’s old or new OTVIII. It’s all the same bullshit anyway.

Chuck, thanks for your comment.
Before scientology. I thought I had a soul (brought up Catholic). My mother told me, more than once, that if I were bad, my soul would go to hell. I told her, what do I give a shit as long as I don’t have to go.

One of the very first things I read from hubbard was that I was my own soul (thetan). Big difference it made for me.

I was a course sup and several students had experienced exteriorization while on course. In one case. the person became quite upset. I sent her to my favorite auditor to check her for out-int. She did the int rundown and when she came out of session, she ran out into the course room and put her arms around me and said, “Wow, how did you know?”

In the beginning (1969) there was enough there to convince me that there was a lot I did not know. I got to know a lot of OTs who were willing to share their experiences with me. OT II was a big deal for them at that time.

LRH phased himself out and david miscavige took over.

As a result, scientology has gone in the tank. I have read many of the wins since then and they sound like total bullshit only so that they can start the next level to, hopefully, solve the problem that they came into scientology for in the first place.

Doing scientology was tough back then. My twin and I did more than 500 hours of TR 0 the hard way. Ten hours per day, seven days per week, for two months, blinkless. People were taking so long that the “Blinkless” was removed. I think Otto Roos may have been involved in that decision.

When I finally did it, it seemed like only minutes. I realised that the only way it could be done was by being in present time, time stands still. Later, I thought that the minutes were the periods I must have gone out of pt.

Today, scientology is bullshit. I’m only glad I went in when there was some gain to be had.

Thanks Peabody. Your experience is in line with practically all experiences I’ve heard of exteriorization.

I had a misconception, a false misconception, I thought the soul (we each are the soul that runs our body definition that Hubbard gives in the “Parts of Man” chapter in Scientology: Fundamentals of Thought book), us, the soul, I presumed that one had visio all the time, when “exterior.”

Today I believe the out of the body experience is an hallucination, and I forever was barking up the wrong tree for some some state of being exterior with full perception.

Clearly, Hubbard has not been clear about the soul being exterior, and I jumped in with my misconceptions that drew me along all the years I presumed OT Scientologists were exteriorizing at will, at the upper levels.

It’s a messy bunch of misconceptions, I’ll admit supplying my own hopes that this misconceived “exterior with full perception” I exaggerated hopefully as the goal to attain from Scientology.

False hopes (misconceived on top of it) died hard for me.

Secretfornow, good comment. The staff at Flag were love bombing you. They have so few public to service that anyone who comes in now has to be fawned over and held onto cuz they can’t afford more defections. The staff IMHO are out of valence and in a fakey, put on high tone level. I imagine their real tone level is one of desperation and apathy and despair.

Don’t give DM any more ideas, Mary. He’ll get rick off your idea.

I had a friend in college once tell me that she’d had an “OBE”–out-of-body experience. I thought, ‘Huh. That’s interesting, I guess.’ I never had the slightest desire to have it happen to me, and it befuddles me that people adopt it as such a compelling (and fucking expensive) goal.

No judgment intended. I’m just completely not grokking any of it.

I pinned a lot of hopes on someone else’s description of being exterior. I now file such things under, “something someone said”.

“You poop pink Unicorns? cool. Let me know if any of them ever sticks around long enough to see them” Until then..I’ll be over here doing something else.

chuckbeatty77

I’ll probably get attacked for saying this, but I was able to exteriorize when I was 8 years old. This was before any drugs, medications, alcohol, or anything else that wasn’t supposed to be in my body. I had full perception (sight and sound). I was wide awake. I thought everyone could do this, so I never told anyone. I never left the confines of my bedroom and, thinking about it now, I don’t know why I didn’t try.

Many years later, I read about exteriorization from Hubbard and that is the reason I got involved with scientology. I wanted to be stably exterior at will. That was my stable datum that scientology worked.

So, I spent the next 40 years and several hundred thousand dollars trying to get to the place I was able to go prior to scientology.

While I was being audited, the auditor would get reads on ‘Out Int’ and I would be audited on the Int Rundown. This happened over and over. Something was wrong. I did not have a problem with exteriorization or interiorization. But I would be interrogated about “not able to get back in”. In my mind, I may have thought that “Out-Int” meant exterior hence the read but I became really confused about not being able to get back in.

Scientology couldn’t help, even after I told my auditors that rehabilitating my ability to exteriorize was my hidden standard that would prove to me that scientology worked.

Chuck says all he wants is convincing proof that ANYONE in human history can actively exteriorize, live, and demonstrate it convincingly.

From my perspective, that can never happen because his statement is a “prove me wrong” statement. I could not ever be stably exterior at will. The state, for me, was very fragile. I could never do it if I “tried”. It would just happen. I could see every detail in the ceiling corner of the room from one inch away, which was 8 feet from the floor. The experience was just as real as me sitting here typing it up.

I write this not to prove anything but only relay a personal experience which might open one’s mind to the possibility.

Missed withhold? How about, big fat lie. Starts with Ron’s own history, all the way through to his alcohol and pill popping…to his paranoid hiding out with Visteral having to be shot in his ass to keep him calm before the heart attack in his van he hid in. His military record as well as embellishment of his life…a lie.
Mysterious deaths. I got into Sea Org at LA base a gal for Flag. She was part of Lisa McPherson Fort Harrison death. She was scared to death ( was an ex nurse). Most staff who were part of it were quickly and quietly fitness boarded out. They got away with murder, btw.
When they got rid of a particular auditor…the huge SP, the one who audited Ron…that’s when all changes started. “New tech” on the old tech, redoing what was done, L’s, which are actually from already ot levels. But…no actual “next” OT level. Why? Probably because, 1: Ron was too far gone 2: They got rid of real auditor .
Ron was heavily into occult. His son mentioned there was either scientology or satanism in the house.
I’m pretty sure Ron at some point of the bridge has lessened Jesus and elevated “the light bearer”, which would be Satan.
I was amused that a cognition could be indexed to a card file for each audited thing to see the “ep”. My red flags were going crazy at Flag. You go in to get past life folder…”there was a fire”…SO members telling me of upset having to re-audit from beginning. They had no new stuff…hell, the old stuff was so filled with lies.
Auditing is a type of hypnosis, auditor is in control…unfortunately, the end result was not a freed up person. I have never met any audited person, of any level, who was any different than any other person. They were lighter…of their cash.
I hope you’re out of the clubhouse. I spoke to Mike Rinder as well as Debbi Cook awhile back (knew them when I was working ias and recruit help at LA base and Flag)…Mike made a point that folks should just write their own SP declare…send to Miscavige. BTW…he’s an evil prick, aggressive bully.
So many lies, deception, control games, children abused as well as marriages ended that didn’t conform to scientology goals.
Remember Henry with IAS? Last I saw him he was in RPF. Crime? Had cancer. Final? At end routed him out with $100, and no place to go. Died shortly afterwards, homeless.
My time in Scientology was just wasted time. Mike and I look back as, “what a huge mistake, but at least we met”.
Hope you’re out and doing well.

ARC=U is a theory that hasn’t been tested. I don’t think that it would withstand real testing either.