I got your point ; thank you.

TC

“Thanks TC. I enjoyed the Purif immensely. It certainly did me no harm. Getting 8 hours of sleep and exercising every day was amazing. ”

TC : You are most welcome, and yes, I know what you mean.

“As I mentioned to Brandy Zadrony when she was doing the story on the Purif Program for Vets that appeared in the Daily Beast: just the sauna, sleep, exercise and vitamins is likely going to improve the health and outlook of anyone. ”

TC : I very much agree with that. However, I feel that Sauna therapy is a field on its own, and one that is almost as old as civilization itself. The theory that many fat soluble toxins get store in the adipose tissue is not LRH’s original idea by a long ways. This belief in the field that this idea was originated with LRH just show a poor research of the subject. Many of LRH’s ideas on that as well as on nutrition , he took it from the late Adelle Davis and other nutrition researchers. The theory that profuse swrating in a sauna help detox the body of impurities is also a VERY old idea. Indians used this principle to “purify the spirt” as they called it. Here are some links on Sauna therapy and its history :

http://www.lymebook.com/history-of-sauna-therapy

http://www.lymebook.com/sauna-mercury-pesticides-hydrobarbon-drug-detox

http://drlwilson.com/articles/sauna_therapy.htm

http://www.cyberbohemia.com/Pages/historyofnordic.htm

“And there is also the placebo effect of every “treatment” whether drug or regimen.”

TC : Yes, that’s very true, but let’s not overlook the fact that the improved cases are just too many to just explain them as the placebo effect. I alone handled hundreds of cases with a direct and daily accumulation of observable empirical data. As I said before, most of those cases were not even Scientologists yet, so they weren’t still influenced to any marked degree by Scn’s cult(ish) nature. In fact, they were still testing.

” To be scientific, the vet study should have a comparative group —people going in the sauna and exercising and taking no vitamins and niacin and oil. ANd the results should be measured not just in “I feel better” though you could certainly do that if you had comparative arms of the study, but with bllod and urine tests to determine changes during the course of the regimen. ”

TC : There should be a third group just exercising and taking vits (except niacin) but with no sauna therapy at all. And a fourth group following the program as outlined but w/out the niacin. The participants should be ideally people with no prior experience with Scn, and a lot better if they have never heard of it. No explanation of the program should be given to them so as to eliminate any exterior influence. So for me, it should be 4 groups, 30 participants in each group at least , totally ignorant of the purpose of the experiment, and totally ignorant of Scn. That should do it.

“Of course, they spent nearly $700,000 and “didn’t have any money” to do blood tests for the VA “study.” What a joke.”

TC : You mean the mighty Church didn’t have any money to fully fund it ? A cult never has money for public research, dear Mike.

“I wonder if people taking large doses of niacin without ANY OTHER of the elements of the Purif program would also get the same sort of reactions. Outlines of bathing suites. And less and less reaction as the tolerance increased? Who knows.”

TC : Yeah, who knows ? May be the niacin is not a vital element per se.

” Nobody connected to scientology is EVER going to conduct any real study for fear of what the results will show.”

TC : That’s a fact. It goes against being a cult.

“Happy people get results from the Purif. Sweat Lodges have been around for a long time and I suspect there is benefit to them.”

TC : They have been around for thousands of years , in fact. See the links.

Best regard,
TC

Hallucinogenic substances produce intense body rushes as do fasting, sitting in a sauna and sometimes meditation. Those sensations are intrinsic to an electrically charged nervous system and can be interpreted in many ways just like an inkblot picture. Once when tripping on mushrooms with a friend, he said he felt like bugs were crawling all over him while I felt like I was dissolving into the air around me. Same sensations, different experience.

Thanks TC. I enjoyed the Purif immensely. It certainly did me no harm. Getting 8 hours of sleep and exercising every day was amazing. As I mentioned to Brandy Zadrony when she was doing the story on the Purif Program for Vets that appeared in the Daily Beast: just the sauna, sleep, exercise and vitamins is likely going to improve the health and outlook of anyone. And there is also the placebo effect of every “treatment” whether drug or regimen. To be scientific, the vet study should have a comparative group — people going in the sauna and exercising and taking no vitamins and niacin and oil. ANd the results should be measured not just in “I feel better” though you could certainly do that if you had comparative arms of the study, but with bllod and urine tests to determine changes during the course of the regimen. Of course, they spent nearly $700,000 and “didn’t have any money” to do blood tests for the VA “study.” What a joke.

I wonder if people taking large doses of niacin without ANY OTHER of the elements of the Purif program would also get the same sort of reactions. Outlines of bathing suites. And less and less reaction as the tolerance increased? Who knows. Nobody connected to scientology is EVER going to conduct any real study for fear of what the results will show.

Happy people get results from the Purif. Sweat Lodges have been around for a long time and I suspect there is benefit to them.

Almost all of them felt incredible better after such an experience. I handled lots of cases during years. In several ocassions I saw how a bathing suit that the person had used years , sometimes decades ago, was right there marked on his body while experiencing the symptoms of sun burns ; then after 2-4 periods inside the sauna totally going away with the person originating feeling more alert, energetic, “awake” , and with a general feeling on increased well being.

I used to have many allergies when I was a kid, and took dozens of medications for it that would leave me feeling doped up and mentally dull. I had also consumed lots of alcohol. During my own purif I had incredible reactions. The exact ones that I felt when I was under the influence of those drugs and alcohol. It was a hell. After 21-22 days my body felt VERY different. My energy levels had increased very markedly. My alertness had changed a lot as well. I felt lighter and more healthty. Something definitively had changed for the better.

Do I believe in all those claims the the CofS put out, and the principles upon which the program is alledgedly based ? Not necessarily. I believe in scientific tests and about sharing our findings with other researchers so that my claims can be verified and tested by others. That’s what I believe in. But the accumulated empirical data to which I was a witness of, I just can’t brush it all off, and write it off as a “delusion” I had when I was a member of the cult. My experiences were VERY real.

So my point is that YES, the program needs to undergo scientific tests, and yes, it must be done using strict scientific methodologies, with accumulated empirical data that others can inspect by themselves. But to just invalidate the program, ANY program, just because it came from LRH or whoever the hell it comes from, is not proper science neither.

My ¢2 cents.

TC

Hi Aquamarine,Thank you from my heart,you are a shining star.Am I ever happy and grateful to have had the dawn break in on me so I could see the path out from that crowd of very strange folks playing a strange and dangerous game back then.Love U Always Ann.

Lawrence,

All cancer is caused by a specialized form of engrams in the GE section of the brain that Hubbard did not find.

He admitted to that in a couple of places in dianetics.

Dio

Kemist>

Your post on NAFLD and not recommending over does of niacin is correct in my opinion. High does of niacin is very dangerous. And should only be administered by persons highly trained and competent in body chemistry and supplement chemistry.

My hypothesis on the cause of NAFLD is that it is at least party due to poor diet and emotional malnourishment.

Where the needs of emotional nourishment are substituted by food nourishment. Think emotional eating, comfort food and junk food. Especially in early childhood.

Incompetent or ignorant parenting. When baby is crying and needs emotional nourishment, and mother does not know what she is doing and or does not know what to do and comforts baby by giving some food that baby will like. From here on the brain adopts the program that when I need emotional nourishment and cannot get it, I will eat something that tastes good and makes me feel good.

Dio

Considering the incidence of NAFLD (Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease) is 1) extremely high these days (could be as high as 30% according to some studies) 2) asymptomatic until something, of which we have only some obscure guesses, makes it progress to full cirrhosis and liver failure, I would not advise overdoses of niacin to ANYONE, no matter their liver enzyme function results, infectious status, or medical history.

Mike very bright of you to point this out. Isn’t cancer preventable and curable through diet and proper nutrition? So I don’t know how anyone can consider that Bob Duggan and his fatwah drug are the new wave of help for Mankind, right? I mean, drugs are drugs, but if they are from me or you they are BAD, but if Bob Duggan gives you some then be all means it must be correct. It makes me feel like vomiting in the face of the Flag reg just sitting there 1.1 to say thank you to big donation Bob Duggan is giving. What a crock of butter eh? 🙂 I don’t want to say more than that at the moment. 🙂