Dear Enthralled,

You’re welcome. I am not interested in closing my eyes while I whistle past the graveyard. This is not what I am doing.

With that said, there are two data that I feel you are not considering in your broad assessment of this policy (which I truthfully don’t care a whole lot about, by the way) and how its application has effected SCN or its members.

Datum One — having been in SCN for 40+ years and having worked in very senior management, in Class V Orgs, in missions and at Narconon, I have extensive first hand experience of who has done what and why. In my opinion there are now more bona fide Scientologists OUTSIDE of the RCS than within it – no question in my mind. The vast majority of this group, DID NOT slavishly follow the Bolivar policy. And if they happened to have “fallen off the wagon” for a brief period, they quickly regained equilibrium and soon righted themselves. So, many more people, as I see it, never followed the Bolivar PL as you suggest. As a result of this, far fewer people today, are actually following this policy and others, and those that are, represent a much smaller percentage of Scientologists as a whole. So, in my opinion few people are actually affected by the robotic adherence to any datum, than ever before.

Datum Two — I have known directly and indirectly approx. 1500 Scientologists/staff over these 40+ years and this represents the body of knowledge from which I draw my conclusions. Thus, when I state that few peoples followed this policy blindly, that is my actual observation and I will stand by it.

This is merely one of many policies, suggestions, ideas, what-have-you, put forth by LRH, that some adherents grabbed like a life-preserver in two feet of water, and used, to beat back the saner and more reasoned approach of the majority. Therein, I believe, lies one of the greater outpoints (some might say tragedies) of our 3D. That we allowed a few over-reaching, myopically dedicated tyrants to rule the roost. My opinion of course, but I have witnessed a lot.

Let’s face it, there are words and passages within Bolivar that could be construed to condone violent behavior. However, as I peruse my recent track, I seem to recall passages in the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, the Zen of Motorcycle Maintenance, that have been construed to condone what, two millennia of violent and aberrant behavior.

There’s fault to be found in what LRH wrote and/or how he wrote certain works. There is far more fault to be found, in the Idiots and dead-from-the-neck-up zealots with agendas.

Odd

Gatchild,
This is a very interesting comment.
What I CAN understand is that one would wait with taking action until one had good certainty which side was honest and really pro-survival.

But let me ask you this: If you realize the ship you are on is sinking, would you just wait to see what was going to happen or grab a life boat and get row as fast as you can away from that ship?
Spectatorism in the first situation could well end in death, which, when dealing with a real SP is not an unlikely situation.
Greta

DollarMorgue

I try not to deal with an “if only” because they seldom create anything other than agita (heartburn). My statement was a simple comparison between the efficacy of Red-on-white vs. Green-on-white.

“It wasn’t done and common sense was ditched, not used.”

That’s correct but … so what? What exactly is the point being made?” If common sense was universally applied, Viet Nam wouldn’t have happened, Nixon wouldn’t have had his head up his ass, Clinton would have kept it in his pants and George W, Bush would have chosen Elmer Fudd as Vice President instead of Dick Cheney and gone after Weapons of Little or No Destruction..

I get it that we, the Church, all Scientologists and everyone associated with this religion could have done a better job — but thinking in this way, helps us how?

“Give red a try without the pressure on the PC to measure up to some over-the-top claim and see how he does in life. This is a time of honesty.”

The truth is, there are thousands of people who gave Red a chance and won – with or without the pressure.

But you’re right there have been over-the-top claims over the years; hyperbole for the sake of hyperbole and the net result was a muddled and muddied field. Thousands of people who got sidetracked on the BS.

What HAS to be differentiated though is the Tech versus the Hype. If you go DM=Scientology=The Tech= All there ever was — then essentially we’re F**ked because apparently then, we can’t have one without the other and in my opinion that is simply untrue.

If you listened to LRH tapes from throughout the 1950s, he’s over-the-moon in love with the potentials of SCN. But can anyone blame him? It would be like Edison have 317 electric lights in his house after he perfected the light bulb.

If he claimed a thetan could unmock a house or a city, was he delusional, or was he thinking in the context of the potential as he saw it in 1952? And does this invalidate what came next? I say no. He kept at it. 500 hours of Book One auditing became 100 hours of Creative Processing became 15 hours of Dianetics and engram running and so on for the same level of case gain. It kept getting better and more refined and easier to do.

Who’s to say what full OT means. Was Da Vinci OT? What about Queen Elizabeth I? Michelangelo or Newton, or Mother Teresa or Martin Luther King? OT in my book means meeting or exceeding one’s expectations and abilities given certain environmental factors that tend to create resistance to that progress.

Not trying to be pedantic — at all. Just feel strongly about the efficacy of the Tech and to insist (if I may) that LRH was just a man — brilliant in his own way, flawed in his own way. You know, like everyone else.

Odd

There is not one word or sentiment of ‘love’ in the essay regarding Bolivar… so best stick to what is written and assume he meant every word, rather than twist and turn to try to alleviate your conscience and the morals society as a whole instilled in you (and ignore CO$ and Hubbard’s idea of ethics) that attempt to invent what you believe ought to be written between the lines… right?

I take this literally, as does DM… the difference is I would never dream of acting on it – DM would in a heartbeat, and evidently has/does. I don’t dispute the evilness and horror of Davey Makemerich and his effect on CO$ since stealing the power position, but I also, unlike you, don’t ignore or rationalise away the direct negative effect Hubbard and his writings had on it too. Whilst the CO$ and the Scientology subject/philosophy may be two separate things, I have read enough about both now to see that the evil comes from both entities and cannot be entirely attributed to ‘one man’ – there are distinctly ‘two men’ to blame – HUBBARD and MAKEMERICH.

Thank you, I appreciate your willingness to discuss the topic.
🙂

The ting about “if only” is it doesn’t matter. It wasn’t done and common sense was ditched, not used. Give red a try without the pressure on the PC to measure up to some over-the-top claim and see how he does in life. This is a time of honesty.

So agree, EnthralledObserver. More and more these days, I seem to hear from people on blogs that have ‘one foot out the door’. But the foot that’s stuck inside is still glued to the ‘Ron is Source’ crap. LRH was the plagiarist that started all this nasty shit. Just remember the overboarding, kids in chain lockers, disconnection, and the ‘everyone who’s not a scilon is the enemy’ attitude he had. What a charlatan.

Well actually POT NED Ser Fac handling was part of Grade IV when NED was before the Grades.

That said.

The NED Ser Fac handling was done after a lot of left side handling on NED (handling Ser Facs is right side per Xdn) meaning the full NED grade according to an HCOB obviously squirrel man overlooked in his efforts to recover lost tech entitled “The Key to Expanded Dianetics” not to mention a full and complete DRD and full lower Grades up to IV.

Anyhoo…

You can see all the complications Mr. Macsquillage has created by putting the NED back into Ser Fac handling.

It’s like a total stop to anyone training on Class IV these days (I mean he or she has to do a NED Course which is now after Class IV) or anyone coauditing the level for the same reason.

And can you imagine trying to run Ser Facs which go pretty much whole track on someone who’s still stuck in Drug Engrams or even close to PT accidents or illnesses?

Sheeeesh

Good luck on that.

Phillip obviously is a newbee to this topic. We really should either educate him or ignore him. I am a never-in and many of you are indies. Thoughts

Phillip. I am a recovering Lutheran. You, sir, are being too simplistic in your approach. You obviously do not understand the complexity of this topic.

In other words, go away and read up and educate yourself.

Dear Enthralled,

If all religions were judged by the mental acuity of every member and by the number of people who slavish follow certain texts or all of them – then every major religion out there today, should be in line for immediate dismantling.

LRH made a historical assessment of one of the most charismatic leaders of all time. Bolivar had the rare gift of being able to “glow things right.” Which means possessing the force of personality needed to get people to act on his behalf, even when it might not be in their own best interests.

When I first read this, I never got that this was the gospel. I just never did. I saw it as a statement of what things were like when Bolivar existed – his time and place and the mores that everyone followed then. “Hear the thump of a enemy’s body falling in the night.” I took this as a metaphor, not as a literal call to action. My translation: support the people that support you. Love the people that love you.

Does DM take it literally? Shit, DM takes everything literally. He is incapable of conceptual understanding. He interprets this policy as he interprets every policy, book, tape and candy bar wrapper – what’s in it for me?

Most Scientologists — understand this, because they never lost sight of the goal of SCN. Free beings. One simply doesn’t become free by slavishly following the dystopic rambling of a hyperactive little pinhead.

Odd