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	Comments on: Scientology&#8217;s Riverside County Schmoozing	</title>
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	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2019 03:57:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: PeaceMaker		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-254037</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PeaceMaker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2019 03:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=957359#comment-254037</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250241&quot;&gt;Ann Davis&lt;/a&gt;.

Karen recently wrote about Heber:  &quot;He is now 83 years old and having had a major stroke, cannot sit up straight and has a Sea Org member in full time attendance. He cannot walk.&quot;

Yes, it&#039;s heartbreaking.  She posted a moving tribute to what he went through growing up with an abusive father in the FLDS Mormon sect, and then in Scientology, at:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/bent-corydon-talks-about-l-ron-hubbard-messiah-or-madman.47448/#post-1198093

Hopefully he&#039;s at least being well taken care of.  I&#039;d expect Scientology to try to waste (from their point of view) as little time and attention as possible in taking care of him, so there&#039;s the possibility of neglect as happened with Sea Org child care as happened decades ago; and then some poor Sea Orgers who sacrificed and suffered in what they thought was work to save the planet are now being used for senior day care, because Scientology&#039;s secrecy and need to keep abuses hidden prevent them from just hiring and properly paying people who chose to do that work.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250241">Ann Davis</a>.</p>
<p>Karen recently wrote about Heber:  &#8220;He is now 83 years old and having had a major stroke, cannot sit up straight and has a Sea Org member in full time attendance. He cannot walk.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s heartbreaking.  She posted a moving tribute to what he went through growing up with an abusive father in the FLDS Mormon sect, and then in Scientology, at:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/bent-corydon-talks-about-l-ron-hubbard-messiah-or-madman.47448/#post-1198093" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/bent-corydon-talks-about-l-ron-hubbard-messiah-or-madman.47448/#post-1198093</a></p>
<p>Hopefully he&#8217;s at least being well taken care of.  I&#8217;d expect Scientology to try to waste (from their point of view) as little time and attention as possible in taking care of him, so there&#8217;s the possibility of neglect as happened with Sea Org child care as happened decades ago; and then some poor Sea Orgers who sacrificed and suffered in what they thought was work to save the planet are now being used for senior day care, because Scientology&#8217;s secrecy and need to keep abuses hidden prevent them from just hiring and properly paying people who chose to do that work.</p>
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		<title>
		By: What Can You Do to Help End Scientology Abuses?		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250849</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What Can You Do to Help End Scientology Abuses?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2019 11:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=957359#comment-250849</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Federal Agencies and elected officials. I recently did a posting with the contact information for Riverside County (where Golden Era Productions is located). It is easy to Google the police or Sheriff Department [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Federal Agencies and elected officials. I recently did a posting with the contact information for Riverside County (where Golden Era Productions is located). It is easy to Google the police or Sheriff Department [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Roger Larsson		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250690</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger Larsson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2019 14:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=957359#comment-250690</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The comfort people feel at home is not in the centre of life, more in a desert.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comfort people feel at home is not in the centre of life, more in a desert.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jere Lull (38 years recovering		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250328</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jere Lull (38 years recovering]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=957359#comment-250328</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-249923&quot;&gt;petlover1948&lt;/a&gt;.

It might be appropriate if you can ID someone who had been from NY.  But INAL, and haven&#039;t played one on TV.  Sheer volume of calls might get something moving in Riverside County or Fresno.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-249923">petlover1948</a>.</p>
<p>It might be appropriate if you can ID someone who had been from NY.  But INAL, and haven&#8217;t played one on TV.  Sheer volume of calls might get something moving in Riverside County or Fresno.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jere Lull (38 years recovering		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250327</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jere Lull (38 years recovering]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=957359#comment-250327</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[On the surface, it seems about the same thing we tried in Clearwater in &#039;75, and I suppose since.  Was a flat-out footbullet.  There weren&#039;t enough of us to affect any race, but the reporters, photographers, and authorities definitely noticed our &quot;get out the scientology vote&quot; efforts, the bus transporting all of us to the polls. This was before any public took up legal residence in the town, before most public properly knew where we were.  Only the 1,000 or so staff were there, and ALL of us registered and voted our &quot;conscience&quot;(which was how our seniors said we should vote, of course.)  Not one of the races came out how &#039;we&#039; wanted them to, there was NO effect on the vote totals, AFAICT.  The real result was the beginning of the push-back scientology has experienced since, only increasing with the little one&#039;s direct involvement, I  see. IIRC, scientology&#039;s perception back then wasn&#039;t too horribly bad amongst the rank-and-file residents, but then, our &quot;uniform&quot; wasn&#039;t so outlandish that we were noticeable; Simply white shirt and black pants, which was a reasonable outfit for the climate, easily laundered.  We didn&#039;t even get &#039;boiler suits&#039; in the RPF, which was the uniform policy stated we wear.  I suppose we wore what wasn&#039;t too stiff to put on.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the surface, it seems about the same thing we tried in Clearwater in &#8217;75, and I suppose since.  Was a flat-out footbullet.  There weren&#8217;t enough of us to affect any race, but the reporters, photographers, and authorities definitely noticed our &#8220;get out the scientology vote&#8221; efforts, the bus transporting all of us to the polls. This was before any public took up legal residence in the town, before most public properly knew where we were.  Only the 1,000 or so staff were there, and ALL of us registered and voted our &#8220;conscience&#8221;(which was how our seniors said we should vote, of course.)  Not one of the races came out how &#8216;we&#8217; wanted them to, there was NO effect on the vote totals, AFAICT.  The real result was the beginning of the push-back scientology has experienced since, only increasing with the little one&#8217;s direct involvement, I  see. IIRC, scientology&#8217;s perception back then wasn&#8217;t too horribly bad amongst the rank-and-file residents, but then, our &#8220;uniform&#8221; wasn&#8217;t so outlandish that we were noticeable; Simply white shirt and black pants, which was a reasonable outfit for the climate, easily laundered.  We didn&#8217;t even get &#8216;boiler suits&#8217; in the RPF, which was the uniform policy stated we wear.  I suppose we wore what wasn&#8217;t too stiff to put on.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jere Lull (38 years recovering		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250324</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jere Lull (38 years recovering]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=957359#comment-250324</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250069&quot;&gt;Mary Kahn&lt;/a&gt;.

The Gold base IS cleaned up, don&#039;cha know, Mary?  If asked, EACH of the execs sleeping under their desks and being served slop will say they&#039;re treated VERY well by the great humanitatian, David Miscavige.. Each VOLUNTEERED to forego beds and nutrition in order to &quot;toughen up&quot; for the upcoming apocalypse they&#039;re sure is on the way.  AND, it&#039;s been &#039;proven&#039; that staying a little underfed improves longevity.  The results were valid only for a specific breed of mice, but it&#039;s supposed to  be true for homo saps, too.  And how  many of them have teeth rotting out of their mouths, haven&#039;t been allowed to bathe for weeks?  Those &quot;offices&quot; must smell pretty rank, from the stories I&#039;ve read. That alone might alert the authorities to something &quot;being rotten, literally.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250069">Mary Kahn</a>.</p>
<p>The Gold base IS cleaned up, don&#8217;cha know, Mary?  If asked, EACH of the execs sleeping under their desks and being served slop will say they&#8217;re treated VERY well by the great humanitatian, David Miscavige.. Each VOLUNTEERED to forego beds and nutrition in order to &#8220;toughen up&#8221; for the upcoming apocalypse they&#8217;re sure is on the way.  AND, it&#8217;s been &#8216;proven&#8217; that staying a little underfed improves longevity.  The results were valid only for a specific breed of mice, but it&#8217;s supposed to  be true for homo saps, too.  And how  many of them have teeth rotting out of their mouths, haven&#8217;t been allowed to bathe for weeks?  Those &#8220;offices&#8221; must smell pretty rank, from the stories I&#8217;ve read. That alone might alert the authorities to something &#8220;being rotten, literally.</p>
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		<title>
		By: PeaceMaker		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250261</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PeaceMaker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2019 22:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=957359#comment-250261</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250238&quot;&gt;Mike Rinder&lt;/a&gt;.

Mike, thanks for the clarification.

I&#039;ve observed that there&#039;s often a kernel of truth in Scientology&#039;s propaganda claims.  In this case, maybe it&#039;s just Miscavige&#039;s fears running rampant.

I do think Scientology&#039;s elderly are an area where they are increasingly vulnerable to having their abuses exposed, and are at risk of having some instance or incident go very wrong for them.  Americans may have trouble understanding and dealing with issues of undue influence, coercion and control when it comes to adults, but with elders there is more agreement that they may be manipulated and even taken advantage of, and need to be protected - which laws now cover, and government now tries to enforce. What Scientology has been used to getting away for decades with doing to people who are in the prime of life, is looked at differently when those individuals get on in years.

Here are a couple of references - note that several things that Scientology routinely does, particularly at the base, such as financial exploitation and isolation, are considered abuse when it comes to elders:

CANHR - Recognizing and Reporting Elder Abuse - What is Elder Abuse?
&quot;In California, elders are defined as persons 65 years and older.

Under California law, elder abuse can be both criminal and civil.

Criminal elder abuse occurs where any person who knows that a person is an elder and willfully causes or permits that elder to suffer, or inflicts unjustifiable physical pain or mental suffering on the elder. It also covers situations where a person willfully causes or permits an elder to be placed in a situation in which elder’s health is endangered. (Penal Code Section 368)

Civil law defines civil elder abuse to mean physical abuse, neglect, financial abuse, abandonment, isolation, abduction, or other treatment resulting in physical harm or pain or mental suffering to an elder. It also means the deprivation by a care custodian of goods or services that are necessary to avoid physical harm or mental suffering. (Welfare &#038; Institutions Code Section 15610)

Abandonment: The desertion of an elder by someone who is a caregiver.
Abduction: The removal, without the consent of the conservator, of a conservatee to another state.
Financial Abuse: The illegal or unethical exploitation and/or use of an elder’s funds, property, or other assets.
Isolation: The intentional prevention of an elder from receiving mail, telephone calls or visitors.
Mental Suffering: The infliction of fear, agitation, confusion through threats, harassment or other forms of intimidating behavior.
Neglect: The failure to fulfill a caretaking obligation such as assisting in personal hygiene, providing food, clothing or shelter, protecting an elder from health and safety hazards, or preventing malnutrition.
Physical Abuse:The infliction of physical pain or injury, sexual assault or molestation, or use of physical or chemical restraints for punishment.&quot;
http://www.canhr.org/factsheets/abuse_fs/html/fs_elderabuse.htm

California Bureau of Medi-Cal Fraud &#038; Elder Abuse (BMFEA)- Elder Abuse Laws (Criminal)
https://oag.ca.gov/bmfea/laws/crim_elder]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250238">Mike Rinder</a>.</p>
<p>Mike, thanks for the clarification.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve observed that there&#8217;s often a kernel of truth in Scientology&#8217;s propaganda claims.  In this case, maybe it&#8217;s just Miscavige&#8217;s fears running rampant.</p>
<p>I do think Scientology&#8217;s elderly are an area where they are increasingly vulnerable to having their abuses exposed, and are at risk of having some instance or incident go very wrong for them.  Americans may have trouble understanding and dealing with issues of undue influence, coercion and control when it comes to adults, but with elders there is more agreement that they may be manipulated and even taken advantage of, and need to be protected &#8211; which laws now cover, and government now tries to enforce. What Scientology has been used to getting away for decades with doing to people who are in the prime of life, is looked at differently when those individuals get on in years.</p>
<p>Here are a couple of references &#8211; note that several things that Scientology routinely does, particularly at the base, such as financial exploitation and isolation, are considered abuse when it comes to elders:</p>
<p>CANHR &#8211; Recognizing and Reporting Elder Abuse &#8211; What is Elder Abuse?<br />
&#8220;In California, elders are defined as persons 65 years and older.</p>
<p>Under California law, elder abuse can be both criminal and civil.</p>
<p>Criminal elder abuse occurs where any person who knows that a person is an elder and willfully causes or permits that elder to suffer, or inflicts unjustifiable physical pain or mental suffering on the elder. It also covers situations where a person willfully causes or permits an elder to be placed in a situation in which elder’s health is endangered. (Penal Code Section 368)</p>
<p>Civil law defines civil elder abuse to mean physical abuse, neglect, financial abuse, abandonment, isolation, abduction, or other treatment resulting in physical harm or pain or mental suffering to an elder. It also means the deprivation by a care custodian of goods or services that are necessary to avoid physical harm or mental suffering. (Welfare &amp; Institutions Code Section 15610)</p>
<p>Abandonment: The desertion of an elder by someone who is a caregiver.<br />
Abduction: The removal, without the consent of the conservator, of a conservatee to another state.<br />
Financial Abuse: The illegal or unethical exploitation and/or use of an elder’s funds, property, or other assets.<br />
Isolation: The intentional prevention of an elder from receiving mail, telephone calls or visitors.<br />
Mental Suffering: The infliction of fear, agitation, confusion through threats, harassment or other forms of intimidating behavior.<br />
Neglect: The failure to fulfill a caretaking obligation such as assisting in personal hygiene, providing food, clothing or shelter, protecting an elder from health and safety hazards, or preventing malnutrition.<br />
Physical Abuse:The infliction of physical pain or injury, sexual assault or molestation, or use of physical or chemical restraints for punishment.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.canhr.org/factsheets/abuse_fs/html/fs_elderabuse.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.canhr.org/factsheets/abuse_fs/html/fs_elderabuse.htm</a></p>
<p>California Bureau of Medi-Cal Fraud &amp; Elder Abuse (BMFEA)- Elder Abuse Laws (Criminal)<br />
<a href="https://oag.ca.gov/bmfea/laws/crim_elder" rel="nofollow ugc">https://oag.ca.gov/bmfea/laws/crim_elder</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Ann Davis		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250241</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann Davis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2019 20:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=957359#comment-250241</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250231&quot;&gt;PeaceMaker&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanx for the article Peacemaker.  Every day I think about Heber.  Absolutely heartbreaking!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250231">PeaceMaker</a>.</p>
<p>Thanx for the article Peacemaker.  Every day I think about Heber.  Absolutely heartbreaking!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ann Davis		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250240</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann Davis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2019 20:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=957359#comment-250240</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250238&quot;&gt;Mike Rinder&lt;/a&gt;.

Peacemaker and Mike, I was under the impression the police car event with Heber had happened as well.  I have been wondering exactly what did happen or was said.  I&#039;m glad to know the truth as I had shared that info.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250238">Mike Rinder</a>.</p>
<p>Peacemaker and Mike, I was under the impression the police car event with Heber had happened as well.  I have been wondering exactly what did happen or was said.  I&#8217;m glad to know the truth as I had shared that info.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike Rinder		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250238</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Rinder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2019 19:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=957359#comment-250238</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250231&quot;&gt;PeaceMaker&lt;/a&gt;.

They never tried to get him into a police car though Scientology did make that claim. Anything Scientology says is almost uniformly wrong.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/scientologys-riverside-county-schmoozing/#comment-250231">PeaceMaker</a>.</p>
<p>They never tried to get him into a police car though Scientology did make that claim. Anything Scientology says is almost uniformly wrong.</p>
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