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	Comments on: Some Serious Snark	</title>
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	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2021 16:54:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Real		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443756</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Real]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2021 16:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2613222#comment-443756</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443701&quot;&gt;Jere Lull&lt;/a&gt;.

Jere, ACTUALLY, it is.  It fits a definition of religion.  

Just because it is a religion doesn&#039;t mean it is good and/or correct.  Believing oneself to be a immortal spiritual being and taking part in practices to increase your spiritual power is about as religious as it gets.  You are conflating religion with modern, Western forms of organized sects.  That isn&#039;t the definition of religion per se.  Even though they are also religions.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443701">Jere Lull</a>.</p>
<p>Jere, ACTUALLY, it is.  It fits a definition of religion.  </p>
<p>Just because it is a religion doesn&#8217;t mean it is good and/or correct.  Believing oneself to be a immortal spiritual being and taking part in practices to increase your spiritual power is about as religious as it gets.  You are conflating religion with modern, Western forms of organized sects.  That isn&#8217;t the definition of religion per se.  Even though they are also religions.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Real		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443751</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Real]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2021 16:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2613222#comment-443751</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you using ANYTHING Hubturd wrote or said in your life, you are doing it wrong.  Just say NO to Hubturd&#039;s &quot;data&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you using ANYTHING Hubturd wrote or said in your life, you are doing it wrong.  Just say NO to Hubturd&#8217;s &#8220;data&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jere Lull		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443702</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jere Lull]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2021 13:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2613222#comment-443702</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443231&quot;&gt;Mary Kahn&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;“Where’s that Sergeant At Arms.” ? <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f923.png" alt="🤣" class="wp-smiley" style="height: 1em; max-height: 1em;" />
Hopefully blown as far away as possible, and therefore inaccessible.  <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f923.png" alt="🤣" class="wp-smiley" style="height: 1em; max-height: 1em;" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443231">Mary Kahn</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;“Where’s that Sergeant At Arms.” ? 🤣<br />
Hopefully blown as far away as possible, and therefore inaccessible.  🤣</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jere Lull		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443701</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jere Lull]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2021 13:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2613222#comment-443701</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443247&quot;&gt;otherles&lt;/a&gt;.

It&#039;s NOT a religion; it only claims it is to muddy the waters and avoid legal and financial liabilities/responsibilities.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443247">otherles</a>.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s NOT a religion; it only claims it is to muddy the waters and avoid legal and financial liabilities/responsibilities.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jere Lull		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443700</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jere Lull]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2021 13:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2613222#comment-443700</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443415&quot;&gt;Mockingbird&lt;/a&gt;.

Hubbard DID recognize those things and used them with malice aforethought to enslave all who came into contact with him or his product, however obliquely.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443415">Mockingbird</a>.</p>
<p>Hubbard DID recognize those things and used them with malice aforethought to enslave all who came into contact with him or his product, however obliquely.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mockingbird		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443415</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mockingbird]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2021 11:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2613222#comment-443415</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I as many people here already know spent twenty five years in Scientology and left the cult in 2014. In the years since then I have interacted with hundreds of ex Scientologists and Independent Scientologists.

I have found that very often people throw off the belief in the OT levels and clear state and realize that Ronald Hubbard lied about these things, didn&#039;t do the research he alleged, and he was in fact a narcissistic, cruel, pathological liar that was indifferent to the suffering he caused or that he actually enjoyed it. 

But some ideas from Scientology indoctrination seem to persist in the minds of people and cause confusion and hardship long after they are no longer physically among the members in Scientology organizations. 

People often continue to believe in the existence of overts and witholds and the various ethics conditions and the PTS technology and the tone scale long after leaving Scientology, whether they reject the character of Hubbard and David Miscavige or not.

These are frankly dangerous delusions in themselves but when they are combined with the numerous contradictions in Scientology indoctrination and the plentiful terms redefined into their opposites to create double think and denial the psychological effects are unfortunately insidious and persistent.

 Plainly, numerous cult experts from Margaret Singer to Daniel Shaw have recognized that the more contradictions and double think in a cult the more difficult it is to recover, in psychoanalytic terms used by Shaw you have dissociation to overcome.

People often have to tease out individual concepts and related terms that they remain confused about to work out how these are deceptive.

If you left Scientology or are in Scientology and confused about something or find it to be the &quot;mystery sandwich&quot; holding your attention then it&#039;s worth examining with information on the topic from OUTSIDE of Scientology.

Subjects that are useful in deciphering Scientology include logical fallacies, rhetoric, cognitive biases, propaganda analysis, cognitive dissonance theory, behavioral economics, neuroscience, critical thinking and on and on.

The hard part is finding which particular subject and ideas are useful for which Hubbard doctrine. 

If we look at his ethics conditions and use a bit of critical thinking to require evidence of an empirical nature we find that Hubbard provides none, he also has made no effort to falsify his claims to see if they are not compatible with reality. You can have any idea you like, but if it is a statement about something measurable, like statistics in Scientology, and you don&#039;t have measurements to support your claim then it is a very poor claim. 

Another point worth considering is in the Doubt formula Hubbard presents a false dichotomy of saying that you must choose a side and work against the other, but in real life you have other options, you can like two people or groups who are in opposition, you can dislike both, you can be neutral and you have other options. Hubbard failed to recognize this. 

I as another example knew that people have another reason for leaving groups besides the fictional misunderstood words and overts, I have known many people who got jobs during high school or college and planned to leave the jobs when they finished their education, they planned to leave these jobs BEFORE getting the jobs, so it&#039;s hard to see how misunderstood words or overts are the cause of their departure. Several Ethics Officers were crestfallen when I explained this as their Scientology training left no room for any motive for leaving other than overts and witholds and misunderstood words. 

In numerous cases we can find that Hubbard said &quot;this is ALWAYS because of this cause or this small list of causes&quot; and he was simply wrong, further often his alleged causes are things like overts and witholds and engrams and locks and secondaries that simply do not exist, at least they are claims that lack scientific evidence and have ample evidence against them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I as many people here already know spent twenty five years in Scientology and left the cult in 2014. In the years since then I have interacted with hundreds of ex Scientologists and Independent Scientologists.</p>
<p>I have found that very often people throw off the belief in the OT levels and clear state and realize that Ronald Hubbard lied about these things, didn&#8217;t do the research he alleged, and he was in fact a narcissistic, cruel, pathological liar that was indifferent to the suffering he caused or that he actually enjoyed it. </p>
<p>But some ideas from Scientology indoctrination seem to persist in the minds of people and cause confusion and hardship long after they are no longer physically among the members in Scientology organizations. </p>
<p>People often continue to believe in the existence of overts and witholds and the various ethics conditions and the PTS technology and the tone scale long after leaving Scientology, whether they reject the character of Hubbard and David Miscavige or not.</p>
<p>These are frankly dangerous delusions in themselves but when they are combined with the numerous contradictions in Scientology indoctrination and the plentiful terms redefined into their opposites to create double think and denial the psychological effects are unfortunately insidious and persistent.</p>
<p> Plainly, numerous cult experts from Margaret Singer to Daniel Shaw have recognized that the more contradictions and double think in a cult the more difficult it is to recover, in psychoanalytic terms used by Shaw you have dissociation to overcome.</p>
<p>People often have to tease out individual concepts and related terms that they remain confused about to work out how these are deceptive.</p>
<p>If you left Scientology or are in Scientology and confused about something or find it to be the &#8220;mystery sandwich&#8221; holding your attention then it&#8217;s worth examining with information on the topic from OUTSIDE of Scientology.</p>
<p>Subjects that are useful in deciphering Scientology include logical fallacies, rhetoric, cognitive biases, propaganda analysis, cognitive dissonance theory, behavioral economics, neuroscience, critical thinking and on and on.</p>
<p>The hard part is finding which particular subject and ideas are useful for which Hubbard doctrine. </p>
<p>If we look at his ethics conditions and use a bit of critical thinking to require evidence of an empirical nature we find that Hubbard provides none, he also has made no effort to falsify his claims to see if they are not compatible with reality. You can have any idea you like, but if it is a statement about something measurable, like statistics in Scientology, and you don&#8217;t have measurements to support your claim then it is a very poor claim. </p>
<p>Another point worth considering is in the Doubt formula Hubbard presents a false dichotomy of saying that you must choose a side and work against the other, but in real life you have other options, you can like two people or groups who are in opposition, you can dislike both, you can be neutral and you have other options. Hubbard failed to recognize this. </p>
<p>I as another example knew that people have another reason for leaving groups besides the fictional misunderstood words and overts, I have known many people who got jobs during high school or college and planned to leave the jobs when they finished their education, they planned to leave these jobs BEFORE getting the jobs, so it&#8217;s hard to see how misunderstood words or overts are the cause of their departure. Several Ethics Officers were crestfallen when I explained this as their Scientology training left no room for any motive for leaving other than overts and witholds and misunderstood words. </p>
<p>In numerous cases we can find that Hubbard said &#8220;this is ALWAYS because of this cause or this small list of causes&#8221; and he was simply wrong, further often his alleged causes are things like overts and witholds and engrams and locks and secondaries that simply do not exist, at least they are claims that lack scientific evidence and have ample evidence against them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cece		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443405</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cece]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2021 09:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2613222#comment-443405</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[For 11 years I was on &#039;LOA&#039; while married to my SO husband who was Ljg Chief Engineer at PAC.  He used to tell me stories when he got home at midnight.

One night I guess one of his crew was inquiring of the guys &quot;Do your wives wear &#039;Books Make Booms&#039; T shirts to bed?
Seriously?

Who cares.  All the OTs have learned to sublime their desires to more creative things.

What a warped life that was.  Thank you for putting it all so clear and to the point <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f642.png" alt="🙂" class="wp-smiley" style="height: 1em; max-height: 1em;" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For 11 years I was on &#8216;LOA&#8217; while married to my SO husband who was Ljg Chief Engineer at PAC.  He used to tell me stories when he got home at midnight.</p>
<p>One night I guess one of his crew was inquiring of the guys &#8220;Do your wives wear &#8216;Books Make Booms&#8217; T shirts to bed?<br />
Seriously?</p>
<p>Who cares.  All the OTs have learned to sublime their desires to more creative things.</p>
<p>What a warped life that was.  Thank you for putting it all so clear and to the point 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: xTeamXenu75to03		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443255</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[xTeamXenu75to03]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2021 16:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2613222#comment-443255</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A key slang phrase all Scientologists leaning in the direction of slowing their Scientology life of being regged to death, they should take a look at this slang phrase: 

&quot;Left holding the bag.&quot;


Study up on the internet on Scientology.

Don&#039;t be left holding the bag for L. Ron Hubbard&#039;s quackery empire.

And for sure don&#039;t let your kids join staffs or Sea Org, where they will unwittingly be institutional staff holding Hubbard&#039;s bag of quackery.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A key slang phrase all Scientologists leaning in the direction of slowing their Scientology life of being regged to death, they should take a look at this slang phrase: </p>
<p>&#8220;Left holding the bag.&#8221;</p>
<p>Study up on the internet on Scientology.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be left holding the bag for L. Ron Hubbard&#8217;s quackery empire.</p>
<p>And for sure don&#8217;t let your kids join staffs or Sea Org, where they will unwittingly be institutional staff holding Hubbard&#8217;s bag of quackery.</p>
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		<title>
		By: xTeamXenu75to03chuckbeatty		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443250</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[xTeamXenu75to03chuckbeatty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2021 16:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2613222#comment-443250</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Xenu perpetrated the 4th Dynamic Engram.

The Sea Org, which runs the exorcism Advanced Organizations where the first 3 exorcism levels of upper Scientology are delivered ( OT 3, 4 and 5), plus the higher echelon Flag Service Org in Clearwater that delivers OT 6 and 7, all of these upper Scientology organizations are staffed with Sea Org members.

They need Sea Org members to &quot;run out&quot; the 4th Dynamic Engram.

Who caused the 4th Dynamic Engram.

Answer:   Xenu

You only get briefly briefed about Xenu in a few places, by Hubbard.

OT 3 Course.
Class 8 Course
&quot;Revolt In The Stars&quot; fiction script written  by Hubbard but never released by Author Services Inc.

The 4th Dynamic Engram&#039;s biggest effects, were the releasing of the R6 implanted &quot;body-thetans&quot; that are just surplus bodiless souls that infest ALL humans (read the Class 8 transcripts on Wikileaks, and search for &#039;body thetan&quot; and read the hundred plus mentions and theory of the damage and extensive problem of body thetans to all humans today.

Sea Org members form the echelon organizations of Scientology for delivering the exorcism levels of Scientology, all of this, due to Xenu&#039;s misdeeds of mass murdering and implanting and setting loose of these massive quantities of body thetans that invest today all humans.

And only Sea Org organizations can deliver the exorcism five levels, OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7.

That&#039;s what the 4th dynamic theme ties into, for the Sea Org and for the lower Scientology orgs that warm up the dupes to become indoctrinated full blown believers in body-thetans being humanity&#039;s biggest problem.

The hidden body thetans problem, and the Hubbard solution of the Scientology stepladder organizations to warm up followers to the body thetan problem, and then the exorcism OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 exorcism levels solution.

That&#039;s Scientology in a nutshell.  

It&#039;s a huge long strung out stepladder of quackery, strung out so long that most don&#039;t ever get their heads around the whole big enchilada.    

Xenu caused the 4th Dynamic Engram.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xenu perpetrated the 4th Dynamic Engram.</p>
<p>The Sea Org, which runs the exorcism Advanced Organizations where the first 3 exorcism levels of upper Scientology are delivered ( OT 3, 4 and 5), plus the higher echelon Flag Service Org in Clearwater that delivers OT 6 and 7, all of these upper Scientology organizations are staffed with Sea Org members.</p>
<p>They need Sea Org members to &#8220;run out&#8221; the 4th Dynamic Engram.</p>
<p>Who caused the 4th Dynamic Engram.</p>
<p>Answer:   Xenu</p>
<p>You only get briefly briefed about Xenu in a few places, by Hubbard.</p>
<p>OT 3 Course.<br />
Class 8 Course<br />
&#8220;Revolt In The Stars&#8221; fiction script written  by Hubbard but never released by Author Services Inc.</p>
<p>The 4th Dynamic Engram&#8217;s biggest effects, were the releasing of the R6 implanted &#8220;body-thetans&#8221; that are just surplus bodiless souls that infest ALL humans (read the Class 8 transcripts on Wikileaks, and search for &#8216;body thetan&#8221; and read the hundred plus mentions and theory of the damage and extensive problem of body thetans to all humans today.</p>
<p>Sea Org members form the echelon organizations of Scientology for delivering the exorcism levels of Scientology, all of this, due to Xenu&#8217;s misdeeds of mass murdering and implanting and setting loose of these massive quantities of body thetans that invest today all humans.</p>
<p>And only Sea Org organizations can deliver the exorcism five levels, OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what the 4th dynamic theme ties into, for the Sea Org and for the lower Scientology orgs that warm up the dupes to become indoctrinated full blown believers in body-thetans being humanity&#8217;s biggest problem.</p>
<p>The hidden body thetans problem, and the Hubbard solution of the Scientology stepladder organizations to warm up followers to the body thetan problem, and then the exorcism OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 exorcism levels solution.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s Scientology in a nutshell.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a huge long strung out stepladder of quackery, strung out so long that most don&#8217;t ever get their heads around the whole big enchilada.    </p>
<p>Xenu caused the 4th Dynamic Engram.</p>
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		<title>
		By: otherles		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-serious-snark/#comment-443247</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[otherles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2021 16:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=2613222#comment-443247</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[We must as a fact accept the that religion isn&#039;t an excuse to practice force or fraud. If this makes me a Suppressive Person, so be it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We must as a fact accept the that religion isn&#8217;t an excuse to practice force or fraud. If this makes me a Suppressive Person, so be it.</p>
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