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	<title>
	Comments on: &#8220;Some Things Are Wrong With The Church Of Scientology&#8230;.&#8221;	</title>
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	<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/</link>
	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 17 Jun 2013 06:51:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Formost		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6501</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Formost]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jun 2013 06:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=12963#comment-6501</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6449&quot;&gt;StillHoping&lt;/a&gt;.

Too many changes have been made in the last 25 - 30 years that makes the bridge no longer viable. Topping the list is reges continually at your throat with donation stipulations, which failing, inherit unjust action in respect to Ethics, Eligibilities and derogation gradients. One cannot survive in such an environment unless one&#039;s driveway is paved with gold.

Next, additive actions which easily eat up $100,000s on Sec Checks, FPRD and 6-months check which place the OT levels beyond the scope of viability. Again, streets of gold are required.

The last of the big ticket out-tech/policy items is of course the bastardization of the tech by golden-aging it, creating impossibly long runways.

I just reviewed some FLAG SOURCE Mags of early 1985 this evening and many pages exist stating OT IX was to be released on the Freewinds along with OT VIII, but instead we have 150 hours of Objectives for OTs today. (Oddly enough this was also the time the first ads for the IAS started to show up showing Robert&#039;s smiling mug). No word on that 28 years later aside from presenting dangling carrots from time to time that tell us absolutely nothing about it&#039;s release date. And still, major real estate acquisitions have been erected as requirements for release of services such as &quot;OT IX/X&quot; and &quot;Superpower&quot; which LRH never made any mention of. 

The split is entirely caused by the church management, and it&#039;ll only get worse until either CO$ collapses or for some miraculous reason the management is outed by some influential folks who still have some shred of sanity left, and remember what real Scientology is actually about. I never left the church for any other reason other than the fact I knew there and then I wasn&#039;t going anywhere, and found auditors out here who not only could, but got the job done moving me up the bridge. As long as these suppressive actions continue to be perpetrated against the CO$ memberbase, the Indies cannot help but continue to expand.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6449">StillHoping</a>.</p>
<p>Too many changes have been made in the last 25 &#8211; 30 years that makes the bridge no longer viable. Topping the list is reges continually at your throat with donation stipulations, which failing, inherit unjust action in respect to Ethics, Eligibilities and derogation gradients. One cannot survive in such an environment unless one&#8217;s driveway is paved with gold.</p>
<p>Next, additive actions which easily eat up $100,000s on Sec Checks, FPRD and 6-months check which place the OT levels beyond the scope of viability. Again, streets of gold are required.</p>
<p>The last of the big ticket out-tech/policy items is of course the bastardization of the tech by golden-aging it, creating impossibly long runways.</p>
<p>I just reviewed some FLAG SOURCE Mags of early 1985 this evening and many pages exist stating OT IX was to be released on the Freewinds along with OT VIII, but instead we have 150 hours of Objectives for OTs today. (Oddly enough this was also the time the first ads for the IAS started to show up showing Robert&#8217;s smiling mug). No word on that 28 years later aside from presenting dangling carrots from time to time that tell us absolutely nothing about it&#8217;s release date. And still, major real estate acquisitions have been erected as requirements for release of services such as &#8220;OT IX/X&#8221; and &#8220;Superpower&#8221; which LRH never made any mention of. </p>
<p>The split is entirely caused by the church management, and it&#8217;ll only get worse until either CO$ collapses or for some miraculous reason the management is outed by some influential folks who still have some shred of sanity left, and remember what real Scientology is actually about. I never left the church for any other reason other than the fact I knew there and then I wasn&#8217;t going anywhere, and found auditors out here who not only could, but got the job done moving me up the bridge. As long as these suppressive actions continue to be perpetrated against the CO$ memberbase, the Indies cannot help but continue to expand.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Aquamarine		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6487</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aquamarine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jun 2013 00:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=12963#comment-6487</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6370&quot;&gt;Jim Vanus&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;The actions of the Co$ are progressively less sane towards the supposed goal of sanity&quot;.  Well said.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6370">Jim Vanus</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;The actions of the Co$ are progressively less sane towards the supposed goal of sanity&#8221;.  Well said.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Aquamarine		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6483</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aquamarine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=12963#comment-6483</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6376&quot;&gt;Espiando&lt;/a&gt;.

Assuredly ALL of the Whales and Celebs will buy multiple Mark VIIIs, for home, office, etc.  5K is pocket change for celebs.  A pair of shoes or a handbag or an hour of browsing for incidentals on Rodeo Drive could cost them far more than that.    So sure, the Whales and Celebs will buy whatever they&#039;re told in whatever volume they&#039;re told, no sweat.  

But will they audit people?  Will they produce Releases and Clears, who will, in turn get auditor trained,  audit others to Release and Clear, and so on, and so on, etc. etc?   I seriously doubt it.  And that&#039;s kinda the idea.  It&#039;s this quaint idea that L. Ron Hubbard had, and its what he meant when he talked about &quot;clearing the planet&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6376">Espiando</a>.</p>
<p>Assuredly ALL of the Whales and Celebs will buy multiple Mark VIIIs, for home, office, etc.  5K is pocket change for celebs.  A pair of shoes or a handbag or an hour of browsing for incidentals on Rodeo Drive could cost them far more than that.    So sure, the Whales and Celebs will buy whatever they&#8217;re told in whatever volume they&#8217;re told, no sweat.  </p>
<p>But will they audit people?  Will they produce Releases and Clears, who will, in turn get auditor trained,  audit others to Release and Clear, and so on, and so on, etc. etc?   I seriously doubt it.  And that&#8217;s kinda the idea.  It&#8217;s this quaint idea that L. Ron Hubbard had, and its what he meant when he talked about &#8220;clearing the planet&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jane Doe		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6478</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jane Doe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=12963#comment-6478</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6472&quot;&gt;Aquamarine&lt;/a&gt;.

Aquamarine, your story of how you cognited and got out is beautifully put!  Congratulations to you for your strength to get out and may the force be with you!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6472">Aquamarine</a>.</p>
<p>Aquamarine, your story of how you cognited and got out is beautifully put!  Congratulations to you for your strength to get out and may the force be with you!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Aquamarine		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6472</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aquamarine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=12963#comment-6472</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6360&quot;&gt;Emilie&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for the ack, Emillie, and in turn, very, very well done for just quietly leaving, because really, that is the the end product of cognitions of this sort as regards the Radical Church of Scientology. 
You can be there physically but once you really get it you know that YOU are not really there. By doing it the way you did, you and your husband evaded a lot of drama.

To be honest,  my &quot;getting smart&quot; did not happen overnite but was for me a process that went on for  a while. I had already had my doubts and objections, I had already spotted outpoints and not voiced them.  THEN I started reading Marty&#039;s blog and gained, to put it mildly some perspective on these.outpoints.  I was not alone!!!  Other people, PLENTY of other people, saw and/or objected to these off-policy actions!  To learn this was a huge relief, both a healing and learning process wherein I blew charge!  Without this I would not have had the nerve to even consider &quot;handling&quot;  Church staff.  My bravery came  from knowing I was not alone, and  that I was not disaffected with LRH&#039;s workable tech but with an out-pointy church management.  I was finally able to make that very important distinction which is the kiss of death to fear and awe of the RCS.  In short, it was, and is, true, authentic data, delivered then by Marty and his contributors - Mike, of course, and a number of others - the delivery of true data about the RCS now being delivered here by Mike, that made me sassy!  What I will acknowledge myself for was the willingness to reach for the truth.  See, that&#039;s all these people need to do - REACH!  and I believe they will, each in their own time.  As I did.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6360">Emilie</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for the ack, Emillie, and in turn, very, very well done for just quietly leaving, because really, that is the the end product of cognitions of this sort as regards the Radical Church of Scientology.<br />
You can be there physically but once you really get it you know that YOU are not really there. By doing it the way you did, you and your husband evaded a lot of drama.</p>
<p>To be honest,  my &#8220;getting smart&#8221; did not happen overnite but was for me a process that went on for  a while. I had already had my doubts and objections, I had already spotted outpoints and not voiced them.  THEN I started reading Marty&#8217;s blog and gained, to put it mildly some perspective on these.outpoints.  I was not alone!!!  Other people, PLENTY of other people, saw and/or objected to these off-policy actions!  To learn this was a huge relief, both a healing and learning process wherein I blew charge!  Without this I would not have had the nerve to even consider &#8220;handling&#8221;  Church staff.  My bravery came  from knowing I was not alone, and  that I was not disaffected with LRH&#8217;s workable tech but with an out-pointy church management.  I was finally able to make that very important distinction which is the kiss of death to fear and awe of the RCS.  In short, it was, and is, true, authentic data, delivered then by Marty and his contributors &#8211; Mike, of course, and a number of others &#8211; the delivery of true data about the RCS now being delivered here by Mike, that made me sassy!  What I will acknowledge myself for was the willingness to reach for the truth.  See, that&#8217;s all these people need to do &#8211; REACH!  and I believe they will, each in their own time.  As I did.</p>
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		By: StillHoping		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6449</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StillHoping]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=12963#comment-6449</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I for one hate to see Scientology split into camps, and when I saw DM looking ill at an IAS event some years ago my hopes surged. But it seemed to be a temporary thing.
The question is if too many capable decent folks have already left the SO for there to be any to put Humpty Dumpty back together again and give us an Organization that could be acceptable to scientoogists and the general public alive - should Dave make a run for it or quit. Most likely a name change would be needed for starters.
I remember reading something to the effect of &quot;When there is an SP aboard, the good staff will leave&quot; in an HCO Hat I studied once. 
I remember when I first studied the Lecture on the Org Board and I thought &quot;This is great stuff. We have a Qual and measures in place to make sure we will not go down the route of &#039;alter is&#039; that happend to Christianity and other great movements&quot; but looking back I see what a fool I was and how in one generation LRH&#039;s work has been perverted and undonw to a large degree.
What I find really scary is that every one of the staff and public have studied and agreed with things like &quot;If it is not true to you, it is not true&quot;  or  &quot;Look don&#039;t listen&quot;  or have done the obnosis drill, and still they do not seem to be able to apply these things to the current scene. What hope is there for mankind to ever get out of the trap if  trained scientologists can&#039;t even spot glaring outpoints?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I for one hate to see Scientology split into camps, and when I saw DM looking ill at an IAS event some years ago my hopes surged. But it seemed to be a temporary thing.<br />
The question is if too many capable decent folks have already left the SO for there to be any to put Humpty Dumpty back together again and give us an Organization that could be acceptable to scientoogists and the general public alive &#8211; should Dave make a run for it or quit. Most likely a name change would be needed for starters.<br />
I remember reading something to the effect of &#8220;When there is an SP aboard, the good staff will leave&#8221; in an HCO Hat I studied once.<br />
I remember when I first studied the Lecture on the Org Board and I thought &#8220;This is great stuff. We have a Qual and measures in place to make sure we will not go down the route of &#8216;alter is&#8217; that happend to Christianity and other great movements&#8221; but looking back I see what a fool I was and how in one generation LRH&#8217;s work has been perverted and undonw to a large degree.<br />
What I find really scary is that every one of the staff and public have studied and agreed with things like &#8220;If it is not true to you, it is not true&#8221;  or  &#8220;Look don&#8217;t listen&#8221;  or have done the obnosis drill, and still they do not seem to be able to apply these things to the current scene. What hope is there for mankind to ever get out of the trap if  trained scientologists can&#8217;t even spot glaring outpoints?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Still On Your Side		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6447</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Still On Your Side]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=12963#comment-6447</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;I wanted to go to the toilet, I had to ask security to unlock the main Door to the seminar to let me go …&quot;

What century are they living in?   I hope no fires ever break out at one of these events....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I wanted to go to the toilet, I had to ask security to unlock the main Door to the seminar to let me go …&#8221;</p>
<p>What century are they living in?   I hope no fires ever break out at one of these events&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Formost		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6401</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Formost]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2013 21:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=12963#comment-6401</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6344&quot;&gt;PlainOldThetan&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I found at least one LRH reference on this, in HCOB 21 July 1973 RECOVERING STUDENTS AND PCS. “Students who doped in Class, nattered or got upset have been known to blow (leave hurriedly). But also, students who are interrupted too often when F/Ning may also blow! On “W/H of nothingness.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Thanks for digging these up, PlainOldThetan.

Very insightful infos, appreciate the post.

Another reference that may be of interest:  &quot;&lt;em&gt;RECOVERING STUDENTS AND PCs (HCOPL 25 Jun 72), OEC Vol. 4 [1991]&lt;/em&gt;&quot;

Excerpt:

&lt;b&gt;&quot;There are five main blow reasons:

1. Misunderstood words (or no materials).

2. No help or W/C Method 4 from the Supers (or no Super).

3. Interference from the Supers that stopped them from getting on.

4. Personal out-ethics resulting in a W/H.

5. Simply booted off for reasons best known to God or Registrars (like suddenly saying, &quot;You must now buy Method 1,&quot; etc., thus violating the &quot;deliver what we promise&quot; rule).

The interference and boot-off reasons are the ones you&#039;d least suspect. Both generate a lot of HE&#038;R (Human Emotion and Reaction).&quot;&lt;/b&gt;

And here, making non-LRH called-for IAS donos seems to fit &lt;b&gt;5.&lt;/b&gt; ...&lt;b&gt;reasons best known to God &#038; Registrars.&lt;/b&gt;

And of course they always like to turn the tables and indicate a wrong item such as &lt;b&gt;4.&lt;/b&gt; in that you are not being responsible if you don&#039;t fork over the wallet. In fact they create that item by asking how much money you have in the bank generating a W/H, since we don&#039;t tell them what isn&#039;t any of their business, but we do get the feeling we&#039;ll be in personal ethics trouble if we don&#039;t. They push buttons for dollars.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6344">PlainOldThetan</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>I found at least one LRH reference on this, in HCOB 21 July 1973 RECOVERING STUDENTS AND PCS. “Students who doped in Class, nattered or got upset have been known to blow (leave hurriedly). But also, students who are interrupted too often when F/Ning may also blow! On “W/H of nothingness.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Thanks for digging these up, PlainOldThetan.</p>
<p>Very insightful infos, appreciate the post.</p>
<p>Another reference that may be of interest:  &#8220;<em>RECOVERING STUDENTS AND PCs (HCOPL 25 Jun 72), OEC Vol. 4 [1991]</em>&#8221;</p>
<p>Excerpt:</p>
<p><b>&#8220;There are five main blow reasons:</p>
<p>1. Misunderstood words (or no materials).</p>
<p>2. No help or W/C Method 4 from the Supers (or no Super).</p>
<p>3. Interference from the Supers that stopped them from getting on.</p>
<p>4. Personal out-ethics resulting in a W/H.</p>
<p>5. Simply booted off for reasons best known to God or Registrars (like suddenly saying, &#8220;You must now buy Method 1,&#8221; etc., thus violating the &#8220;deliver what we promise&#8221; rule).</p>
<p>The interference and boot-off reasons are the ones you&#8217;d least suspect. Both generate a lot of HE&amp;R (Human Emotion and Reaction).&#8221;</b></p>
<p>And here, making non-LRH called-for IAS donos seems to fit <b>5.</b> &#8230;<b>reasons best known to God &amp; Registrars.</b></p>
<p>And of course they always like to turn the tables and indicate a wrong item such as <b>4.</b> in that you are not being responsible if you don&#8217;t fork over the wallet. In fact they create that item by asking how much money you have in the bank generating a W/H, since we don&#8217;t tell them what isn&#8217;t any of their business, but we do get the feeling we&#8217;ll be in personal ethics trouble if we don&#8217;t. They push buttons for dollars.</p>
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		By: Formost		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6397</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Formost]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2013 20:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=12963#comment-6397</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6346&quot;&gt;Formost&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I wanted to go to the toilet ,I had to ask security to unlock the main Door to the seminar to let me go ...&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Eric ... been witness to that too. Like a Kindergarten, one needs the IAS&#039;s teacher-cops to OK pee parole. Any normal human being who doesn&#039;t even know the tone scale knows how underhanded the membership is being treated when they attend such functions. But of course under the pretense of planet clearing anything and everything goes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6346">Formost</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>I wanted to go to the toilet ,I had to ask security to unlock the main Door to the seminar to let me go &#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Eric &#8230; been witness to that too. Like a Kindergarten, one needs the IAS&#8217;s teacher-cops to OK pee parole. Any normal human being who doesn&#8217;t even know the tone scale knows how underhanded the membership is being treated when they attend such functions. But of course under the pretense of planet clearing anything and everything goes.</p>
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		By: Jane Doe		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6391</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jane Doe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2013 19:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=12963#comment-6391</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6324&quot;&gt;Vertsurblanc&lt;/a&gt;.

Vertsurblanc,  Wow, this is just mind boggling. They don&#039;t dare handle the real issues in PT, so they go back to David May thinking this is their one shining moment of finding the &quot;true and correct SP and ousting him&quot; and &quot;aren&#039;t we heroes for getting rid of Mayo...&quot;  Unbelievable!  They are putting up smoke and mirrors so that you don&#039;t look at the P.T. Scene!  I trained in the 80&#039;s and I remember at many , almost all musters, they would joke and degrade about the super evil David Mayo saying, &quot;Hold the Mayo&quot; and things like that.  I believed it all and still thought he was an SP until I read some Indie things and saw some videos of talks Mayo gave etc.  He was actually a good guy, highest tech trained man, Ron&#039;s right hand man and auditor, and DM got rid of him because he had to take out the king pins in order to have his coupe take effect.  So my unofficial rule of thumb is that if corporate says someone is an SP, they probably are not!  lol]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/some-things-are-wrong-with-the-church-of-scientology/#comment-6324">Vertsurblanc</a>.</p>
<p>Vertsurblanc,  Wow, this is just mind boggling. They don&#8217;t dare handle the real issues in PT, so they go back to David May thinking this is their one shining moment of finding the &#8220;true and correct SP and ousting him&#8221; and &#8220;aren&#8217;t we heroes for getting rid of Mayo&#8230;&#8221;  Unbelievable!  They are putting up smoke and mirrors so that you don&#8217;t look at the P.T. Scene!  I trained in the 80&#8217;s and I remember at many , almost all musters, they would joke and degrade about the super evil David Mayo saying, &#8220;Hold the Mayo&#8221; and things like that.  I believed it all and still thought he was an SP until I read some Indie things and saw some videos of talks Mayo gave etc.  He was actually a good guy, highest tech trained man, Ron&#8217;s right hand man and auditor, and DM got rid of him because he had to take out the king pins in order to have his coupe take effect.  So my unofficial rule of thumb is that if corporate says someone is an SP, they probably are not!  lol</p>
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