One of them is a new line is being used by MAA’s and OSA to try to handle those who raise questions concerning the state of affairs in Scientology:
“Yes, some things are wrong within the Church, but that’s no reason to tear it down”
Just 5 years ago to admit “some things are wrong” would have been high treason. It would likely have warranted a “provisional declare.”
It is an acknowledgement of the inevitable — there are just too many people asking too many questions or giving the wrong answers when they are interrogated as to why they are not showing up for events, giving money or “on lines.” But it is also a typical effort to shift the attention from the outnesses onto those who are making those outnesses known. Because the unstated point of the second half of the sentence is this: “Anyone who questions or criticizes ANYTHING about the church is trying to destroy it.”
This “logic” is quite pervasive in the RCS (Radical Church of Scientology) and the two halves on the sentence, when you think about what they really mean is that while we know we look absolutely stupid saying everything is perfect, we are telling you that if you comment on any of our imperfections you are suppressive. And that all “black PR” (i.e. anything that is wrong) comes from a “handful of bitter defrocked apostates.”
And also unstated is ANYTHING you can do about it other than the very worn “write it up” which literally means “take a number and get in line for a sec check at your expense.”
But of course, in just a couple of weeks ALL possible “imperfections” WILL be cured.
GAT II will become the panacea for EVERYTHING. It will explain why there are no auditors and nobody is making it up the Grade Chart. It will explain why in spite of all the promises, the “Ideal Orgs” have not boomed anything at all and are just as dead and empty as the non-ideal orgs. It will explain the lack of new public coming in (MU’s because of the suppressive Student Hat? or something…) even the need for “heavy ethics” (they’ll find something — some quote about ethics get heavy when tech is out or some such).
So, they feel confident that they can acknowledge everything isnt perfect soon it will be! Just like it was with the release of OT VIII, GAT, GAK, Basics, Ideal Orgs, Div 6 campaigns and of course “thanks to the IAS.”
It is interesting to watch the contortions and leaps of logic as they unfold.
I for one hate to see Scientology split into camps, and when I saw DM looking ill at an IAS event some years ago my hopes surged. But it seemed to be a temporary thing.
The question is if too many capable decent folks have already left the SO for there to be any to put Humpty Dumpty back together again and give us an Organization that could be acceptable to scientoogists and the general public alive – should Dave make a run for it or quit. Most likely a name change would be needed for starters.
I remember reading something to the effect of “When there is an SP aboard, the good staff will leave” in an HCO Hat I studied once.
I remember when I first studied the Lecture on the Org Board and I thought “This is great stuff. We have a Qual and measures in place to make sure we will not go down the route of ‘alter is’ that happend to Christianity and other great movements” but looking back I see what a fool I was and how in one generation LRH’s work has been perverted and undonw to a large degree.
What I find really scary is that every one of the staff and public have studied and agreed with things like “If it is not true to you, it is not true” or “Look don’t listen” or have done the obnosis drill, and still they do not seem to be able to apply these things to the current scene. What hope is there for mankind to ever get out of the trap if trained scientologists can’t even spot glaring outpoints?
Too many changes have been made in the last 25 – 30 years that makes the bridge no longer viable. Topping the list is reges continually at your throat with donation stipulations, which failing, inherit unjust action in respect to Ethics, Eligibilities and derogation gradients. One cannot survive in such an environment unless one’s driveway is paved with gold.
Next, additive actions which easily eat up $100,000s on Sec Checks, FPRD and 6-months check which place the OT levels beyond the scope of viability. Again, streets of gold are required.
The last of the big ticket out-tech/policy items is of course the bastardization of the tech by golden-aging it, creating impossibly long runways.
I just reviewed some FLAG SOURCE Mags of early 1985 this evening and many pages exist stating OT IX was to be released on the Freewinds along with OT VIII, but instead we have 150 hours of Objectives for OTs today. (Oddly enough this was also the time the first ads for the IAS started to show up showing Robert’s smiling mug). No word on that 28 years later aside from presenting dangling carrots from time to time that tell us absolutely nothing about it’s release date. And still, major real estate acquisitions have been erected as requirements for release of services such as “OT IX/X” and “Superpower” which LRH never made any mention of.
The split is entirely caused by the church management, and it’ll only get worse until either CO$ collapses or for some miraculous reason the management is outed by some influential folks who still have some shred of sanity left, and remember what real Scientology is actually about. I never left the church for any other reason other than the fact I knew there and then I wasn’t going anywhere, and found auditors out here who not only could, but got the job done moving me up the bridge. As long as these suppressive actions continue to be perpetrated against the CO$ memberbase, the Indies cannot help but continue to expand.
Still On Your Side says
“I wanted to go to the toilet, I had to ask security to unlock the main Door to the seminar to let me go …”
What century are they living in? I hope no fires ever break out at one of these events….
Eric Alexandrou says
Some people I know that been in and are out complained about not having enough food to eat,another complained to me of not having soap to wash her self,I no it sounds unbelievable ,but it’s true,another tould me ,that she got a phone call from the org in Melbourne ,Australia to cut down on her shopping ,one person I no shut his shop,he does not want to have nothing to do with the org any more,another person I no feels the same way,mainly becourse off the hounding for money all the time for the org,or IAS,SHE IS DOing well,and her busyness is doing great now that she left the church,there’s been a lot of hard ship been placed on my frends that were on staff and some were public,the whole thing about the church is a complete mass,there is a lot of people hurting ,just to even talk about the org.
Steve Poore says
“One often wonders why people are so ‘reasonable’ about intolerable and illogical situations. The answer is very simple: they cannot recognize outpoints when they see them and so try to make everything seem logical. The ability to actually see an outpoint for what it is, in itself is an ability to attain some peace of mind. …The human reaction is to react to an outpoint. And then get ‘reasonable’ and adopt some explanation for it, usually untrue.
You can safely say that ‘being reasonable’ is a symptom of being unable to recognize outpoints for what they are and use them to discover actual situations.” HCO P/L 30 September 1973 Issue II Data Series 30, Situation Finding (Management Series Vol. 1, p. 128)
“A lot of people are on a stuck flow of being sensible and sane — and that winds up in stupidity. So they get reasonable. Their confront of evil isn’t up to it — basically, their confront of outpoints.” HCO P/L 18 March 1977RA Data Series 43RA, Evaluation and Programs (Management Series Vol. 1, p. 167)
“It is horrifying to behold how easily people buy dub-in. This is because an illogical sequence is uncomfortable. To relieve the discomfort they distort their own observation by not-ising the outpoint and concluding something else.” HCO P/L 18 May 1970 Data Series 7, Familiarity (Management Series
“It is an acknowledgement of the inevitable — there are just too many people asking too many questions or giving the wrong answers when they are interrogated as to why they are not showing up for events, giving money or “on lines.” ”
As far as I can see ,the “inevitable” is that the scheme of out-exchange fundraising without moving people up the Bridge, while blocking every attempt the people make to move themselves up the Bridge is a games condition. That has, in my opinion, resulted in people denying their allegiance and attendance and monies to the church. Which was predictable, and inevitable.
Jean-François Genest says
Very nice. I laughed when I saw the picture. You are definitely helping the erosion. It is becoming ever so difficult for the Church to hide the truth about what is really going on.
We must be careful not to be flummoxed into thinking the church is waking up. It is a common tactic of the church to put forward a “cognition”, only to resort to its usual behavior with zeal.
Example: After the Katie divorce was finalized there were stories all over the press about Tom Cruise coming to his senses and reconsidering his steadfast allegiance to Miscavige only to have TC show up at the IAS event live in the UK to kiss Miscavige’s butt.
Don’t be fooled by the words. LOOK, don’t LISTEN.
Just Me says
I wonder how many *active* Corporate Scientologists are left. I’m guessing 15K public, worldwide. Maybe 7,000 SO / staff. Call it under 25K worldwide now.
That’s been the conclusion of a lot of people. John has run the numbers through the supercomputers at Global Capitalism HQ and has come up with a similar figure. Jeff Hawkins has put a definite upper cap at 40000 worldwide, certainly less than that figure.
The problem is, how many of them are whales who are gullible enough to buy into GAT II, Electric Boogaloo? As long as there’s money to be had, there will be no significant change.
Assuredly ALL of the Whales and Celebs will buy multiple Mark VIIIs, for home, office, etc. 5K is pocket change for celebs. A pair of shoes or a handbag or an hour of browsing for incidentals on Rodeo Drive could cost them far more than that. So sure, the Whales and Celebs will buy whatever they’re told in whatever volume they’re told, no sweat.
But will they audit people? Will they produce Releases and Clears, who will, in turn get auditor trained, audit others to Release and Clear, and so on, and so on, etc. etc? I seriously doubt it. And that’s kinda the idea. It’s this quaint idea that L. Ron Hubbard had, and its what he meant when he talked about “clearing the planet”.
One spots outpoints in an activity or area because these are HARMING the activity or area. To NOT spot them and/or to spot them and not communicate about them allows the outpoints to continue harming the activity or area! Now, to be none-too-subtly accused of an intent to destroy the activity or area because one has spotted some outpoints adds up to 2 more outpoints: altered importance, certainly, and as well, contrary fact. It is contrary fact because one wants to help yet is being effectively told that one does not want to help, that one’s real intent is to destroy. The RCS does this trick to its parishioners all the time. OSA people are particularly masters of this ploy.
I never lose sight of the fact how glad I am to no longer be part of that.
“Oh, you’ve joined the bad guys?”
Irrelevant, the relief is in the disconnection.
” The overt of failing to give made you blow.”
No such LRH reference, hence no such transgression. Your in-house squirrels made it up out of thin air. Try again.
Actually, I think of the LRH reference has to do with MISSED WITHHOLD OF NOTHING, 1. there is nothing there, yet the auditor tries to get it and the pc ARC breaks. This gives the pc a missed withhold of nothing. (HCO PL 16 Apr 65) 2. “cleaning” a rudiment that has already registered null gives the pc a missed withhold of nothingness. His nothingness was not accepted. The pc has no answer. A missed no-answer then occurs. To ask again something already null is to leave the pc baffled-he has a missed withhold which is a nothingness. (HCOB 4 Jul 62)
I wish I could find the reference right offhand where I believe LRH says a missed withhold of nothing results in the same symptoms as a missed withhold of SOMETHING…such as “blows”. This is the problem with the “what are your crimes?” question. The presumption that you have crimes is a generality that leads to missed withholds of nothingness.
I found at least one LRH reference on this, in HCOB 21 July 1973 RECOVERING STUDENTS AND PCS. “Students who doped in Class, nattered or got upset have been known to blow (leave hurriedly). But also, students who are interrupted too often when F/Ning may also blow! On “W/H of nothingness.”
This was one of the problems I had when the GAT got slammed into the orgs. I was F/Ning on course, but the course supervisors were always on my ass WHEN THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG.
But it was sacrilege to suggest that a “Flag trained supervisor” was doing things that were keeping a student from getting on with his studies. So poorly trained supervisors plus a suppressive political environment fomented dissatisfaction, MWH of nothings, and a SHSBC that was drained of students who only wanted to get on with it.
I used to tell people that what I liked about Tess Frazier (one of the ASHOF SHSBC supervisors pre-GAT) was that SHE DIDN’T BOTHER ME. She was there when I needed help finding definitions or needed clay demo checkouts, but other than that, she just LEFT ME ALONE.
On the other hand, when I was demoted to the Professional Metering Course, the supervisors there were just hard-edged unhelpful a-holes who constantly interrupted me. It was a miracle I got through the course at all.
Another helpful reference on this was in the Happiness Rundown Materials (HCOB C/Sing the HAPPINESS RUNDOWN).
Finally there is the missed withhold of nothing or an auditor having cleaned cleans on
the pc – either by insisting on re-clearing words or questions that have already been cleared,
insisting that the pc find an answer to a question that the pc doesn’t have, or by “steering” a
pc on a meter (inaccurately).
NEVER PERMIT AN AUDITOR TO MISS WITHHOLDS OR TO MISS ANSWERS
ON A PC, OR TO LEAVE THEM MISSED OR UNPULLED (NOR LET THEM GO TO
THE OTHER EXTREME OF CLEANING CLEANS).
(Actually it is awfully easy to see if a pc has bad indicators, out rudiments or is so
distraught that he is about to blow and to handle these. It is just as easy to see when a pc is in
session and not harass the pc. All you have to do is observe the indicators.)
Thanks for digging these up, PlainOldThetan.
Very insightful infos, appreciate the post.
Another reference that may be of interest: “RECOVERING STUDENTS AND PCs (HCOPL 25 Jun 72), OEC Vol. 4 ”
“There are five main blow reasons:
1. Misunderstood words (or no materials).
2. No help or W/C Method 4 from the Supers (or no Super).
3. Interference from the Supers that stopped them from getting on.
4. Personal out-ethics resulting in a W/H.
5. Simply booted off for reasons best known to God or Registrars (like suddenly saying, “You must now buy Method 1,” etc., thus violating the “deliver what we promise” rule).
The interference and boot-off reasons are the ones you’d least suspect. Both generate a lot of HE&R (Human Emotion and Reaction).”
And here, making non-LRH called-for IAS donos seems to fit 5. …reasons best known to God & Registrars.
And of course they always like to turn the tables and indicate a wrong item such as 4. in that you are not being responsible if you don’t fork over the wallet. In fact they create that item by asking how much money you have in the bank generating a W/H, since we don’t tell them what isn’t any of their business, but we do get the feeling we’ll be in personal ethics trouble if we don’t. They push buttons for dollars.
“Yes, some things are wrong within the church, but that’s no reason to tear it down”.
Mike, and everyone, can I originate how much I HATE this kind of response when one observes and/or queries an outpoint? It is just SO illogical and SOOOO annoying. This USED TO WORK on me until got smart and refused to allow myself to be introverted, refused to allow the issue to be about ME, with very good TR-4. I began handling these remarks like originations in an auditing session – I duplicated, understood, acknowledged, and returned them to “session” i.e., the outpoint(s). Well! That’s when I began making THEM crazy. That’s when they began losing THEIR TRs, because they could not handle being unable to throw me off balance. They could not handle my extroversion, (mocked up) my calmness (mocked up), my lack of temper and defensiveness (ditto). I had a lot of introverting assertions flung at me when I began pointing out outpoints and boy do they know what buttons to press and they do it by deliberate misduplication. Make no mistake, it is very deliberate and 1.1. and needs to be handled with very good TRs to command the covert hostility tone level. Try it, and watch the fireworks, because you’re actually bringing them UP tone to Anger by doing this. .
I have a similar experience with introverting assertions. When OSA was trying to handle the “Black PR” caused by reading Marty’s blog, so that I could be recruited for the Ideal Morgue, they escorted me to AO for an interview. The MAA brought up the main PTS item and main ethics item that had been part of my past eligibility program. I had a blinding realization, sitting there holding the cans, that this was done entirely to let me know that they could introvert and control me, then and forever. I wasn’t as brave as you, Aquamarine, in confronting them with this. But shortly after that my husband and I made our exits. And the fresh air outside of the gulag is something we’re grateful for every day!
Thanks for the ack, Emillie, and in turn, very, very well done for just quietly leaving, because really, that is the the end product of cognitions of this sort as regards the Radical Church of Scientology.
You can be there physically but once you really get it you know that YOU are not really there. By doing it the way you did, you and your husband evaded a lot of drama.
To be honest, my “getting smart” did not happen overnite but was for me a process that went on for a while. I had already had my doubts and objections, I had already spotted outpoints and not voiced them. THEN I started reading Marty’s blog and gained, to put it mildly some perspective on these.outpoints. I was not alone!!! Other people, PLENTY of other people, saw and/or objected to these off-policy actions! To learn this was a huge relief, both a healing and learning process wherein I blew charge! Without this I would not have had the nerve to even consider “handling” Church staff. My bravery came from knowing I was not alone, and that I was not disaffected with LRH’s workable tech but with an out-pointy church management. I was finally able to make that very important distinction which is the kiss of death to fear and awe of the RCS. In short, it was, and is, true, authentic data, delivered then by Marty and his contributors – Mike, of course, and a number of others – the delivery of true data about the RCS now being delivered here by Mike, that made me sassy! What I will acknowledge myself for was the willingness to reach for the truth. See, that’s all these people need to do – REACH! and I believe they will, each in their own time. As I did.
Jane Doe says
Aquamarine, your story of how you cognited and got out is beautifully put! Congratulations to you for your strength to get out and may the force be with you!
Phil Bruemmer says
“GAT II will become the panacea for EVERYTHING.”
Any word on GAT III yet?
No word on GAT III yet. But the dox for Gat XVIII are in mimeo now.
This is a common tagline of HCO, OSA and upper managment. “The Church isn’t perfect”, “Of course there are things wrongs with the Church, but that’s why we have a Qual and we are self correcting – NO other organization on Earth is capable of that”. But that’s a lie. So many other groups on this planet are self correcting. Pretty much any business listens to its patrons and their complaints to self correct. The fact of having a group dictates that you must satisfy the needs of the members and change when demand calls for it. The Church uses these one-liners to shirk responsibility and shut up the inquisitive. The truth is, they can’t self correct that which they perpetuate knowingly and rigorously. Although I grew up in the Church and got declared, I’m still no bigger fan of LRH than someone who was never a part of the Church. But I’ve found it efficacious to use his doctrine as a way of arguing points on the subject. He does say that the Tone Level of an organization is set from the top down. He also says in the god damn holy doctrine of all doctrines which is KSW that attacks ONLY come when there are bad or no results. He doesn’t qualify why else those attacks would come or qualify the type of person it needs to be.
“Of course there are things wrongs with the Church, but that’s why we have a Qual”
And that’s why we need you to give us more money!
I can see it now. Once the new Golden Age of Tech II doesn’t make everything perfect, they’ll claim that the tech couldn’t go in because the ADMIN was out. Then the “Golden Age of Admin” will be released, requiring all to do a complete OEC or some such line up as well as purchase multiple sets of OEC volumes for personal use as well as a whole new library campaign. Then after all that, all churchies will be required to redo the Golden Age of Tech (GAT III anyone?) because the tech couldn’t have possibly gone in with the admin out in the first place…on and on it will go. Thank god I’m off the hamster wheel!
I think you got it, NoEyeDeer. A sound prediction. I’m off the wheel thankfully too!
The crumbling of the Church has me wondering: are all those celebrities going to stay with the Chuch? Tom Cruise is close to Davey, but the others just use the tech (and the celebrity center love bombing, but a celebrity get get love bombing anywhere). If the Church fair games a celebrity for becoming an indie or squireling the tech, the PR damage would be huge. The celebrities have to be embarrassed to be associated with Davey. So, are any celebrities thinking of going indie?
Jean-François Genest says
I have observed that Scientology celebrities only exit when it becomes a personal matter to them or their immediate family. For example, Paul Haggis would probably still be IN if it weren’t for his daughter Katy being homosexual – a total no-no for the Radical, Inverted Church of Scientology. Observe that Nicole Kidman only won an Oscar AFTER she openly left The Church. etc.
Penny Krieger says
Lisa Presley pretty much made the statement with her lyrics on her most recent album that she is no longer a Scientologist and has seen the light. Her comm, via her lyrics was overtly covert. This is not a denigration. Very bright on her part. Apparently her mom is still in and they are in comm, according to news reports I have seen.
Here are the lyrics to one of her songs:
Richard Grant says
Good catch, and spot-on analysis.
It would be interesting — if only as a thought-experiment — to know would happen to the church apparatus if David Miscavige were removed from power, or fled voluntarily to some tax-and-extradition haven. Is it too late for a genuine policy of Glasnost to salvage some remnant of the organization? Or have things gone too far?
One thing for certain is that the situation is doomed and irreversible with David at the helm. Part B of the sentence quoted above will always trump any gesture of conciliation toward critics.
Cooper Kessel says
“It would be interesting — if only as a thought-experiment — to know would happen to the church apparatus if David Miscavige were removed from power, or fled voluntarily to some tax-and-extradition haven.”
I think you will find a lot of people who have no idea how to think or act on their own self determinism wandering around in a daze hoping someone will tell them what to do. May need to go in, snap your fingers and command them to come up to present time. Then give them a START !!!!!
Reminds me of what happened in the Star Trek episode “Return of the Archons” when Spock and Kirk messed with the computer controlling the planet Beta III and projecting the images of “Landru”. The “lawgivers”, suddenly without their mind-control source, were suddenly lost and purposeless, and pleading for the computer to resume telling them what to do and how to think.
I hate to have to agree with you, but it does seem to be devolving to this point.
YES, THE “IDEAL” WORLD OF THIS CHARACTER-DM-IS COLLAPSING, AND WILL COLLAPSE, AS HE AGAIN WILL BE USING A WRONG WHY. THE GAT II IS AGAIN A WRONG WHY AND A SOLUTION TO A PROBLEM, WHICH IN TURN WILL BECOME THE PROBLEM. A WRONG WHY WON`T OPEN THE DOOR TO A HANDLING AND, ON TOP OF THAT, THEY ARE APPLYING WRONG CONDITIONS. STRAIGHT AND VERTICAL “AFFLUENCES” WHEN IN FACT ARE IN TREASON OR BELLOW. SO, FOR THE FIRST TIME MAAs ARE RIGHT IN ACCEPTING THAT “SOME THINGS ARE WRONG” BUT IF THEY DON´T OPEN THEIR EYES AS TO THE REAL WHY AND WHO THEN, IT IS JUST GOING TO GET WORSE.
sets guy says
Chris Mann says
The days are gone where they could prevent people from getting data on the internet. There’s so much irrefutable data easily available with a simple internet search thanks to everyone who has spoken out in interviews and on sites like this. I can only imagine that many people are in “doubt” about the Church and Miscavige.
You are right.
And the Information quality improved.
People still in the Church with doubts want to fill the vacuum and they can easily find people, real people, online now who went through it.
And this site especially points to the real outpoints (current outpoints) in the Church on a daily basis.
Miscavige and OSA can’t help it anymore.
Only thing they can do is to increase the pressure on the public which puts even more public in doubt. The group morale in the church is down, down, down.
To increase group morale you need group dianetics, true data. But Miscavige can’t handle the truth himself – therefore his demise is inevitable.
Eric Alexandrou says
Believe it or not ,I did not know how to use a computer ,I’m still learning how to operate one,my son has and is helping to use one,when I went on the Internet the first time I was scared to look,I was Trembling,I was in fear,becourse I believed it was e ntheta ,it took a good year to over come my fears,I really thought every one that criticising Scientology was a suppressive person,it was not easy,even my frends that left the org in the 80s that criticised the church where suppressive people ,how stupid one can get,I fell for it ,hook line and sinker.
Jane Doe says
Chris, Don’t beat yourself up over this because you aren’t alone. Many have felt exactly as you did at first, myself included. I thought I would have a heart attack or die or go so PTS that I’d wind up in a hospital the first time I went on line to read that stuff. I thought the people who went to the other side were just downstats who couldn’t afford to pay for their bridges and so went in look for cheap auditing, and I felt so superiod that I was not like they and that I made the kind of money it took to do the upper Bridge. What a pompous condescending ass I was! But I was a product of the corporate Scn church that I pledged my allegiance to. When I did finally go on line to read, even though I too was trembling and scared, the opposite happened. I went ext and felt like I had a floating TA and felt so keyed out and good and it was like I’d had a stellar session. I noted this wonderful feeling and said to myself, “I guess it is truth because I feel so exterior.” And from then on I continued reading truth and blowing charge and handling the church engram on myself. Thank you so much to Mike and Marty and Karen and Tory and Steve and others for these blogs to help us cognite and leave and start anew.
Just curious, from the perspective of an insider, what was going on in your head at the time … say … during the release of the Basics. You were an executive of CoS then, correct? Were you optimistic about the release of the Basics and the important of their release? I’m interestedto understand. Thank you.
Roy Macgregor says
Mike Rinder was walking out the door in disgust at that time. That’s what was going on his head. I would guess it was a combination of OMG, WTF and BARF right around the time that GAK was being thrown up on the heads of the remaining Scientology Sheeple (SS for short”).
Mike Rinder says
I was gone before the release of the Basics. But I knew it was coming as I had been the person years earlier who had been originally assigned to “verify” the books and give them glossaries. The Glossaries were great and there were some typos and such that were found, but I knew Miscavige was going to turn this into the second coming of the 10 Commandments and I was already done with his style of doing things….
Please write a book.
Jane Doe says
YEs I have also noticed what you speak of in the change in how the church handles the originations, Mike. When I got turned in for a few “disaffected” or “black pr” things I had said which were merely pointing out an outpoint and wondering aloud about it, the church told the person to come back and handle me with this: They said “well we have had SP’s in the church in the past, but we found them and got rid of them, so anything that is wrong can be handled now since we lived through it before in the past. Why we got rid of a big SP named David Mayo… and…” etc. The idea they gave me was, yes there may be a few outpoints, but you don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Also they told my relatives / handlers that, “what she said she could only have known from reading those horrible SP ‘bitter defrocked apostate’ sites on line. So any time you voice an origination or question anything, the church thinks that you could never have seen that for yourself, could never have had an original thought yourself, and that all people who question are being carefully orchestrated by the “bitter defrocked apostates” in the Indie and Freezone world.
Yes, makes sense, and then have you prove to them you are not one of the bad guys, turning the tables sweeping the issue under the carpet.
A good friend of mine went to Anzo and was asked about ‘noise’ she might have heard about disaffected people. She said she had heard some stuff.
The way they handled her was to show her a stack of documents about Mayo. Yep. Mayo. The MAA told her this current noise is the same as that, back then. They also showed her a convoluted document for a member of Mayo’s group who had recanted and come back to the church.
Amazing that this handling happened in 2013 and has zero to do with Mayo or zero similarities. This was genuinely supposed to handle any concerns this person may have had.
She sent me a copy of the docs and continued with her services, all cool and no more handling required.
Jane Doe says
Vertsurblanc, Wow, this is just mind boggling. They don’t dare handle the real issues in PT, so they go back to David May thinking this is their one shining moment of finding the “true and correct SP and ousting him” and “aren’t we heroes for getting rid of Mayo…” Unbelievable! They are putting up smoke and mirrors so that you don’t look at the P.T. Scene! I trained in the 80’s and I remember at many , almost all musters, they would joke and degrade about the super evil David Mayo saying, “Hold the Mayo” and things like that. I believed it all and still thought he was an SP until I read some Indie things and saw some videos of talks Mayo gave etc. He was actually a good guy, highest tech trained man, Ron’s right hand man and auditor, and DM got rid of him because he had to take out the king pins in order to have his coupe take effect. So my unofficial rule of thumb is that if corporate says someone is an SP, they probably are not! lol
Yes, everything is wrong with the Church and that is the reason to tear it down.
Dirk Niblick says
Does DM know that this line is being used? If so, that sure indicates massive desperation. Then again, GAT II and the sudden push to “really seriously release Super Power” are huge desperation moves themselves.
I also wonder who originally came up with this line. It doesn’t sound like something DM would ever originate.
With all the dono/regerama going on, at this stage I doubt it makes little difference how they serve the tech up. I’m pretty sure they’ll continue to not-is this point right into the grave. They’ve not only nearly bankrupted the membership, but also run out of song & dance to have anyone part with whatever is left in their wallets.
Simple Thetan says
I may be naive, but I see this as a positive development. Of course, it is a long road to the redemption of Co$.
Roy Macgregor says
Dear Simple, I hate to see anyone so naive. Really? Getting people Mid OT VII to do hundreds of hours of ovbjectives? Positive? And there are also indications that Super Power has been “edited” from the original written by LRH over 30 years ago. Perhaps he might shorten metering after 17 years of just killing anyone who had hopes of training as an auditor. But I am 100% certain that there will something new added to the lineup with little fanfare that will ensure that it remains impossible to train as an auditor in less than 8-10 years full time. Watch closely folks, the shyster is work. There will be new internship checksheets or something that sink auditor training just as surely as the metering course.
Jane Doe says
You’re so right Roy. It’s already been going on re auditor and internships. Of course they don’t want to have new auditors– they are competition for Flag. We must send everyone, even Grades pcs to Flag so that we feed the monster — it has a big appetite. Also no new auditors means no clearing the planet. What a coincidence.
Just ThisGuy says
I actually agree with both Simple and Roy.
On the surface, it does sound like exactly what is needed – the communication is extremely well crafted to give the impression that all will be super-dooper. As Roy said, there is another story happening at Flag right now in the Outer Training Org. They have been on virtual lockdown for at least 6 months already – no cell phones, no computers, a call out only if it has been CSW’d. Even then I suspect the call is monitored.
Other indicators that come across unspoken are that there are serious issues with the training going on there. Tons of sec checking, of course, but getting actual auditing? Why haven’t all these kids been co-auditing to clear as they do the levels?!
It was garbage the first time, and despite how its worded and promoted, I’m quite sure its garbage again. Standard Tech at that place is a thing of the long ago past.
Simple, it is not so much that you are naïve. It’s just that you are of such character that you still hold on to hope when everything in the world would tell you that there is no reason to have hope.
Good for you! Don’t change-when the last of people like you disappear from earth we really are done.
Bob Dobbs says
Mike Rinder says
Well, you may be naive, but that’s not always a bad thing! A clear eyed, unspoiled view can sometimes be the best. The very fact that anyone at all is willing to utter these words, let alone “officially” DOES indicate he is losing his grip.
I agree. This admission is an indicator of the huge mess that is the actual RCS scene. In real life, truth usually goes in on a gradient. In real life, people mostly don’t change their minds in a single, powerful, blinding flash. Even if the whole truth is right there staring someone in the face, its still a process, as some of the truth trickles in, gets processed, then there’s a reach for more, and that gets processed, etc. etc. While the process is going on, while someone is in the process of changing his or her mind about something very important, there is still a lot of outward denial going on. So this admission is significant of some degree of actual overwhelm.
dave fagen says
Key to Life was also, in its turn, touted as the panacea for everything, back in 1990. I remember some years after it was released, the ED of our org told me that when it had originally been fully released, that he was told by middle management people that KTL was the solution to every bogged case, every disaffected church member and every reason why staff had been unable to expand orgs.
Six years later, KTL was all but forgotten about and we had our new panacea, the Golden Age of Tech.
Mike Rinder says
Dave — you are right. LOC was another one. “KTL without LOC was never going to work”. Then LOC was dropped.
Let’s not forget the FPRD was heavily touted as the thing that was going to change the Scientology World. I guess the group really needs “The next big thing.”
This really reminds me of what happened when the first GAT came out. It was supposed to fix everything. All staff had to do was wait til their GAT teams got back from Flag. Those guys would have the tools and skills to fix all that ailed us.
Unfortunately, that turned out to be a complete debacle, as is now well-documented. But at the time, it was touted as the cure all. Everyone’s TIPs ad TEs were changed to immediately get them through the GAT (only you weren’t allowed to say ‘GAT’ back then, you had to sound out the full words. Otherwise, it was a Tech Degrade.
This same promise was part of the KTL/LOC evolution as well. All the problems of the org and getting Scn dissem’d worldwide would be solved by getting everyone through KTL & LOC. And gosh now, you’re hard-pressed to find an org that still delivers them.
What a short-term memory problem those in the church have. Every new evolution is always the one that solve it all!! Quick – jump on board with the latest and greatest and bring all your money, credit cards, and take out another mortgage. Because it’s that good!!!
Blown SP says
Constant musical chairs – moving staff around helps this agenda – no one really knows what is going on…they just keep grinding away.
A few years ago – “Command Intention” – ole Slappy MissManagement – implemented the “Dianetics Seminars” and staff had to go and get trained to deliver Dianetics. Also – we were told the great news that people could come into the Org and co-audit Dianetics forever – at no charge – just the charge for the course.
We were briefed that this was a successful action LRH did to boom Orgs. Well, it was a total fail and I don’t even think they are doing it anymore – it is all about fund raising now!!
I brought one noobie to the Dianetics Seminar – we listened to a lecture by LRH – my friend was like “WTF – what is this?” The staff hounded and circled the noobie – and he/she told me they wanted to leave. The staff told me the next day that my friend was “PTS to the middle class”. That is why they are not interested – AND “they have no ability to confront”!
Fricken hillarious to me now – but back then – the staff had altitude so I believe them. I am so glad I did not get my friend in!!
They did not buy any book, stopped taking my calls and I did not see them for a few years. I ran into my friend and we discussed this recently. I told him/her to not do any Scientology – it is corrupt and evil. They told me that they thought it was totally the strangest seminar they were ever at – the staff seemed desparate -and when they got home – the got on the internet.
My friend told me that he/she felt sorry for me to be involved with the cult – I was so sincere about Scientology and Dianetics but the group was totally taking advantage of my vulnerability and trusting nature. They whooped when I told them I had left a few years ago – shortly after the Dianetics seminar.
Near carbon-copy what happened to me. Never brought anyone else in again. Can you spell “burning your own bridges”.
Eric Alexandrou says
Dear Formost,I can relate to that,I wanted to go to the toilet ,I had to ask security to unlock the main
Door to the seminar to let me go,it’s all bull shit what seminar,it was about fund raising ,I was tould to bring a frend,my girl frend at the time,that she keeps getting phone calls at work,hounding her.i did have a win when I went to a senimar in Sydney ,Australia to see the best salesman at the time in the 80s lez Dane ,the car sales man,I think he was great.
Eric Alexandrou Brisbane Australia
Eric … been witness to that too. Like a Kindergarten, one needs the IAS’s teacher-cops to OK pee parole. Any normal human being who doesn’t even know the tone scale knows how underhanded the membership is being treated when they attend such functions. But of course under the pretense of planet clearing anything and everything goes.
This is so true. It’s that conviction of “we have the tech” and “we’re the best” that is inevitably destroying the Church of Scientology. I find it ironic that a organization that preaches a philosophy that largely deals with self-inspection can’t seem to look themselves. It’s always the SP’s that are causing the trouble…where’s the responsibility in that?
“It’s always the SP’s that are causing the trouble…where’s the responsibility in that? I believe a large majority of Cl V org staff and SO’s truly believe this. Let us not forget that these people are being carefully and continually fed very skewed data (if not outright lies), on a “need-to-know” basis. They only know what the Dwarf tells them via their seniors. They don’t know what we know. As soon as they begin to know what we know, their responsibility level comes UP, per the KRC triangle: Knowledge, Responsibility, Control. This, of course, is what the RCS dreads and why the actual facts must be suppressed at all cost, and why anyone who honestly inquires needs to be introverted so they stop reaching and asking questions.
While traveling through Ireland I saw many old churches in a state of disrepair just like the sandcastle pictured above-Just relics of a day long since past.
Maybe the lesson is, not to let things get so bad that it isn’t easy to recover a former glory.
This line was actually being used back in 2010 / 2011. I remember a couple people telling me… “Of course things aren’t perfect, no church is, we are working on it” . I was told that twice by people who are / were very active OL’s in the community – so maybe they’ve finally “trained” their MAA’s to use this line now lol.
Jane Doe says
And let’s not forget the one I’ve heard more than once, “Well if something isn’t right, it’s your duty to report it and fix it…don’t just natter about it; do something to be part of the solution instead of being just the problem.”
Blown SP says
Riiiiiggggghhhhhtttt – and after reporting it – you will hear – “The individuals have been corrected and crammed”. But no damage is ever made up.
If Sciendollary were to actually apply their own condition formulas – what would they do to make up the damage?
The reason the Morgues are empty, no one new is coming in, people leave in droves is because the Church of Scientology does not have their “ethics IN”…and you know what happens when the ethics are not in…..THE TECH CAN’T GET IN!!
So the tech gets changed, re-packaged and re-sold every 5 years.
Those naughty little SP’s keep slipping in and messing up the tech!! It is the PSYCHS!! LOL
Jim Vanus says
People know when there is no justice. In order to remain a member of the Co$, you have to deal with the cognitive dissonance caused by “no justice”. No matter how the Co$ has erred, other than the occasional ARC-break session, YOU must pay.
The more perceptive protest injustice and try to correct the wrongs until they are forced out of the group. Others are driven down into apathy and either drift away or become robots.
If history is any guide, people ultimately don’t endure injustice and rebel! Unfortunately, they don’t often accurately identify the source of injustice. David Miscavige has used this to his advantage by continually misdirecting attention to the wrong Why. He must think himself very clever but his kind ALWAYS end up exiled and alone with only their insanity for company.
Bonnie List Kittelson says
Maybe they should look up the definition for RESPONSIBILITY in their tech dictionary.
Richard Lloyd-Roberts says
This also shows that MAA’s and OSA are defeated and being reasonable about upper management. I had heard a line similar years ago while in the SO. Something like “well scientology is made up of people and they need to get audited so of course where will be aberration”
Shame however that a double standard was applied and it was always my responsibility to always make things go right whatever might be going on and staff auditing was used as punishment and only to increase production, never to help a person.
Just Me says
Thanks for this post, Mike.
These are the kinds of responses I get from my OT8 friends who are slurping up the Kool-Aid: “Things have always been crazy. It’s hard for everyone and everything to be completely sane when so much insanity is blowing off.” Right.
Bottom line is they’re terrified to even look. The concept of there being a very broken Church of Scientology that needs to be tossed just freaks them out. Most of my friends who are still in have been SO and/or on staff. I think the sunk costs are just too much for them to walk away from. Reminds me of Lawrence Wright’s “Prison of Belief” book title.
Jim Vanus says
The actions of the Co$ keep bringing home one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned in life: The “means” are the “end”. Sanity is not achieved by acting irrationally. The actions of the Co$ are progressively less sane towards the supposed goal of sanity.
“The actions of the Co$ are progressively less sane towards the supposed goal of sanity”. Well said.
“GAT II will become the panacea for EVERYTHING” is a prediction which will come true, I am sure. Some members of the church have very short memory. They are hypnotized and will buy it, see that it isn’t working, close their eyes and ears and then they will wait for the next Miscavige magic.