I’m going out on a limb here and this may not appeal to everyone, but consider this: Remember when you got drunk in high school or college and someone said “the hair of the dog that bit you” would handle the hangover? Well, in a way, using Scn to handle the upset with Scn may just work. If you want to graduate up and out of it so that you aren’t tethered to the blogs asserting and debating 20 years from now on the subject, how about you get a good, well-trained and experienced Indie auditor? Go in session and get the BPC cleaned up about the church and related people etc. Get the BPC cleaned up and graduate up and move on. Even if you don’t believe in the OT III part, you can still benefit from cleaning up injustices, wrong indications, ARCX’s, betrayals, etc. So just consider it like an exit interview on the meter. Couldn’t hurt and might help.

Never regret yesterday… 🙂

Lenore, this is something I have pondered about too, looking at myself and wishing I could just move on sometimes and let it go. I often find myself wishing that I didn’t think about it anymore and lived a life where I wasn’t in contact with Scientology or Scientologists at all. I have asked myself ‘why’ many times.

I think it’s because I spent to much time, money, basically my life energy on it for so long. I could have had a very different life had I not dedicated so much to Scientology. I benefited from Scientology to a certain point, which I liken to therapy but after a while it did little for me because I don’t believe in the OT3 story. I’m sorry; I don’t mean to offend you or anyone else who does.

I tried to handle this when I was still receiving auditing but no one was willing to have a mature conversation with me and ask what it all meant to me and where did I want to go from there. No, instead I was ‘corrected’ with sec checks and long progress programs. I was deemed a resistive case and was probably looked at as a no case gain, walking implant, antisocial or SP. Maybe this is why I still think about it to a certain point. LRH said that the reactive mind is composed of incomplete communication cycles. To some degree, this rings true for me. No one would communicate with me on this point. It was offensive to them or just made them too uncomfortable.

Leonore, the simple answer is that those with knowledge of the criminal LRH and the “church” he created feel responsible for keeping people out of the scam. It is having a level of morality that prompts one to help others avoid being sucked into a criminal activity masquerading as something good. It would actually be more odd if ex-members didn’t spend some energy to help others avoid it.

Makes sense to me.

Wow, Leonore! What a great comment. Thank you for articulating thoughts and musings that have been knocking around in my head for a long time too. You expressed it so well! I have had the same question — if someone has been out for 10, 20 or more years and still expends that much energy debating about Scn and LRH and the tech, WHY? Maybe Marty had a good idea there to do what it takes to “Move On.” I don’t have an answer to your question. However, I have an analogy.

LRH said that the higher the ARC with someone, the bigger the ARC break when it breaks. So someone you knew as a mere acquaintance and then have an ARCX with, it will be small. But a lover that you loved dearly and shared your life and most intimate love with and you then have an ARCX, now THAT’S and ARCX of magnitude — because of the sheer amount of ARC you had for them before the break.

So if that is any indication, to me it points up that at one time these people had a big amount of ARC for the subject and that some of it actually worked and worked quite well with them — they had big wins with it! The subsequent betrayal they felt when it went to shit may be why decades later they are still asserting on the subject. Kind of like the CDEINR Scale going down the scale. Great post Leonore.

Leonore, It is common to not be able to see the forest for the trees.
Now that we can agree on some of the trees, it is time to step back and re-look at the forest, in a new unit of time.
Forests, like countries have physical / influential boundaries that are not always where they are assumed to be. Instead of focusing on the tactical scene, what is the strategic scene?
Understanding the sociopath may only be a distraction.

Chuck,
I know you have pretty well written all of scientology off as complete fiction, myth, con. Nonetheless, you’ve written a number of articles I’ve enjoyed reading. Your comment today prompts me to state something that has been on my mind a while.

This is an observation I have each time I come to Mike’s blog, or Marty’s blog, or ESMB or any of the many, many other related sites and read the extensive comments that are very critical of anything LRH or scientology. What I note is that many, many, many people who have been “out” or uninvolved for years and even decades are still deeply involved emotionally and intellectually with scientology. They write on blogs, they revile, they argue, they tout, they recount histories, they criticize others and try to persuade others that others’ experiences are bogus. They spend hours reading others’ opinions, responding to others, writing thoughts and opinions, lecturing, debating and so on. So much energy invested – sure hours and hours on some days.

Others have spent decades in different churches, cults, religions, movements, political parties, but when they leave or outgrow these things, they usually move on after a relatively short period and only give passing attention to their past experiments or involvements. This is what I’ve observed.

I ask (somewhat rhetorically): What is it about Scientology that someone could be “out” for 2-3-4 decades and still spend soooo much time and energy upon it if there wasn’t something about it that was quite special or unique. Why do people feel so compelled to try- again and again – to dissuade others that there was anything good about what LRH developed, try to convince others that they were totally deluded and deceived and really achieved nothing at all? I can understand someone having that opinion, but why so some spend so much time and energy on that point. There is so much else to do in life.

I am not expecting an answer from anyone really. It is just something I’ve observed, something to contemplate. For myself, I spend the time because I did find great value and I care.

“Like” to this conversation and thread – Odd, 1984, and 4a. Outpoints are piled sky high around DM. The sum of so many decades of non-productive or destructive actions, poor products and results, outright lies and deceit coupled with personal greed and self-protection and targeting of most every trained, experienced, respected or loved leader, just scream to me intent to consume and destroy. Sometimes I think we’re living a sci-fi story with layers of reality. I don’t think most of us who really cared about the aims of Scientology can fathom David Miscavige’s mind. How does one understand a sociopath or psychopath, or someone with alternate goals? I think he is operating on a completely different wavelength.

4a, the description “… its a hell of a well ordered chaos!” is perfect.
It is also a contradiction in terms, and begs more questions, so we keep pulling the string.