You are very welcome Helmut.
Indeed, Hubbard had a way to making things stick, and to everyone’s benifit.

It IS simple Tech, and as Hubbard put it, … to paraphrase “if You were NOT so powerful as a Being, there would be no need to take such suppressive measures”.

It is simply foolish to think Hubbard had no foresight for volume! He built the Org Board to handle 800,000+ Staff, he was a big thinker, and he knew his history. That despite his wrongs, he knew he would succeed. And in that success, as a true Culture growing, we could or would of 8Ced The Establishment for a better World and a safer World, (the true role of the SO I understand) where the aims of Scientology became reality. (a dream not lost in many of us) Not much wrong with that, but costly delayed. Another thing Hubbard had: the sense of urgency.

The whole thing of Disconnection “Tech” is with the “wife beater” NOT the whole lot.
How in gods name did Miscavage think to govern a scientology population (had we exspanded to millions) with such stupidity? Obviously, Miscavage can not see past his manicured dick.
Shelly Miscavage? Poor girl, she surely is not interested in being found. Too disgusting in her reality.

Thanks, Jane. Yes, organize and win. We have the best minds in Scientology at our disposal.

+100 on the LRH quote Indie. Yes, we are the ones without banks, poised on the brink to do some real good. Let’s organize and do it!

I believe this is more about the Indies now than it is about Corporate CofS. It’s all been inverted. We are the thetans without banks. We have risen above an avid craving for agreement from a humanoid group. The decent, pleasant things are coming from us and others, not in. I’m not even going to mention who is the more ethical group (and who is not).

The next to last sentence here almost sounds like the Independent movement’s mission statement. I vote for it.

“The common denominator of a group is the reactive bank. Thetans without banks have different responses. They only have their banks in common. They agree then only on bank principles. Person to person the bank is identical. So constructive ideas are individual and seldom get broad agreement in a human group. An individual must rise above an avid craving for agreement from a humanoid group to get anything decent done. The bank-agreement has been what has made Earth a Hell — and if you were looking for Hell and found Earth, it would certainly serve. War, famine, agony and disease has been the lot of Man. Right now the great governments of Earth have developed the means of frying every Man, Woman and Child on the planet. That is bank. That is the result of Collective-thought Agreement. The decent, pleasant things on this planet come from individual actions and ideas that have somehow gotten by the Group Idea. For that matter, look how we ourselves are attacked by “public opinion” media. Yet there is no more ethical group on this planet than ourselves.

Thus each one of us can rise above the domination of the bank and then, as a group of freed beings, achieve freedom and reason. It is only the aberrated group, the mob, that is destructive.”

Hey Lady Jane – YES! Isn’t it interesting? I personally believe it’s all connected.

Plus, remember, back in the day, we, as a group, would actually speak out about crimes against humanity? Remember the ORIGINAL Freedom mag? We talked about psychiatry, yes, but we also exposed the use of Agent Orange, etc. We, as a group of Scientologists, were interested in the well-being of the world.

Lord knows, there’s a lot to be concerned about today, even more than them. What astounds me is the similarity of how the government is running (indefinite detention, rote speeches with teleprompters, use of mind control techniques, etc.) and how DM is running his show. I wonder who is teaching who?

Here is an example of what the REAL Freedom magazine was reporting before DM took it over as a hate mail/propaganda machine.

http://30th.freedommag.org/page17a.htm
http://30th.freedommag.org/page17a.htm

Wow, Indie 8Mill, you really painted the big picture and I must admit I had never looked that big before. Yes, add it up…. GMO foods to make us sick, toxins in the water to make fish and us sick, sabotaged Church of Scn to make NO OT’s who can’t be controlled, and there you have the current state of the union. Maybe DM is the puppet of someone other bigger slave master? Not sure, but sure is food for thought. So the antidote is to come to the Indie world and get the pure tech and go OT so that no one can enslave or control you ever again. And lobby and work to defeat Monsanto.

Helmut!

I totally agree with this!

“There is only one drawback with making true OT’s, and that is that they can’t be controlled any more for nothing!!!”

Halleluiah! That’s what everybody wants, right?

So WHY?????? pray tell, do we think that MustRavage is STOPPING PEOPLE FROM BEING TRULY OT?

Ron also said, “We are not here to make good boys and girls, we are here to make free beings.”

I like that about the tech.

Remember the point Ron made about “A stat doesn’t just stay down, it has to be held down?” Here we are.

Then, of course, if you look at the worldwide agenda to dumb people down, to make them illiterate and sick, why would those powers that be WANT ANYONE to be truthfully (and fully) OT?

So, if we’re looking through those glasses, who might influence a little power-hungry money grubber to sabotage any tech that would create completely OT OTs?

helo ozzybud,

This is a really good question regardless of whether you are a scientologist which is learning and using the tech (form what I read from you I don’t think so )

Or whether you an avid observer of the scientology happenings as a bystander (something I have a difficult time understanding why any one would want to waist time like that )

Or whether you are a fully greatly dedicated, but rather naïve and ignorant, and thus heavily misled SO – OSA staff ( the most likely situation )

It’s a good Question period.

So lets get at it. Read and learn!

About Indies being standard tech oriented:
I am sure they are, and I hope that everyone uses his OWN judgment and interpretation of what good tech is . I know I do and could care less if some or any of the Indie guys agree with what I do.
I learn and get auditing form the once which I agree with and not necessary do I need to agree with all they do , just in the things I get involved in.
Tehr are a great many of great, great indies using and teaching the tech in wonderful ways.
Anyone saying that the tech is very, very exact and un-interpretable, and a small narrow path is wrong.
And in case Ron did say that – which he did , – I declare him wrong on that point.
Any problems with that?
I have more areas I think Ron screwed up, which does not mean I do no believe that learning his tech was not the super very best thing I ever did in many of my life times.
Marring my wife would be the second . second because I don’t think I would have met her, nor would I have made it with her without Ron’s tech.
Leaving the corporate scientology was the third bets thing – yes all three things go for all life times I know of!!!!

Anyhow Ron said in a lecture (I never give actual references since, first of all I don’t remember where they are, and could care less, and second, its YOUR responsibility to believe or check or explore to make things true for you or not.
You see personally I never have cared who said things, I f it make sense to me I use it , if not I don’t.
Hitter said some very sensible things, he just was 1.1 and lower, and surly did not act on what he said but that does not make the actual statement less workable.
Do you get me??

Ok, sorry, back to what Ron said in this lecture:

There is only one drawback with making true OT’s, and that is that they can’t be controlled any more for nothing!!!
You must hear the full lecture to realize that this was NOT a real problem in his mind at all, but a rather good and amusing thing. After all controlling or even guiding others was NOT his objective in any way. He laughed when he said that ☺

I have said it many times, every Indie should do what he likes to do and how he likes to do it.
If what he does works, and by that I mean makes people feel better and have a better life , then he will have business or followers or whatever – if not he will soon be to of business.
Hellen’s group in Taiwan is growing and growing.

Nothing else counts; – I have NO interest to forward the good name of Ron (since he does not have one any how)
I am interesting of doing a job I like, and make a good living doing so, which happens to be helping people with real life problems using the wonderful tech from Ron, and using it the way I see fit.
My mission is NOT to save the planet – “it does NOT need one more saving” LRH

About Ron not having released anything beyond OT VIII:

First of all released and develop are two very different things.
Would you agree?
So, could he have had develop them? As after all I do believe he said that they are developed ,and releasing them is up to management when he talked about the OT VIII and above development .
With all the shit MR. Mismanage is pulling on us (also on you, if you are OSA person)
Starting from changing how the can squeeze is done in the early 90’s to GAT II ,never mind that actually no one very gets any of the auditing action which would ,even if done badly , get a person eventually to OT, and never mind all the false psych flags he pulls to force – reg ,and the supper power, and ,and ,and .

Don’t you think, he would not be capable of withholding the OT levels beyond VIII ??
Isn’t he withholding superpower for 3 decades now??

Like the 9 year old ware hose E-meters? Maybe he planes to use “releasing” the above OT VIII as his last exit strategy for him personally, as to have a bit more spending money on some lonely island ☺
Is it possible, that Ron KNEW that shit was going on in management and that he entrusted the tech quietly to someone he trusted and told that person to run with it when he thinks it’s needed?

And in any case, didn’t Ron constantly encourage us to try processes, and things? YES hi did!!!
For sure!
So, what if some one did just that, and holey and behold he got gains and told others and they got gains and so on??

What about that? What if it isn’t Ron, but works ??

Ether way Ron is not here to make a comment on it, so we might never know.
But who cares? Me for sure – I don’t.

If thetans are indestructible, and ever living, something which is very, very true for me, then surly a little experimenting is not going to kill us, especially if you understand that our current state to our potential state of power and awareness is literally nowhere to be found on the scale. Something very, very true for me as well.

This basically means what I heard a great friend and super great disseminator ,Mark Shreffler, ones said: don’t be so dimmed about what you say or don’t say when disseminating – you cant kill those walking zombies any more than they are already death.
Ron actually say similar staff, he also talks about not to ever be series about anything, so I don’t know why people are so serous about the bloody tech.
Its an out point.
Unimpressed with winning or loosing is the only way to really live.

Now, I thing that should do it.

We are free beings –OT auditing, especially around VII and above really really shows that and addresses that, and not being able to do what you want, feel, or know is just a very funny consideration.
Drop it – you save yourself many hours of auditing and get an imitate search of abilities ☺☺

Love,
Helmut

PS;
if you are an OSA chap, or any OSA chaps reading this, and one day you get up the courage to bust out ( I don’t believe that you need to BECOME aware of it as it is latterly impossible NOT to be aware of already ,since every thetan KNOWS ) drop me a note on how this article helped.

So sad. So many good people came out of that org. Billy Sheehan, Joe Hesse, Sr., etc. etc.

WTF. If Ron was here, I’d be so embarrassed to tell him that we haven’t stopped an SP maniac from destroying what he worked so hard to build. And that the destruction continues.

Thank God for Mike and the other of us Indies and Freezoners who keep calling DM out on his BS and hopefully slowing little Caligula MustRavage down. Oh yes, and the Anons. Thanks for pumpin’ up the volume.

Wendy and Sejanus… Killing me softly, with his wrongs…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eClxA5KO9jE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eClxA5KO9jE