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	Comments on: The Denver Idealish Org Fail	</title>
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	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
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		<title>
		By: Frank		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143243</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2016 01:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143064&quot;&gt;JustLook!&lt;/a&gt;.

Just when was Denver a thriving org? My wife and  got there in Sept 1974, and Chic Chicacolos (spelling?) and the mission he had was doing fairly good....but after Braans, who were starting a Forming Org in an out of the way house) had him declared, stole his building and all that went with it to become the New Forming Org, it was never the uptil we left Colorado in June 1979.  It was the worst org we were ever in. Places we had been before that Toronto, Saint Hill, AOSHUK, 3 missions in the Midwest, The Manor, St Louis Org, AOLA, Chicago Org, Cinncy Org, Columbus Org and 2 Narconons.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143064">JustLook!</a>.</p>
<p>Just when was Denver a thriving org? My wife and  got there in Sept 1974, and Chic Chicacolos (spelling?) and the mission he had was doing fairly good&#8230;.but after Braans, who were starting a Forming Org in an out of the way house) had him declared, stole his building and all that went with it to become the New Forming Org, it was never the uptil we left Colorado in June 1979.  It was the worst org we were ever in. Places we had been before that Toronto, Saint Hill, AOSHUK, 3 missions in the Midwest, The Manor, St Louis Org, AOLA, Chicago Org, Cinncy Org, Columbus Org and 2 Narconons.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nickname		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143229</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nickname]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=29842#comment-143229</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143191&quot;&gt;Aquamarine&lt;/a&gt;.

... I THOUGHT that was the police knocking on my door ...! (Joke.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143191">Aquamarine</a>.</p>
<p>&#8230; I THOUGHT that was the police knocking on my door &#8230;! (Joke.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nickname		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143228</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nickname]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=29842#comment-143228</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143186&quot;&gt;Aquamarine&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you, Aqua. Your reply to Zeemoo is very insightful as well. Jogged my brains. (A loss of integrity leads to self-imposed inability or unwillingness to assume responsibility. People know this intuitively, but identification of the precise mechanisms, the interplay of motivations of affinity and responsibility, and all, are necessary for remedies.)

&quot;Such people, in my opinion, are obsessively trying to “have” what they cannot “be” because they have already effectively destroyed their own “selves” and are “being” someone else.&quot; (That&#039;s very insightful!)

Also in particular, &quot;Once you’ve done that to yourself, to go on, you have to be someone else.&quot; Hubbard&#039;s sense of humor is so vastly underappreciated. He said (somewhere), words to the effect &quot;The only horror of it is that you can never be anyone else.&quot; That&#039;s been so real to me so many times (cringe). &quot;I didn&#039;t eat the cookies ... SHE did it!!&quot;

It&#039;s always a pleasure to read your comments, but with these, you really got a roll going! The aesthetic band.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143186">Aquamarine</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you, Aqua. Your reply to Zeemoo is very insightful as well. Jogged my brains. (A loss of integrity leads to self-imposed inability or unwillingness to assume responsibility. People know this intuitively, but identification of the precise mechanisms, the interplay of motivations of affinity and responsibility, and all, are necessary for remedies.)</p>
<p>&#8220;Such people, in my opinion, are obsessively trying to “have” what they cannot “be” because they have already effectively destroyed their own “selves” and are “being” someone else.&#8221; (That&#8217;s very insightful!)</p>
<p>Also in particular, &#8220;Once you’ve done that to yourself, to go on, you have to be someone else.&#8221; Hubbard&#8217;s sense of humor is so vastly underappreciated. He said (somewhere), words to the effect &#8220;The only horror of it is that you can never be anyone else.&#8221; That&#8217;s been so real to me so many times (cringe). &#8220;I didn&#8217;t eat the cookies &#8230; SHE did it!!&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s always a pleasure to read your comments, but with these, you really got a roll going! The aesthetic band.</p>
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		By: Nickname		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143222</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nickname]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=29842#comment-143222</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143109&quot;&gt;JJ&lt;/a&gt;.

In the interests of visuals we all love, and in the interests of distinguishing between humor, sex, and PPM (Purely Puritanical Morality, but it sounds like E.D. somehow) ... there&#039;s an act in this called &quot;The Dancing Dildos&quot;, with an orchestra of kazoos, IIRC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_Nudie_Musical

Of course I do not support nor advocate pornography nor other sinful acts which lead to higher taxes, V.D., blindness, and frying in Hell.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143109">JJ</a>.</p>
<p>In the interests of visuals we all love, and in the interests of distinguishing between humor, sex, and PPM (Purely Puritanical Morality, but it sounds like E.D. somehow) &#8230; there&#8217;s an act in this called &#8220;The Dancing Dildos&#8221;, with an orchestra of kazoos, IIRC.</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_Nudie_Musical" rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_Nudie_Musical</a></p>
<p>Of course I do not support nor advocate pornography nor other sinful acts which lead to higher taxes, V.D., blindness, and frying in Hell.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ann B Watson		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143210</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann B Watson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2016 21:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=29842#comment-143210</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143184&quot;&gt;Aquamarine&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you Aquamarine,very sensitive and spoke to me.xo]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143184">Aquamarine</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you Aquamarine,very sensitive and spoke to me.xo</p>
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		<title>
		By: Aquamarine		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143196</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aquamarine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2016 20:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=29842#comment-143196</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143065&quot;&gt;statpush&lt;/a&gt;.

They need to make up in hyperbole for what is lacking in substance. Their problem is not  how they write their news but that there isn&#039;t any.

Hemingway had good reality on that. 

If there&#039;s nothing to say about something, or, if there&#039;s nothing further to day about something, don&#039;t obscure the fact with words. 

His genius was in crafting simple, declarative sentences that communicated, powerfully.

Appalling that he was into bullfighting and other blood sports, but I digress.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143065">statpush</a>.</p>
<p>They need to make up in hyperbole for what is lacking in substance. Their problem is not  how they write their news but that there isn&#8217;t any.</p>
<p>Hemingway had good reality on that. </p>
<p>If there&#8217;s nothing to say about something, or, if there&#8217;s nothing further to day about something, don&#8217;t obscure the fact with words. </p>
<p>His genius was in crafting simple, declarative sentences that communicated, powerfully.</p>
<p>Appalling that he was into bullfighting and other blood sports, but I digress.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Aquamarine		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143191</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aquamarine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2016 19:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=29842#comment-143191</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143132&quot;&gt;McCarran&lt;/a&gt;.

All of these &quot;You might be in Scientology&#039;s&quot; are very funny to me.  You started something, Nickname.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143132">McCarran</a>.</p>
<p>All of these &#8220;You might be in Scientology&#8217;s&#8221; are very funny to me.  You started something, Nickname.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Aquamarine		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143188</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aquamarine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2016 19:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=29842#comment-143188</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143186&quot;&gt;Aquamarine&lt;/a&gt;.

Not to gush but I just read what you wrote again and there&#039;s so much truth in all your points.  You&#039;ve made my day. Thank you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143186">Aquamarine</a>.</p>
<p>Not to gush but I just read what you wrote again and there&#8217;s so much truth in all your points.  You&#8217;ve made my day. Thank you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Aquamarine		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143186</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aquamarine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2016 19:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=29842#comment-143186</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143094&quot;&gt;Nickname&lt;/a&gt;.

Superb comments, Nickname - both hilarious and insightful.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143094">Nickname</a>.</p>
<p>Superb comments, Nickname &#8211; both hilarious and insightful.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Aquamarine		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aquamarine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2016 19:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=29842#comment-143184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143171&quot;&gt;Aquamarine&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;d like to add one more opinion to what I&#039;ve just written based on my own experience.

There isn&#039;t any better way to screw up and ruin your life than by violating your own integrity.

I&#039;m not talking about little lies we tell for the sake of social politeness or because you don&#039;t want to hurt someone&#039;s feelings or the dissembling we do with one&#039;s bosses, seniors or others upon whom we depend for a livelihood. I would not classify any of this as a violation of one&#039;s integrity.  

I&#039;m talking about continually operating in life, of living and operating within a framework, a context of major falsity to oneself. 

That&#039;s the way you destroy yourself.

You can lose everything you have but your &quot;self&quot; and be still be OK.  You can lose everything and still build back, and come out ok,

But if you lose yourself, you&#039;re done for, and the only person who can do that to you is you. 

Once you&#039;ve done that to yourself, to go on, you have to be someone else.

Being someone else is, at best, no fun and an incredible bore,  and at worst, intensely painful.

People who have destroyed themselves this way, in my opinion, frequently have a &quot;Must Have&quot; on money and possessions.  There&#039;s NEVER ENOUGH money, never enough possessions.  

Such people, in my opinion,  are obsessively trying to &quot;have&quot; what they cannot &quot;be&quot; because they have already effectively destroyed their own &quot;selves&quot; and are &quot;being&quot; someone else. Their &quot;haves&quot; will never fill the emptiness of their not being able to &quot;be&quot;, and so they must continue to have have have have...you get the idea.  This is a terrible trap, but &quot;never enough money&quot;, never enough possessions&quot;  are just two of the &quot;must have&quot; traps. There&#039;s also a&quot;never enough admiration&quot; trap.  Actually, for whatever can be &quot;had&quot; in life, for whatever desirable thing exists to want or need in life there&#039;s an accompanying  &quot;must have&quot; trap for it, just ready for someone to fall into.

So, I&#039;ll wind up this Sunday Sermon :) with this closing thought: anyone who is truly &quot;being&quot;, can do, and can have, and anyone who is not truly being, is dead, and this latter would include the group within the Church of Scientology who, if they already KNOW the truth,  by staying in and going along with the program with their blinders on, have effectively killed themselves.  They will not come alive again until they take responsibility for what they know. 

My two cents, and its been therapeutic for me to write this, so thanks for reading it, if by any chance you managed to get thru it.  

For those on this blog and elsewhere who kept their integrity and did not kill themselves, it may sound corny, but I salute you.  I admire you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-denver-idealish-org-fail/#comment-143171">Aquamarine</a>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to add one more opinion to what I&#8217;ve just written based on my own experience.</p>
<p>There isn&#8217;t any better way to screw up and ruin your life than by violating your own integrity.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not talking about little lies we tell for the sake of social politeness or because you don&#8217;t want to hurt someone&#8217;s feelings or the dissembling we do with one&#8217;s bosses, seniors or others upon whom we depend for a livelihood. I would not classify any of this as a violation of one&#8217;s integrity.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m talking about continually operating in life, of living and operating within a framework, a context of major falsity to oneself. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s the way you destroy yourself.</p>
<p>You can lose everything you have but your &#8220;self&#8221; and be still be OK.  You can lose everything and still build back, and come out ok,</p>
<p>But if you lose yourself, you&#8217;re done for, and the only person who can do that to you is you. </p>
<p>Once you&#8217;ve done that to yourself, to go on, you have to be someone else.</p>
<p>Being someone else is, at best, no fun and an incredible bore,  and at worst, intensely painful.</p>
<p>People who have destroyed themselves this way, in my opinion, frequently have a &#8220;Must Have&#8221; on money and possessions.  There&#8217;s NEVER ENOUGH money, never enough possessions.  </p>
<p>Such people, in my opinion,  are obsessively trying to &#8220;have&#8221; what they cannot &#8220;be&#8221; because they have already effectively destroyed their own &#8220;selves&#8221; and are &#8220;being&#8221; someone else. Their &#8220;haves&#8221; will never fill the emptiness of their not being able to &#8220;be&#8221;, and so they must continue to have have have have&#8230;you get the idea.  This is a terrible trap, but &#8220;never enough money&#8221;, never enough possessions&#8221;  are just two of the &#8220;must have&#8221; traps. There&#8217;s also a&#8221;never enough admiration&#8221; trap.  Actually, for whatever can be &#8220;had&#8221; in life, for whatever desirable thing exists to want or need in life there&#8217;s an accompanying  &#8220;must have&#8221; trap for it, just ready for someone to fall into.</p>
<p>So, I&#8217;ll wind up this Sunday Sermon 🙂 with this closing thought: anyone who is truly &#8220;being&#8221;, can do, and can have, and anyone who is not truly being, is dead, and this latter would include the group within the Church of Scientology who, if they already KNOW the truth,  by staying in and going along with the program with their blinders on, have effectively killed themselves.  They will not come alive again until they take responsibility for what they know. </p>
<p>My two cents, and its been therapeutic for me to write this, so thanks for reading it, if by any chance you managed to get thru it.  </p>
<p>For those on this blog and elsewhere who kept their integrity and did not kill themselves, it may sound corny, but I salute you.  I admire you.</p>
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