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	Comments on: The &#8220;Model&#8221; Ideal Org	</title>
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	<description>Something Can Be Done About It</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 14 Jul 2019 12:20:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Richard		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-284160</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jul 2019 12:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-284058&quot;&gt;PeaceMaker&lt;/a&gt;.

I listened to taped lectures in the course rooms. Buying a tech dictionary and a course pack might have been required.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-284058">PeaceMaker</a>.</p>
<p>I listened to taped lectures in the course rooms. Buying a tech dictionary and a course pack might have been required.</p>
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		<title>
		By: PeaceMaker		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-284058</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PeaceMaker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jul 2019 22:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=1908939#comment-284058</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283971&quot;&gt;Richard&lt;/a&gt;.

Richard, inflation from the 1970s to the 90s was about 280%, so your $500 would have been equivalent to at the time of that $1,400 on that later price list - closer to the $2,400 then charged.  Also, average income in the mid-1970s was about $8,000 per year, so $500 would have been a pretty good chunk of that.  Scientology was always relatively expensive, which is why even in the 1970s people were having to do things like sell their cars, and the more aggressive (and successful) missions were arranging for fraudulent loans, though of course that has all only gotten worse.

I appreciate the details and perspective, as my experience back around then was minimal.  And, I&#039;m still interested to know, did your Dianetics auditor training including Hubbard books and lectures?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283971">Richard</a>.</p>
<p>Richard, inflation from the 1970s to the 90s was about 280%, so your $500 would have been equivalent to at the time of that $1,400 on that later price list &#8211; closer to the $2,400 then charged.  Also, average income in the mid-1970s was about $8,000 per year, so $500 would have been a pretty good chunk of that.  Scientology was always relatively expensive, which is why even in the 1970s people were having to do things like sell their cars, and the more aggressive (and successful) missions were arranging for fraudulent loans, though of course that has all only gotten worse.</p>
<p>I appreciate the details and perspective, as my experience back around then was minimal.  And, I&#8217;m still interested to know, did your Dianetics auditor training including Hubbard books and lectures?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283971</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=1908939#comment-283971</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[PeaceMaker - continued from below

In 1980 I wouldn&#039;t have been able to afford $2,400 for the entire Academy package let alone $2,400 for each level. That was a long time ago and my exact timetrack  ...............er ............. timeline is fuzzy about exactly what I did and when.

I bought the dianetics training course at the Salt Lake City mission sometime in the mid 1970s. A guess is that it cost about $500. I then went to ASHO and did a dianetic internship which would have been a separate cost. 

Later on around 1980 when I was training and co-auditing on the scn grades the &quot;Dianetic Drug Rundown&quot; was released. It was deemed a priority and myself and my co-auditor were transferred onto it. I had previously attested to &quot;Dianetics Completion&quot; but the drug rundown addressed attitudes, emotions, sensations and pains associated with drug and alcohol use. The purification rundown or sweat program as it might have been called was not yet up and running so we escaped that. At some point on that rundown I attested to &quot;Dianetic Clear&quot; which put me in the &quot;non interference zone&quot; which meant no further auditing, go directly to the OT levels. Soon after that the price increases resumed and I split. So my scn experience is obviously a lot different than most other people commenting.

Here&#039;s a thread on ESMB about the ever changing definition of &quot;Clear&quot; with an article David Mayo wrote about it in 1986 for anyone interested.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/clear-some-background.50323/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PeaceMaker &#8211; continued from below</p>
<p>In 1980 I wouldn&#8217;t have been able to afford $2,400 for the entire Academy package let alone $2,400 for each level. That was a long time ago and my exact timetrack  &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;er &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. timeline is fuzzy about exactly what I did and when.</p>
<p>I bought the dianetics training course at the Salt Lake City mission sometime in the mid 1970s. A guess is that it cost about $500. I then went to ASHO and did a dianetic internship which would have been a separate cost. </p>
<p>Later on around 1980 when I was training and co-auditing on the scn grades the &#8220;Dianetic Drug Rundown&#8221; was released. It was deemed a priority and myself and my co-auditor were transferred onto it. I had previously attested to &#8220;Dianetics Completion&#8221; but the drug rundown addressed attitudes, emotions, sensations and pains associated with drug and alcohol use. The purification rundown or sweat program as it might have been called was not yet up and running so we escaped that. At some point on that rundown I attested to &#8220;Dianetic Clear&#8221; which put me in the &#8220;non interference zone&#8221; which meant no further auditing, go directly to the OT levels. Soon after that the price increases resumed and I split. So my scn experience is obviously a lot different than most other people commenting.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a thread on ESMB about the ever changing definition of &#8220;Clear&#8221; with an article David Mayo wrote about it in 1986 for anyone interested.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/clear-some-background.50323/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/clear-some-background.50323/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Wynski		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283969</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wynski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=1908939#comment-283969</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283863&quot;&gt;Richard&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes Richard I do a lot more than you do. Do you know how much product from GOLD, all royalty producing, orgs, missions,  students around the world were forced to purchase? Why illegally skim when you can legally force people to buy your royalty producing products?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283863">Richard</a>.</p>
<p>Yes Richard I do a lot more than you do. Do you know how much product from GOLD, all royalty producing, orgs, missions,  students around the world were forced to purchase? Why illegally skim when you can legally force people to buy your royalty producing products?</p>
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		<title>
		By: PeaceMaker		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283930</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PeaceMaker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jul 2019 04:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=1908939#comment-283930</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283863&quot;&gt;Richard&lt;/a&gt;.

The claim as I remember it was that he lived on his sci-fi royalties, because he&#039;d supposedly been successful at that back when he was known in the genre.  But he never really made much money at that - much was just sold for the infamous penny a word - except  when followers were pushed to buy more expensive copies of his later works.  

Part of the later royalty scam was that Scientology orgs, and I think missions as well, were shaken down for supposed past-due royalties for Hubbard&#039;s &quot;work,&quot; for tens of millions of dollars that really represented accumulated cash and assets that he wanted to find a justification grab.  That&#039;s the sort of thing that caused Scientology to lose its tax exemption originally, because Hubbard was benefiting personally.

Also, if I recall, people who did Scientology&#039;s finances - I think perhaps including Homer Schomer, who later became a famous indie - also said that at the time Hubbard was claiming to draw no pay from Scientology, he was actually even getting regular paychecks, in addition to those amounts he was getting behind the scenes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283863">Richard</a>.</p>
<p>The claim as I remember it was that he lived on his sci-fi royalties, because he&#8217;d supposedly been successful at that back when he was known in the genre.  But he never really made much money at that &#8211; much was just sold for the infamous penny a word &#8211; except  when followers were pushed to buy more expensive copies of his later works.  </p>
<p>Part of the later royalty scam was that Scientology orgs, and I think missions as well, were shaken down for supposed past-due royalties for Hubbard&#8217;s &#8220;work,&#8221; for tens of millions of dollars that really represented accumulated cash and assets that he wanted to find a justification grab.  That&#8217;s the sort of thing that caused Scientology to lose its tax exemption originally, because Hubbard was benefiting personally.</p>
<p>Also, if I recall, people who did Scientology&#8217;s finances &#8211; I think perhaps including Homer Schomer, who later became a famous indie &#8211; also said that at the time Hubbard was claiming to draw no pay from Scientology, he was actually even getting regular paychecks, in addition to those amounts he was getting behind the scenes.</p>
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		<title>
		By: PeaceMaker		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283927</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PeaceMaker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jul 2019 04:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=1908939#comment-283927</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283913&quot;&gt;Richard&lt;/a&gt;.

Richard, I thought that Dianetic auditing training was parallel to the early grades, and so would have included the same lectures and books - was there really none of that?

I remember that Scientology was in some ways more affordable back then - though it was still a good bit of money for the time, and even now there&#039;s lower level stuff that can be done fairly cheaply, which is all many can actually afford even though the push and all the publicity goes toward &quot;clear&quot; and the OT levels.

You certainly figured it out and split at about the right time, and I also think that being in what must have been a fairly nice mission, you had a better experience of it than even a lot of other people in other places.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283913">Richard</a>.</p>
<p>Richard, I thought that Dianetic auditing training was parallel to the early grades, and so would have included the same lectures and books &#8211; was there really none of that?</p>
<p>I remember that Scientology was in some ways more affordable back then &#8211; though it was still a good bit of money for the time, and even now there&#8217;s lower level stuff that can be done fairly cheaply, which is all many can actually afford even though the push and all the publicity goes toward &#8220;clear&#8221; and the OT levels.</p>
<p>You certainly figured it out and split at about the right time, and I also think that being in what must have been a fairly nice mission, you had a better experience of it than even a lot of other people in other places.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283913</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jul 2019 01:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=1908939#comment-283913</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283884&quot;&gt;PeaceMaker&lt;/a&gt;.

PeaceMaker - I followed the 1970 Grade Chart which had dianetic auditing before scientology grades auditing. I was an interned dn auditor which qualified me to do several auditing procedures on paying customers and I had worked for about a year as a mission staff auditor.

Around 1980 I was at ASHO training and co auditing on the scn grades so I had obviously paid for the grades package and my case supervision was included in the package. Maybe around 1981 the monthly price increases resumed and I thought it was a ripoff and I split. After that I guess people got &quot;slow boiled&quot; to the ever increasing prices, a little bit here and a little bit there.

You seem to be a bit incredulous to the fact that scn was once affordable to a middle income person.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283884">PeaceMaker</a>.</p>
<p>PeaceMaker &#8211; I followed the 1970 Grade Chart which had dianetic auditing before scientology grades auditing. I was an interned dn auditor which qualified me to do several auditing procedures on paying customers and I had worked for about a year as a mission staff auditor.</p>
<p>Around 1980 I was at ASHO training and co auditing on the scn grades so I had obviously paid for the grades package and my case supervision was included in the package. Maybe around 1981 the monthly price increases resumed and I thought it was a ripoff and I split. After that I guess people got &#8220;slow boiled&#8221; to the ever increasing prices, a little bit here and a little bit there.</p>
<p>You seem to be a bit incredulous to the fact that scn was once affordable to a middle income person.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jere lull ( 38 years recovering)		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283900</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jere lull ( 38 years recovering)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jul 2019 22:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=1908939#comment-283900</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283862&quot;&gt;Skyler&lt;/a&gt;.

Skyler, you missed Aaron&#039;s SP … DOG! as another loving victim of DM&#039;s batshit-crazy cult.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283862">Skyler</a>.</p>
<p>Skyler, you missed Aaron&#8217;s SP … DOG! as another loving victim of DM&#8217;s batshit-crazy cult.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jere lull ( 38 years recovering)		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283897</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jere lull ( 38 years recovering)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jul 2019 22:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikerindersblog.org/?p=1908939#comment-283897</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283863&quot;&gt;Richard&lt;/a&gt;.

Richard:
&quot;Hubbard CLAIMED he lived on his royalties but when he died he was worth tens of millions of dollars and I doubt it all came from royalties. To me it seems obvious that in one way or another he was skimming from his church.&quot;
To me, as well, but he didn&#039;t have to RECEIVE the money, just control it.  At the end, I don&#039;t believe he &#039;owned&#039; much more than that bus, but he had the exclusive use of many things.  It&#039;s a difference that makes no difference except in a courtroom -- other than the court of public relations. DM has about the same situation if he wants, but insists on being *PAID* upwards of $100k / year, last I saw. Other than St Hill and a couple of villas in N. Africa&#038; southern Europe, and a few places in the US after Flag was established, Tubby seemed to live frugally -- other than the numerous servants he commanded.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283863">Richard</a>.</p>
<p>Richard:<br />
&#8220;Hubbard CLAIMED he lived on his royalties but when he died he was worth tens of millions of dollars and I doubt it all came from royalties. To me it seems obvious that in one way or another he was skimming from his church.&#8221;<br />
To me, as well, but he didn&#8217;t have to RECEIVE the money, just control it.  At the end, I don&#8217;t believe he &#8216;owned&#8217; much more than that bus, but he had the exclusive use of many things.  It&#8217;s a difference that makes no difference except in a courtroom &#8212; other than the court of public relations. DM has about the same situation if he wants, but insists on being *PAID* upwards of $100k / year, last I saw. Other than St Hill and a couple of villas in N. Africa&amp; southern Europe, and a few places in the US after Flag was established, Tubby seemed to live frugally &#8212; other than the numerous servants he commanded.</p>
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		By: jere lull ( 38 years recovering)		</title>
		<link>https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283894</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jere lull ( 38 years recovering)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jul 2019 22:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283858&quot;&gt;Skyler&lt;/a&gt;.

Skyler gave us:
&quot;Oh My Gosh! Just look at Major Sweetie Pie – holding those cans. I feel a very easy opportunity coming to take a cheap shot at her.&quot;

Thanks for beating me to the &#039;punch&#039; skyler.  Now I don&#039;t feel so bad noticing the cute bod….  AND who says sex don&#039;t sell?

BUT  WHY does it seem she&#039;s thrusting those cans forward forcefully?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-model-ideal-org/#comment-283858">Skyler</a>.</p>
<p>Skyler gave us:<br />
&#8220;Oh My Gosh! Just look at Major Sweetie Pie – holding those cans. I feel a very easy opportunity coming to take a cheap shot at her.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks for beating me to the &#8216;punch&#8217; skyler.  Now I don&#8217;t feel so bad noticing the cute bod….  AND who says sex don&#8217;t sell?</p>
<p>BUT  WHY does it seem she&#8217;s thrusting those cans forward forcefully?</p>
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