I want to sign up and save this sector of the universe.

PeaceMaker – I don’t get notification of replies and just noticed this. Very briefly. IMO Scn methodology doesn’t work without an e-meter. A person lists, for example, six or seven attitudes connected with taking LSD. Which read and which didn’t. Run them all? How would you do a correction list? etc. etc.

Obviously people do all kinds of counselling without an e-meter but it wouldn’t be in the Scn methodology. If Mayo and others audited without an e-meter they were just winging it.

Nothing hard for me to confront from my scn experience. Just like everyone else I paid money for training and auditing which contributed to growth of the organization. In all the sessions I gave I considered I was helping the person.

Richard, theory aside, doesn’t the practical example that so many old-timers and tech gurus (like Mayo, in his AAC days and later) gave up on the meter, show that at best it’s just a crutch that approximates what a truly perceptive and trained person can do – and that at worst, it actually interferes with the process of counseling people? That’s just what early advocates of psychometrometry like Bruer and Jung, figured out after a couple of decades, about a century ago – Hubbard and Scientology are, typically, just way behind the times and repeating the mistakes of the past, and even “mocking up” the failures of early psychiatry.

Also, relevant to Brian’s recent pieces about the “tone scale,” the e-meter doesn’t read in ways that correspond exactly to that, as Hubbard initially claimed – one of the failures that he just sort of buried, never acknowledging much less going back and correcting. I wonder how many similar failures and errors are there in Hubbard’s “tech” that he actually knew about, but wasn’t willing to own up to. In any sort of real, honest attempt at science, errors would have been acknowledged and earlier works would have been edited or annotated, or at least erratum and addendum would have been produced.

And it’s not just that hypnotists and researchers can “install” past life memories, it’s that investigation has shown – like in the infamous mid-1950s Bridey Murphy case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridey_Murphy), which Hubbard initially tried to claim as a Scientology-inspired success – that most or all supposed past life memories, just don’t hold up to scrutiny. As I noted, even Hubbard himself had to tacitly acknowledge, and try to explain away, the classic and long-known problems of multiple people seemingly being convinced of having been the same famous historic figures, as well as supposed past lives overlapping in time (such as someone imagining dying on the Titanic, which would have been 1912, and then also dying as a soldier in World War I, which couldn’t have been later than 1918 – which would be impossible).

And not, it’s not just “haha” that Scientologists were lead to believe in things that were entirely, or at least largely, false, and sacrificed their own and their families’ well-being, and their relationships with others, because of it. Were you yourself involved in or complicit with awful things, that you still find it hard to confront?

Peacemaker,
All great points and very true. I still think that if a law school took it on as an ongoing civil litigation project (like the innocence project and others), the timeframe and payout possibilities may not matter. I don’t have the time to do any thorough research anymore, but I know you are very good at it and will let me know if it’s something viable. If it is, I will see if I can get some movement on it.

Very much in short, the debate about the e-meter is that it picks up or “indicates things” which are “just below” the awareness level of a person and therefore accessible. Figure that out – or don’t – laughter

As discussed in the above conversations a predisposition to or suspension of disbelief in scn tenets could lead in a lot of directions – to say the least!

Once again speaking only from my own experience, nobody was forced to look at anything they didn’t want to. One time in a session I came upon something I didn’t want to confront. I told the auditor so and we moved along.

These are just some anecdotes from my past and historical footnotes. I see no value in the current cherch. Good riddance as it declines.

jere, Scientology may no longer be on the offensive legally, in part because they are now in a somewhat compromised position. But they still have their full defense-in-depth, with the best (and perhaps ethically worst) lawyers money can buy, and a willingness (and the resources) to drag cases against them out interminably and appeal them endlessly, and to try to game the legal process in any way possible, such as in the Garcias’ case.

I checked, and most class action lawsuits take 2 to 3 years – in part because the corporations typically sued, eventually want to cut their losses and move on. Suits against Scientology often take a decade or more – Lawrence Wollersheim had to continue to fight for 16 years just to get the money a jury had awarded him in his lawsuit – because their strategy is to spare no expense, and to be “unreasonable.”

A class action lawyer would have to consider that he might not even still be practicing, or alive, by the time money actually came through from a possible successful case – and that if Scientology is collapsing, that when the time to collect finally came around, the assets might be mostly gone. I’m pretty sure some have already done that calculus, and decided that it’s not worth it, unfortunately – even law enforcement and government prosecutors, including the IRS, have probably made similar calculations.

I think that the two things that are most likely to eventually take down Scientology, are the ongoing erosion of their membership, and some government actions over various violations and actual crimes when they finally look weak enough to take on. Both of those processes are ones that can be helped along by ongoing activism, including the hard work of writing letters and making complaints to lawmakers and authorities.

Kat – The e-meter is currently depicted as lie detector used in forced confessions. In the less suppressive days people enjoyed auditing and had fun with it. Myself and the people I audited weren’t afraid of the e-meter.

Further, facing up to the things you least wanted to reveal or confront would be the most therapeutic. A Buddhist wouldn’t get very far hiding things from his or her teacher. Likewise hiding things from a psychotherapist. This requires trust which scientology has demonstrated it has broken.

Peacemaker,
Great post and very helpful once again. I would also think that implanted suggestions regarding past lives and other galaxies and whatnot were given to Scientologists during the classes. Their premise of body thetans and eternal Beings would already start the process.

How the e-meter works and if it has any benefit in counselling is a never ending debate and usually ends up as a matter of opinion, useless or a valuable tool. Metered auditing was the essence of scn and without it scn would almost be a different subject in my opinion. There are some topics about the “E Meter” in the Categories section of the blog with hundreds of comments if anyone is interested

I can’t think of a suitable synonym for command. “Order” sounds equally nefarious so command it is.

Debates and opinions about the afterlife or lack thereof continue. A hypnotist can install a memory about a past life. So what? That’s a different topic and unlikely to be resolved on a blog – haha

After I blew scn in LA in 1982 I joined a blown scientologist get together group. There were about fifteen of us and we met weekly at someone’s house for about two months and we all determined that our “eternity” wasn’t dependent on Scientology. Apparently some people still think it is.

I get that. Unfortunately there’s no sue-able or prosecutable precedent for me to start a suit ( I wouldn’t want their money- it belongs to the survivors and the remaining victims who can’t get out). I just hate not trying to DO something! Anyhoo, I’ll keeep spitting out ideas in case someone can!