Don’t they get those toys from their winter wonderland toy drive where parishioners donate toys ? In other words they don’t spend a cent buying toys, they just giveaway toys that were donated in the hope that’ll create a warm and happy glow to the recipients.

I ran out of time correcting misspellings so this goes below what I just posted.

Anyway, all of these unspeakable horrors were committed and/or supported MOSTLY by basically good, though ignorant and deluded people!

Mostly the ones IN CHARGE were the true bad guys and the rest were convinced, coerced, recruited by the knowing, manipulative evil ones.

The Crusades were also called the Holy Wars! Think of that! Murder, mayhem, theft, devastation, all committed in the name of Jesus Christ! They were doing it for Jesus. JESUS wanted that Jerusalem back under the control of Christians…sure. The bloodiest, most violent cruelty, the most virulent greed, etc., were all justified because dumb ignorant totally manipulated and deluded people thought they were doing what God and Jesus wanted them to do!

Do you see what I mean? You don’t have to agree but I just want you to understand and entertain the possibility of the point I’m making having some validity.

Jo, I agree with you about the organization but not about the people. The staff I knew were good, well-intentioned people who wanted to help others. At least they started out that way. Its very sad – tragic, actually, how many good people were – and still are – being deceived about what the organization really is and what it really does. And now for many of the old timers, the thought of leaving, the concept of admitting that decades of their lives have been wasted – well its too much for them to confront, I think. I know I sound like an apologist for what they are doing. Its just that, well, its not that simple to write these people off as being dishonest. What they are is deluded. They BELIEVE they are being honorable. They’re not being deliberately dishonorable. They’re trapped in a “Prison of Belief” – writer Lawrence Wright’s term for their mindset and the title of his book about Scientology. There’s an old saying that “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”. Perhaps that helps explain how good people can be so deluded as to believe that what they are doing is honest and honorable and helpful when in fact their actions are as you’ve said gross, repugnant, dishonest and dishonorable. There are so many historical examples of basically good, deluded people doing atrocious harm. The Crusades, the Salem Witch trials, the Holocaust. Recapturing the Holy Land from the Infidels; ridding the area of evil witches, removing the evil Jews who were the cause of everyone’s troubles, etc. etc.

Quite right, it shouts that very clearly, and you hear that correctly.

Legally they’re a religion but in reality, practice, they are a business.

Or to put a fine point on it, from what I observed as a public Scientologist for 27 years until I left 10 years ago, they are a business when it suits them and serves their purposes to be a business (which is most of the time).

On the other hand, when it serves their purposes to be a religion, then they’re a religion.

IMO the Church of Scientology is a business that operates for the most part as a business and that it is a legal religion is useful to them at times because they are afforded protections that businesses don’t enjoy.

From my observations in my former org, the religion factor could be likened to a cloak hanging nearby in a closet. The weather is mostly warm and so the coat mostly isn’t needed but its there to wear for a while if the weather turns a bit chilly.

Everything the “church”, excuse me, Cult, do is tacky. Fraudulent, phony, disingenuous and tacky. A gross, repugnant, dishonest and dishonouable organisation, as are its people. I feel nauseaous and disgusted thinking about them.

Agreed!

Still though, it shouts quite clearly “WERE NOT REALLY A RELIGION” to me lol

Seems to be all about the money.

“Neil Orr joined staff at Pretoria org. He also recently made a big donation to Coastal Ideal Orgs. Well done Neil!”

Well done indeed! He likely gave them all of the money he had previously intended to use in his old age. But now he believes the cult will take care of him and so he doesn’t need that money anymore.

I would love to know what he will be saying ten years from now.

“…madness.” Yes, well, maria mc, the Sea Org is not a sane organization.