“Yes, there are always two or more sides to a story. Sunny’s just happens to be the most accurate historically. You sound like you are in love with the idea of the beneficent rich and want it to be true.”

Peter : I firmly believe that ALL people have the same exact opportunities to succeed in life ; that’s what I believe in , dear Artoo45. A very large percent of the rich arrived where they are from zero , having been very poor themselves. And those rich people give work to thousands. They arrived there, the honest ones, because they believed in themselves , and worked VERY hard to get what they now have , and many of them w/out even having a proper education. Don’t expect me to blame anyone who succeeded in life by his OWN efforts , and to victimize the poor. ANYONE has the potentiality to overcome poverty or lack of desired money, IF they really apply themselves to it.

I am not in favor in making others a victim, but in helping them to understand their difficulties, and recover their true potential to succeed in life. I do not support anti-management movements, and many of the tactics used by unionized workers. I’ve seen what many of them are capable of doing against their own fellow citizens (frequently forgetting about their rights) to get what they want. You should review the history of unions here at Puerto Rico , and how many of them have taken the government as prisoners with their many strikes where a proper balance between fighting for their rights and servicing those who depend on them is seldom kept by them.

I am not anti-worker, and I am not rich by a long, long, long ways. But I always managed to work for me, and thus to control my own economic destiny. If I can do it, why the hell others can’t ? I know about hard long hours of work, and being responsible for many areas and individuals. Most workers never understand management. And I am not a capitalist per se ; I am more inclined towards the co-operative model where every member of a business is part owner, and share in the profits , but according to their OWN contributions to the business. Capitalism is outmoded and unworkable in many ways.

My point with Sunny is that he left out, and purposely, many details about Carnegie, and about what really went down at the Homestead Strike. And I always like to be balanced about anything.

“Look at the recent history of wealth and poverty in this world. Unregulated industry brought on the crash of ’29 and the economic disaster that followed gave birth to new regulations and taxes that brought an end to the era of the robber barons. This led to the rise of strong worker’s unions and built a thriving middle class. These new regulations on banking and commerce combined with the patriotism of the war effort, and for a while prudent business morals seemed to preside over American industry. But the rich were ever maneuvering in the background to undo what Roosevelt did and it took them until 1980 to make their move. Since then, unbridled corporate greed, globalization (a double-edged sword) and the steady decline of the middle class has led us to the point where 62 people have as much money as 3.5 billion people. Sustainable? Not in the least. It’s the cult of wealth.”

Peter : I am not much into economics to be able to competently reply to that. But I will study ALL viewpoints first, and not just yours , before making my own assessment of that.

Best
Peter

The Cult of Personality also enters this conversation. Baseball players getting paid over $100 million and club owners making a billion is one example. I quit watching professional sports.

Yes, there are always two or more sides to a story. Sunny’s just happens to be the most accurate historically. You sound like you are in love with the idea of the beneficent rich and want it to be true. Look at the recent history of wealth and poverty in this world. Unregulated industry brought on the crash of ’29 and the economic disaster that followed gave birth to new regulations and taxes that brought an end to the era of the robber barons. This led to the rise of strong worker’s unions and built a thriving middle class. These new regulations on banking and commerce combined with the patriotism of the war effort, and for a while prudent business morals seemed to preside over American industry. But the rich were ever maneuvering in the background to undo what Roosevelt did and it took them until 1980 to make their move. Since then, unbridled corporate greed, globalization (a double-edged sword) and the steady decline of the middle class has led us to the point where 62 people have as much money as 3.5 billion people. Sustainable? Not in the least. It’s the cult of wealth.

Thanks for the data, Sunny.

As far as I know, the steel workers union’s contract with Carnegie Steel had already expired when the Homestead Strike started. Also there is absolutely no evidence as to who shot first, the Pinkertons or the strikers. There were deaths in BOTH parties of the conflict. Courts of law found the strikers guilty even though the charges were later dropped. The Pinkertons were also found guilty but the charges dropped as well. The Pennsylvania governor (a democrat , when Carnegie and Fricks were known republicans) found cause to sent a militia there to stop the strikers from destroying private property which they WERE destroying. They were armed , and even used railroad cars as torpedos on barges, but you are presenting those strikers as mere victims and as saints ; they WEREN’T. And to my knowledge, almost every striker was hired again by Carnegie after the strike ended, even though he needed not as the contract had already expired, and he had already hired a lot of non-unionated steel workers.

As to Carnegie’s libraries, that wasn’t his only contribution by a long ways. He donated milions in today’s standards to dozens of charities and foundations. He did a lot whole more for others than just donating for public libraries.

As to the strikers or steel workers protesting those libraries, that is well expected, don’t you think ?

There is always two sides of a story, dear Sunny. You presented just one side of it.

Best,
Peter

Peter the post about Carnegie, his treatment of workers, the Homestead strike and feud with Frick, is common knowledge to any student of the robber baron era or labor history of America. Maybe this is why links weren’t included, or the fact posting links in comments isn’t always kosher due to spam and viruses.

Carnegie’s libraries were rejected by some communities, Wheeling, WV stating they didn’t want his blood money or name to sully their town. He was a villan to workers and his libraries were as much about charity as they were about PR and trying to improve his reputation in the history books.
http://www.aflcio.org/About/Our-History/Key-Events-in-Labor-History/1892-Homestead-Strike

Quote: “Thus Wheeling unionists mobilized quickly, and almost unanimously, against a Carnegie library. The steelworker Mike Mahoney denounced the philanthropist as the”greatest of oppressors,”a foe”who gave with one hand and took away with the other.”Carnegie’s library was nothing more than a”disgraceful monument”to a”cold blooded outrage.”Rather than erect such a building, Mahoney asked the citizens of Wheeling to defeat the bond levy,”thereby paying tribute to our murdered comrades, whose ashes repose in the precious soil at Homestead.”Wheeling trade unionist took up the challenge: they soapboxed on the street comers, confronted the city council, and put precinct workers at every polling place on election day. The working class must vote no, concluded another Wheeling unionist, so”there will be one place on this great green planet where Andrew Carnegie can’t get a monument to his money.”?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/mostdang.htm

Such pieces history seem to be purposely overlooked or under reported in history books. You have had a culture for decades trying to bury American union’s history and labor movement, while embracing the “wonderful corporate donors and sponsors” of the world.

Will do Gadfly

Thank you Ann:-)

I will have to do my OWN research in the matter before being able to reply to your comment, Ithilien. But just as an advice ; when you come at any blog to talk the about the reputation of ANYBODY, the least you can do is to PROVIDE the sources of your information so that others can look them up. It is YOU the one making the accusation, so it is YOU, the one that have to provide the evidence to back up your claims, or at least, point out where to look for such evidence. If you post your sources, then I’ll look into them unbiasedly, and report back what I find. If you don’t , then I won’t even bother , and will consider your report as Black PR.

Peter

Brian – we know each other. I was part of a band with David Zimmian and knew Likki at Celebrity Centre on 8th Street – so sad to hear about what happened with her. Feel free to get my email from Mike of you’d like to get in touch.

james – Preparation H(ubbard)! lol Great! You started it so here it goes. “Apply liberally while reading LRH” “Soothing comfort after a large IAS donation” etc. etc. That’s enough of that train of thought