Thanks, Lili 🙂 And believe it or not, you and Loosing just helped me think of yet ANOTHER reason people leave other people – Scientology’s own Disconnection Policy! Applied strictly, what this means is that all the brainwashed, bratty Scientology “kids” who’ve cut communication with their exScn parents have OVERTS AND WITHOLDS on their parents, per LRH’s dictum that O/Ws are the ONLY reason for such departures.

So, yo, bratty still in Scientology kids:
What’s up with you?
Why did you have to leave?
Why were you compelled to disconnect from your parents?
Is the Disconnection Policy merely a convenient excuse?
What’s the REAL reason, hmmm?
Misunderstood words?
Evil purposes?
WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?
Better write ’em up!
Much love,
Aqua

PS: Yes, I’m being very hard on these “kids” who in fairness were brainwashed from birth simply by virtue of the fact of having been brought up from infancy in the cult, but…too f..,king bad, I’m not in the mood right now to be a monument to justice, and my feelings and empathy are ALL with the suffering ExScn parents here and elsewhere who are longing for their children, longing for a word from them, for a word, some news, any news ABOUT their kids, and still, despite this ongoing pain, loving their kids despite this utterly cold, callous and let’s face it, vindictive treatment that was doled out simply because these parents are doing what they know in their hearts is right. Yes, candidly I have very little empathy for these “kids” – heartless brats. Sorry. I know that’s wrong of me.

Brilliant Aqua! Your examples of people wanting to leave not because of O/W’s are spot on!
You being called critical when you pointed to out points from the goodness of your heart and to improve conditions is so real. 100% that happened to my husband and led to us leaving.

It sounds like David Miscavige interjected himself as a Third Party to drive a wedge between these two very good chums, Chick Corea and Ron Moss.

This is heartbreaking.

Scientology as an organization is utterly bi-polar too much of the time. Being in this group is to endure a wave crashing in, then moving back out again.

The trick is to take what you have learned about “Third Party Conflict” and “The criminal always accuses OTHERS of what they themselves are doing,” and related real Scientology lessons to WAKE UP. You must quick do this when that wave dissipates. You get (finally) fully alert and you L E A V E. In my experience, one has to do this before the next wave comes in to engulf you in the “We are the best group in the world” and “We are the most ethical group on the planet.”

#escape

Okay! Last note. If the scn “real” reason of one leaving are OWs or MUs and we have perhaps milions of people who have left, then this us a huge admition that scn doesn’t work at all. Ciao Aqua!

Yes! You nailed it. We decided to listen to “that voice” that told us it was time to go, and right or wrong, at least WE decided…which means that, in the event that any of us would realize having made a mistake in leaving, that decision is open to being reversed. Its called “self determinism” in Scientologese. Bottom line: I know that leaving was right for me, but nevertheless, when everything shakes out, right or wrong, at least it was MY Decision. I’m sure many people here are aligned with that principle. You’ve cleared up a great deal for me, Loosing 🙂

Seriously – blinders? Sea Org members forced to wear blinders outside? Like they put on carriage horses in crowded cities…wow.

Thank you Aqua and it’s always a pleasure. In fact, leaving a place due to something done or to hide something can happen, but it absolutely doesn’t make any statistical number. If someone leave, often – using scn jargon – it’s because the situation simply no longer fits, or there are real and tangible ARC breaks, and in both cases, interest in the subject is lost. OWs are often then used to introvert the person on their own guilt and reprogram them through ethics conditions, with a lot of more ‘mea culpa’ involved.
If you’re out like me and many others, it’s because you DECIDED to listen to that voice saying, “This place is full of dissonances, can’t you see it?” and you have the force to make choices, even wrong ones if necessary. You’re thousands times much freer inside than anyone who has gone through the entire bridge thinking to be free but is still there applauding DM.
There is no spirituality in scn. Stay well!

Loosing, thank you for this response. And forgive me but I am now all OVER this response of yours as regards what you described as the second part of the problem.

First, I will acknowledge that Hubbard WAS on to something about overts and witholds making those who have them separate themselves from those people and groups they have “done things to and witheld things from”.

I have total reality on how this mechanism works. I’ve observed it in myself and others.

I also have good reality on how one can start to belittle those who have been the recipients of one’s overt acts as well as those from whom one is witholding having “done things” to. I mean, I get it. I don’t disagree. We ALL do this, and it really helps make life more pleasant and enjoyable to spot within oneself this mechanism when and if it occurs AND to spot it in OTHERS who are being intensely and unfairly critical, of oneself or of others. Because the impulse IS to leave when one has done something unjustified and unfair etc to another and if they don’t know that you did something one considers nasty or what one would not want done to onesled, it can become intolerable after a while to be around that person.

HOWEVER!

One does not ALWAYS leave a person or a group or want to leave or need to leave because of one’s own overt acts and witholds!

THAT is the crazy interpretation and insane application of this O/W policy of LRH’s to which I object!

There ARE victims! People CAN be abused or treated unfairly and want to leave, and so they should!

There IS injustice perpetrated, and victims of injustice have every right to leave the perpetrators of same.

If this were not true, then thousands of years ago, the Israelites should have stayed the slaves of the Egyptians. They should have told Moses to go to hell, they were staying, the pharoah had plenty of pyramids for them to build, etc.

Or the African Americans who were kidnapped and brought here to be owned and worked and bought and sold and otherwise used and abused – their descendents all should have stayed on the plantations with Massa…thank you, President Lincoln, but no thanks, we got no overts against our Owners!

Ok, you get the idea.

Emphasis on “you”.

Because back in the day when I tried to explain this sort of exception as to why people would want to leave a person or a group, all I got were blank looks. And I wasn’t saying that I had been abused or treated unfairly. I wasn’t making that argument at all. I considered that I had always been treated quite well as a public by Scientology and Scientologists in general. I was fond of the staff of my little org.

No, I was merely making an academic point that didn’t necessarily apply to ME but that COULD be applicable in other situations with others.

And yet, these staff steadfastly refused to acknowledge that there could be ANY reason for leaving a person or a group other than overts and witholds!

Incredible, no?

And now I think that just by putting this all down on paper I agree with you 100% on your part two point; “…they’re so indoctrinated that they can’t even CONSIDER (emphasis mine) thinking of doubting scn, as it’s seen as a sign of having a cargo ship of overts and witholds with them.”

Indeed, they are AFRAID. They’re in fear that agreeing with plain common sense might just give them the APPEARANCE of being someone riddled with overts and witholds and evil purposes, etc. Its not that they’re unintelligent. They’re just brainwashed, that’s all. And I wasn’t. At least, not totally 🙂

Thanks again, Loosing.

Aqua nice comment. The problem, in my opinion, can be divided into two parts. First, scn intentionally doesn’t create conditions where one can think independently. Either you agree with them and make others think the same, or you start to float amid waves of trouble.
Second, those still in are well aware that something is off (unless their minds are just fog and barking dogs), but they’re so indoctrinated that they can’t even consider thinking of doubting scn, as it’s seen as a sign of having a cargo ship of overts and withholds with them. So, they stay silent – it’s fear – having lost the ability to experience things and think for themselves.