Tory,

I hope you see this. I wanted to say that I was really disgusted by what you said about being labeled / treated as a 1.1 due to having Epilepsy. That is completely ridiculous and FALSE.
Doctors do not know the exact cause of epilepsy but do know how to treat it, which is essential to having a good quality of life.

I am a medical practitioner and can only say that I’m very sorry you were treated like that. There is a lot of ignorance in the CoS, regarding the handling of bodies. Sorry if I’m stepping on anybody’s toes, but that’s my experience and as I’ve been told, “false data” that I “got from University.”

+ 1

I agree. I’ve always hated the term “wog.” And add to that the smug superiority complex that the SO staff have toward the public. They practically bite the hand that feeds them and then make fun of the stuff said in a confidential session amongst themselves. When you join the SO, you are told the rules you have to abide by and one of the rules is you cannot fraternize with public, even if they were your friends for decades before you joined. I asked why not? I was told that we are better than they and that we, as SO, have ethics presence and we don’t want to wreck that ethics presence by being equal to them or too familiar with them. It’s that “we are better than you” superior and condescending attitude that I hate. Ron never dramatized that.

Mike,

I was trying to add a little levity to the discussion.

Anyway you are right.

We seem to be dancing around in circles here and really getting nowhere.

Let us say that we agree to disagree on some points and then move on.

The good thing is we agree on most things.

BTW both of us could be wrong and it has nothing to do with David Miscavige or the CIA but actually the Marcabians 🙂

LR

You never quit “countering” Robin. “I could counter with this, but I wont” (but you just did).

There’s always something else.

I can no longer be bothered with these debates. They don’t really enlighten anyone else and certainly don’t enlighten you, so I’m not going to be engaging in them further.

You are welcome to post comments here, and if I see something that I believe to be false, I will either delete it or respond briefly, but no more back and forth with me as I do not think it is productive. I have a lot of people who email me or communicated otherwise who really need some help and I am better served by trying to do something with them.

Yeah well Mike I can counter with the fact that an LRHED doesn’t cancel HCOBs such as 3 Feb 72 or PLs such as Technical Degrades or the Seniority of Orders.

But I won’t.

And yes if you can find the quote or at least direct me to the reference that says “everything after COHA is an undercut”, I’d appreciate it.

Thanx.

I am Robin. The difference between you and me on this is what I have SEEN this. You assume something because you “havent seen it from the “ol Man”. You dont need to believe me. In fact, I dont want you to believe me. Read From Clear to Eternity. If the “old OT Levels” are not the “OT Levels” beyond NOTs, then how come the “ol Man” didnt say so in Clear to Eternity?

Also, I didnt say COHA were the original OT levels. I said COHA was the most ADVANCED technology LRH said he had developed and that EVERYTHING that came after it was an undercut.I am getting tired of you changing the statements and then regurigtating something and turning that into the argument.

I gave you what the “Ol’Man” wrote — you said you hadn’t seen anything in writing. So, why no response to that? It is probably the last thing he wrote about the bridge and what he said it should be. I cannot be bothered retyping it — you can find it here: https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/from-clear-to-eternity.109787/

This is the “ol’Man” — why is that not good enough for you? You started this by proclaiming that he had never said to replace the old OT levels with NOTs.

Do I need to go find the quote for you where the “ol’Man” says that everything after COHA is an undercut? Or that doesnt exist either because you have never seen it?

Mike,

Like I said Mike.

The original OT Levels and R1 COHA are not the same thing.

Also the comment regarding “advanced” appears in both C/S Series 2 and Current State respectively never said that these were the original OT Levels.

Another thing.

Where does Ron say that NOTs canceled them?

Besides NOTs is not an OT Level. It is a *pre* OT Level.

I’m always willing to accept that doesn’t match “preconceived theories”.

Why can’t you be willing to do the same?

Spot on, Tory. I could never understand how LRH so blithely discarded the worth of anyone who wasn’t following his dictums, exactly and precisely. And, of course, not paying for them.

To think that by simply taking a comm course, one was somehow transported into a different realm of human value, head and shoulders above all but the miniscule numbers of “other” scientologists! Us and “them”.

“Wogs” was another of those terms which made my stomach churn every time I heard it. It was a term coined by the empire building Brits to distinguish between the conquering Brits and all those who then stood conquered. (The word is still very much in use in GB, especially aimed at those of colour. Pathetic.)