And all the best as well to you Indie.

Me three, Aquamarine! I just want to be able to do what I can to help people get out (which includes educating them on logic/illogic in general so that they can start to see the illogic around them). Plus, around my new friends, I don’t even speak of it at all.

Oh, well, what must you have said to lead me to believe you were still in? Daft, is it?

Pardon me if I haven’t seen or noticed your name before. If you’re famous, and have made it clear that you’ve been out for a long time, I haven’t seen your post and I’ve been checking in here for at least 5 years. I intimately know people who left in 82 so have been aware of the crap going on for a long time too. I just stayed in, hoping I could change it from the inside out. Impossible today.

Myself, I was going to say to Terra that I agree with her that there are shades of gray to what she posted. I’m out but I do believe that people have genuinely gotten benefit from how Ron put together the tech and, though the person creates his/her own gains, the questions and process have prompted them to ask those questions and have those gains. That’s why I don’t talk smack about the actual tech because people have benefited from it. I refuse to throw the baby out with the bath water but I’m not “obsessed” with it either. It has been helpful. Ron did get worse as time went on and I think he did lose his mind, eventually. However, that doesn’t mean that he didn’t intend to help people in the beginning.

My pot calling the kettle black comment was about accusing someone who’s out that they were going to come find you and invest money in investigating you. One, it’s Miscavige who does that and two, most people who are out can’t afford to do that and I don’t believe they would even care about it if they could.

You’d probably have more reason to worry about OSA seeing it.

Anyway, we’re all on the same page here. No need to reduce our power by arguing amongst ourselves. The bottom line is that, in its current incarnation, the church is toxic. Whatever we can do to make people aware of that so that they aren’t negatively affected by it is my reason for communicating.

All the best to you, FoolProof.
indie8million

I have been “out” since the 1980s and I see you are still not really out as such so as for the pot calling the kettle black maybe you would like to eat your own words. I confronted the evil decades ago but it seems you can’t still fully do so. As to the alterations of the PDC I think he has done much more than just that so don’t come on here making daft assumptions and aspersions. I am not defending the current Church but the original technology which anyone having read my posts eventually puts 2 and 2 together. So go back to school and do basic arithmetic again. Or read the Data Series at least when you dare to go in the Org. Or Method 9 my previous comments.

Oh my, FoolProof. If you only knew how much the pot is calling the kettle black…or maybe you do.

It’s the oldest trick in the book to accuse someone of doing to you what you’re doing to them. In this case, what Scientology and David Miscavige are doing to most people who are out (who are loudly out) is exactly what you say you suspect Terra Cognita of intending toward you.

So, you’re either OSA, doing the Saul Alinski “Rules for Radicals” maneuver, or a still-in who has no clue about what David Miscavige is doing to Mike, Leah, Karen de la Carriere and other high profile people who are out – even his own dad, Ron Miscavige. Search for David “let him die” Miscavige to get an eyeful of what “COB” is doing.

I’m glad you’re here talking too. It shows some courage to come here and interact with “SPs”. I hope you’re also, in the back of your mind, looking for what is true. You’ll find it here if you follow up what people say with an open ear and mind.

Here’s a good one for ya. Miscavige has been altering Ron’s exact words on the PDCs – specifically PDC 20. Look at the changes here in the video below. You can do the test yourself. Find some old cassette copies of that PDC lecture and then listen on the new, CD copy too. But here it is on a video that can start you on your way down the rabbit hole.

And, by the way, I’m out but under the radar big time. You wouldn’t know it if we were standing next to each other at an event…if I went to events anymore.

There’s a reason we’re out. If you can confront the evil, you might be able to get free and be a genuine real version of you again. Won’t that be nice?

Watch this about passages taken out of the PDCs – Black Dianetics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG9X0gEedDs

Interview with Ron Miscavige – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esjykphNZI4

This is true. You can’t correct it from the inside anymore because all reports go only to Miscavige. None of Ron’s Watchdog committees or any other positions are there to cross check any bad stuff going on. That’s why I left. It can’t be corrected from the inside, as it is now. C’mon out. We are pretty good people.

Not declared either.
indie8million

mwesten.

I think we have a lot in common. Would like to email you. Can you please ask Mike to give you my email addy?

I can’t post my email address on a public board!

Hope you receive this.

Take care.

Peter, what ARE you rambling on about now? Your response is totally non-sequitur to what I wrote.

Peter, which of Hubtard’s ideas do you think will be “rescued” by quantum physics? I’ve never read anything he wrote that overlaps that area of science.

Peter, that’s another interesting bit of apologism or wishful thinking that I notice is in vogue in certain circles: Science isn’t settled…quantum physics, dontcha know?

Discoveries in quantum physics are not going to make Hubbard’s claims about Piltdown Man, the water solubility of radiation, or the cancer-preventative properties of cigarette smoking, turn out to be true. His more esoteric claims aren’t any better based, and don’t stand much more chance of being saved from the dustbin of history.

Hubbard wasn’t talking about quantum physics, anyway – even though, if he were on the leading edge of thought of the time, much less had the recall he claimed of advanced civilizations, he should have been. At the point that Fritjof Capra came out with The Tao of Physics, Hubbard’s “work” was mostly obsessed with his supposed body thetans, and he was gearing up to write Battlefield Earth.

That reminds me of another reason why there is unlikely to ever be any serious future interest, particularly not academic, in Hubbard’s production: it is unscientific, lacks intellectual rigor, and is unorganized and self-contradictory. Anyone who had any serious thoughts about looking at it in the future would start out by reading Dianetics, ask where the referenced research and case studies were to back it up – and on finding that they never existed, would write Hubbard off as a charlatan and a fraud and move on. Even if they had some minor interest, Hubbard’s failure to cite his sources and collaborators, the unnecessarily large amount that he wrote and spoke, and his failure to acknowledge where he revises or abandons earlier ideas (much less the inherent contradictions), would make it too hard to try to get anything out of.

I think the future might hold interesting discoveries, such as as of collective or species memory that accounts for the navigation habits of butterflies, and some rare types of past-life-like recollections that are authentic – and it will owe nothing to Hubbard.

FP —

Actually, you said pretty much the same kind of thing directly to Terra a few or more Saturdays back, which is why I mentioned it. Look at your previous Sat comments — you’ll find it.

If I were quoting you directly, I would have used quotes. But I have no desire to sift through your old posts.

I distinctly remember the comment because it was embarrassing, frankly, that you would think anyone is waiting around for you to show up.

Like Mike said, you have a very inflated self-importance.

I’m not embarrassed at all. Why would I be? I’m not the one who says crazy shit.